Fire and Rubble Update

[Aragorn2002]

A module that has been worked on since 2016, people. It's 2021 and I bet it's going to take the rest of this year before Fire and Rubble is ready. But yes, all is as it should be and there's so much to be grateful for.

[A Canadian Cat]

On 1/2/2021 at 1:25 PM, Vacilllator said:

At the risk of being put up against the wall and shot, I just thought I'd say that I've spent most of the last few days playing Final Blitzkrieg (it's great) and so I can wait for Steve's update whenever he's ready, particularly given the above from Elvis.

I'm aware of course that I'm a 7 month veteran, not a 20 year one, so I may view things slightly differently.

Anyway, looking on the positive side of the thread, there are a lot of people who obviously care .

A 10 year fan here. ^^^^ This is exactly the attitude we should have.

It's all find to look forward to something new, report issues and desires but what a waste of time all this bitching and complaining is - about a schedule for f's sake. Go play CMRT or any one of the other games instead. Heck go build a snow fort in your back yard with your kids or grand kids.

Edited to correct how long I have been here.

Edited January 8, 2021 by IanL

[Mr.X]

As a 21-year veteran, I have a question: will Fire and Rubble include a campaign, dealing with the „Pocket of Halbe“, south to the last stand in Berlin?

Regards

Mr.X

[BFCElvis]

34 minutes ago, Mr.X said:

As a 21-year veteran, I have a question: will Fire and Rubble include a campaign, dealing with the „Pocket of Halbe“, south to the last stand in Berlin?

Regards

Mr.X

The Soviet campaign is a march to a last stand in Berlin. I can't say for sure if it's based, in part or in full, on „Pocket of Halbe“. Maybe @benpark can pop in and answer for you. 

[Thewood1]

2 hours ago, Erwin said:

realistic and brilliant tactical wargames

And right here is one of the issues with this forum.  While there are things that CM does that differentiate them from other games, CM is not alone is making "realistic tactical  and brilliant games".  Off the top of my head, there are the Graviteam games, which have a decent following and beat BFC to Steam by close to a decade.  Steel Beasts have a good following of people who use it as a combined arms simulator/game.

I play a lot of tactical combat games, including the above mentioned, as well as CM.  I own every CM game and module, as well as owning several of them multiple times.  Up until five of six  years ago, I played CM almost exclusively as my ground combat go-to game.   But over those more recent years, I have started playing other games as they have grown and, in many ways, surpassed CM overall. 

There are other very good games out there.  But there are people on this forum who are so heavily vested in CM, they are blind to anything else going on.  They have built their online social life around it.  Their hobby isn't wargaming, its CM.  And they will defend BFC regardless of how things are going.  It has created an insular community with a motto of "BFC or Death".  Forum conversations have become very focused on defending CM or BFC against all comers.  The only issue with that is all comers is becoming no comers.  It seems the majority of the discussion has become either John Kettler-like discussions or The Empower Has No Clothes around issues with CM.

I still come back periodically to see what's going on and hope that CMRT or CMBS module news floats out.  But I find myself being less and less enthused about it.  Reading other wargaming forums, I know I'm not alone.  The regulars here think there is only a small minority of detractors for BFC's performance.  That's because the people on other wargaming and gaming forums, who used to be regulars here,  stopped caring a while ago.

[Mr.X]

@BFCElvis:

Thank you for the info!

 

Regards

 

Mr.X

[Aragorn2002]

2 hours ago, IanL said:

Another 20 year fan here. ^^^^ This is exactly the attitude we should have.

It's all find to look forward to something new, report issues and desires but what a waste of time all this bitching and complaining is - about a schedule for f's sake. Go play CMRT or any one of the other games instead. Heck go build a snow fort in your back yard with your kids or grand kids.

Talking about insular community members...

[mjkerner]

Bone is up! (I know, sounds erotic, but Steve posted just now in General Discussion).

[benpark]

4 hours ago, Mr.X said:

As a 21-year veteran, I have a question: will Fire and Rubble include a campaign, dealing with the „Pocket of Halbe“, south to the last stand in Berlin?

Regards

Mr.X

One German campaign is in the Baltics (Ithikial's), and one is set throughout Operation Konrad I-III. The Soviet one is focused upon the 219th Tank Brigade (covering from Poland to Berlin).

[Warts 'n' all]

2 hours ago, mjkerner said:

Bone is up! 

 

[DesertFox]

7 hours ago, benpark said:

One German campaign is in the Baltics (Ithikial's), and one is set throughout Operation Konrad I-III. The Soviet one is focused upon the 219th Tank Brigade (covering from Poland to Berlin).

Sounds good. Baltics would be Courland I guess, and the hungarian campaign is appreciated too.

[Ithikial_AU]

23 minutes ago, DesertFox said:

Sounds good. Baltics would be Courland I guess, and the hungarian campaign is appreciated too.

Just prior to the Courland Pocket being formed actually but broadly in the same vicinity. The Soviets cut off Army Group North twice. The first (and somewhat less well known) occurred in late July 1944, with a land connection re-established mid-August. Rather than bulling back to a more defensible position, Hitler ordered the Army Group to hold firm which in part led to them being cut off and trapped again soon after in what became to Courland Pocket.

Pub trivia - the number of troops trapped in to the first pocket in Estonia and eastern Latvia was larger than what was lost at Stalingrad.

[chuckdyke]

22 hours ago, Erwin said:

To me what is surprising is not the length of time it takes BF to produce product given the tiny development staff, but the fact that BF is still in business after 21+ years and AFAIK the only and last surviving developer making realistic and brilliant tactical wargames for our tiny niche within a niche market.

We should not begrudge these guys from wanting to make some money from MOD even though that surely has delayed all entertainment product development.  My only hope is that BF is making the money they deserve and are not getting exploited.  My experience in the US DoD development game is that the sort of products that BF has been developing for us gamers would cost million of dollars - and many millions more when developing for a government agency.  These products would cost the customer many hundreds of thousands of dollars - very easily many millions.  We are getting them for $60-$70 bucks!  The biggest software bargain of all time.

The choice may be slow development of entertainment COTS vs no product at all.  Yes, we're all impatient.  But, we must consider the commercial realities.

 

I thought I was the only one who was thinking that. I looked for a long time for something like this, and these games are familiar. People bitching about the price! You have the opportunity to study military scenarios and come up with real life solutions in a fun way. I appreciate now modern equipment, MBT's travel cross country full speed and fire more accurately and are situational aware. It is now a completely different weapon. The Halftrack, APC have evolved into an IFV and has more fire power than a 60's MBT. A squad of infantry have their own personal AFV not just a battle taxi. You learn more in these games than by reading a library of books. My tip for the day, select a squaddie above his IFV. That's what I would do in real life and if real world tactics guide you, you never go wrong in this game. Be guided by common sense, like the Good Book. David and Goliath outrange a powerful enemy and you beat him. David the infantry man spotted Goliath (2 T72 MBT's) His sling was The Tac Air Controller, and the smooth pebbles were two Helicopters with ATGM's and the outcome was the same as all those years go. I am not religious, but a good read is a good read. 

[DesertFox]

9 hours ago, Ithikial_AU said:

Pub trivia - the number of troops trapped in to the first pocket in Estonia and eastern Latvia was larger than what was lost at Stalingrad.

Yep! Even the number of troops lost in Tunisia 1943 was larger than the number of what was lost in Stalingrad. Not to mention the losses that occured during the destruction of Army Group Center 06/44-08/44.

Looking forward to the campaigns!

[Lethaface]

On 1/3/2021 at 7:12 PM, Thewood1 said:

And right here is one of the issues with this forum.  While there are things that CM does that differentiate them from other games, CM is not alone is making "realistic tactical  and brilliant games".  Off the top of my head, there are the Graviteam games, which have a decent following and beat BFC to Steam by close to a decade.  Steel Beasts have a good following of people who use it as a combined arms simulator/game.

I play a lot of tactical combat games, including the above mentioned, as well as CM.  I own every CM game and module, as well as owning several of them multiple times.  Up until five of six  years ago, I played CM almost exclusively as my ground combat go-to game.   But over those more recent years, I have started playing other games as they have grown and, in many ways, surpassed CM overall. 

There are other very good games out there.  But there are people on this forum who are so heavily vested in CM, they are blind to anything else going on.  They have built their online social life around it.  Their hobby isn't wargaming, its CM.  And they will defend BFC regardless of how things are going.  It has created an insular community with a motto of "BFC or Death".  Forum conversations have become very focused on defending CM or BFC against all comers.  The only issue with that is all comers is becoming no comers.  It seems the majority of the discussion has become either John Kettler-like discussions or The Empower Has No Clothes around issues with CM.

I still come back periodically to see what's going on and hope that CMRT or CMBS module news floats out.  But I find myself being less and less enthused about it.  Reading other wargaming forums, I know I'm not alone.  The regulars here think there is only a small minority of detractors for BFC's performance.  That's because the people on other wargaming and gaming forums, who used to be regulars here,  stopped caring a while ago.

The only issue is people making an issue out of people looking at things from different perspectives, half-full vs half-empty.

Some people will like CM above all other things

Some people will dislike CM above all other things.

Some think perceived delays regarding videogames launch dates are enough to get worked up about.

Some think videogames are never enough get worked up about.

Than there are people so get worked up about others standing on the other side of the spectrum.  

--

In essence what you say is that there are more games than CM and that for some players CM has gotten stale and or had enough about that. I for one can fully understand that. I was playing CMSF back in 2007 or so. It is not a 'new' game and plenty will have burned out on it or just played enough of the game and have moved on. (Edit: although it might be new for quite some people discovering it through Steam).

Although I always keep coming back to CMx2 and have recently been playing much more PBEMs because IMO it's just the best game for the subject (and I have various other games and tried to like for example Graviteam and Armored Brigade; but I personally can't recommend them). So, for me yes is the best game in the genre and is alone with regards to the quality of play I get from it.
Your mileage might vary, but I don't see the issue with that I have such an opinion.

Besides not everyone has the same social norms. Some may be more allergic to perceived complaining, while others might be more allergic to perceived downplaying.

You can decide to end your issue right now. I for one don't care that people stopped caring about CM. 

The forum is for sure less active than years ago, but years ago CMx2 was a new game. I guess with CMx3 it will be more busy again, as there are new things to discuss
 

 

Edited January 4, 2021 by Lethaface

[Ts4EVER]

Cool stuff, looking forward to checking out the scenarios and campaigns.

[Bubba883XL]

On 1/3/2021 at 4:09 PM, Aragorn2002 said:

A module that has been worked on since 2016, people. It's 2021 and I bet it's going to take the rest of this year before Fire and Rubble is ready. But yes, all is as it should be and there's so much to be grateful for.

Is it really been that long? 2016????

[Aragorn2002]

7 minutes ago, Bubba883XL said:

Is it really been that long? 2016????

Check my post from last Sunday and draw your own conclusions, Bubba.

 

[Bubba883XL]

I never realised how much people judge a "games" status by the activity of the accompanying forum...lol.. 

 

I'd always add what we have now and what they are doing etc is far better than the usual game behaviour..

 

Game is released. Supported for 6-12 months, maybe 1/2 dlc, then abandoned. And left for modders and the community to even just get it working on your out of date OS. 

So yeah, they are a small company that take longer to do things.. and keep reviving an old engine. (As some of you say)  but then I've seen that about alot of games just because it's not a A-list running on max graphics etc. 

[Bubba883XL]

4 minutes ago, Aragorn2002 said:

Check my post from last Sunday and draw your own conclusions, Bubba.

 

[snarre]

release day was 8.1 ? or am i miss understand somthing 

Edited January 6, 2021 by snarre

[Vergeltungswaffe]

6 hours ago, snarre said:

release day was 8.1 ? or am i miss understand somthing 

1-8-21 was a joke Elvis made.

Look here for the latest.

[kohlenklau]

On 1/1/2021 at 2:49 PM, mjkerner said:

Happy New Year, Phil! Did you show your bride Martha’s kubelwagon, lol!

Happy New Year Mark! 

No, I did not think to show her that. I should! Maybe she'll make me crank her out a personalized vehicle.

Those were fun times. The entire CMPzC thing we orchestrated with multiple players for the battle over that town with your FJ troops.  The Dutch town near the River Dommel or Drommel, started with a "V". Can't remember!

Best wishes to you,

Phil

[BarendJanNL]

Vught?

[Warts 'n' all]

An old girlfriend of mine took me to Vught once. And no we didn't, wash your filthy minds out.