Fire and Rubble

[mjkerner]

Aragorn, although it pains me to say this, since you liked my Goum mod so much, but I never thought F&R development was a shambles, and I think Steve has explained things (again) succinctly. In fact, I expected BFC long ago to stop announcing anything until they hit the FC stage, sort of like FI or CW, only even later. So breathe slow, count to 10, play with the Goums, pull a Brian and look on the brighter side of life, then kiss and make up with BFCs release plans.   I have faith you can do it!
 

We all know BFC will continue to make the bestest, most excellent games and modules and packs for us—on their timetable, not ours. And they likely will, tragically, hope for early release only to achieve a later one. What with all the content that we already have, it doesn’t seem like we are really losing anything waiting for the next treat. I mean,  come on, R2V content was insane, just as insane as SF2, and you know F&R is going to be, too.

[danfrodo]

Let's all remember that F&R is delayed based on quality.  they do not release to deadline, they release when product is right.  The big players in industry, of course, release to deadline.  I would rather be frustrated by waiting than frustrated by bugs. 

And Stalin has ordered me to take Berlin by May Day, so it does need to come out soon.

[purpheart23]

*stubs out cigarette* "The waiting game it is". I got a good feeling about this one. Will it be worth the 3 year wait? I don't know, but at this point what's one more month?

 

[Vergeltungswaffe]

I'm just thankful that CM is Endless™, so that I will always have something to play while waiting for new things.

[Aragorn2002]

53 minutes ago, mjkerner said:

Aragorn, although it pains me to say this, since you liked my Goum mod so much, but I never thought F&R development was a shambles, and I think Steve has explained things (again) succinctly. In fact, I expected BFC long ago to stop announcing anything until they hit the FC stage, sort of like FI or CW, only even later. So breathe slow, count to 10, play with the Goums, pull a Brian and look on the brighter side of life, then kiss and make up with BFCs release plans.   I have faith you can do it!
 

According to my therapist there's progress, MJ, not much and very slow, but he's convinced I can leave it behind me some day. My left eye stopped twitching, so that's a good sign. 

Edited April 7, 2021 by Aragorn2002

[JM Stuff]

There are enough CM games and modules to always find back a new dimension, or something forgotten !

Edited April 7, 2021 by JM Stuff

[Gkenny]

Man I need to become mega rich so I can pay battlefront to make a CM Korea game.

[mjkerner]

17 minutes ago, Aragorn2002 said:

According to my therapist there's progress, MJ, not much and very slow, but he's convinced I can leave it behind me some day. My left eye stopped twitching, so that's a good sign. 

Twitch elimination is a great start! Now, be careful of that therapist, cuz they often don't realize that sometimes, a cigar is just a cigar.

[waffelmann]

Cool. Then lets return to standard-whining for the next 2 -4 weeks.

 

Didn't see partisans completed or the mixed heads of the soviets...or the new german uniforms...

 

 

[Aragorn2002]

6 minutes ago, mjkerner said:

Twitch elimination is a great start! Now, be careful of that therapist, cuz they often don't realize that sometimes, a cigar is just a cigar.

If that's a polite way of saying I'm beyond saving, I fully agree.

[Artkin]

3 hours ago, Battlefront.com said:

That's quite impressive data mining!  Not that anybody doubted your level of obsession.

 

Not for nothing but I specifically remember this quote as well. I don't really find it "impressive" that someone can remember something two years ago lmao.

That quote is the reason why you have this entire dilemma in the first place. You guys said this was going to be released years ago.

Having a memory doesn't make you obsessive.

 

That said, I wouldn't have preordered F&R if I had known the ETA was ~3-4 weeks from today. I would have preordered a title that I would have expected to come first, like CW.

[Artkin]

double post

Edited April 7, 2021 by Artkin

[mjkerner]

27 minutes ago, Aragorn2002 said:

If that's a polite way of saying I'm beyond saving, I fully agree.

Ah, well, you Dutch are pretty stubborn, but not beyond redemption!

 

P.S. My first wife was Dutch-Norwegian. What a combo! There is a reason she was my first wife. 

Edited April 7, 2021 by mjkerner

[Aragorn2002]

50 minutes ago, mjkerner said:

Ah, well, you Dutch are pretty stubborn, but not beyond redemption!

 

P.S. My first wife was Dutch-Norwegian. What a combo! There is a reason she was my first wife. 

I'm convinced you were in no way also to blame for that disaster, MJ...

Edited April 7, 2021 by Aragorn2002

[Anonymous_Jonze]

6 hours ago, wadepm said:

Not to mention that GUY who wanted Italy and paid to have it so...

 

Patron saint of patrons

[Grisha]

16 hours ago, Battlefront.com said:

For various reasons we've prioritized open up totally new game environments vs. adding content to existing ones.  We felt at the time, and still do, that is the best way to make the most amount of people happy over time.

And then I see BfN has 2 mods and 2 packs, and FI has 2 mods. Maybe you drew the line when RT was pushed out?

To be honest, I see where you guys are coming from. It's okay with me. I also appreciate you guys trying to be real with us. That is big. Thank you. Half the process of compromise isn't so much the solution but the understandings that comes across the table, so to speak. I admit I'm a Russian Front First kinda dude, so it was great to see RT come out. And I'm more Soviet player than German, so to see it set in 1944 rather than Barbarossa was amazing. It'll be cool to get a mod for this game. I know you guys got to make a living like the rest of us and this is your livelihood. But, yeah, it would be nice to see a mod drop for RT. F&B will be perfect. Can you say 'Vistula-Oder Strategic Operation'?

Edited April 7, 2021 by Grisha
correct 'packs' for 'mods'

[weapon2010]

17 hours ago, Anonymous_Jonze said:

What's a real travesty is no armored support for Brazilian and Indian battalions in QB

with all due respect, I dont think Im going to lose any sleep over that.

[Battlefront.com]

On 4/7/2021 at 10:08 AM, wadepm said:

I agree with everything you said.  But you aren't addressing the points I raised.  Namely, absent FI we would have all of RT right now.  BFC "prioritized" FI over RT based on the input of one person. 

Whoa, now there's a load of BS   We did CMFI because we wanted to do CMFI.  And based on sales figures, our customers wanted us to do it as well.  

Quote

Was there anyone on this board clamoring for FI over RT?  Was there anyone within BFC who wanted FI over RT? 

Sure... all of us wanted to do CMFI, otherwise we wouldn't have done it.  It also fit into our development strategy and was a great fit for us strategically.  So yeah, we were all on board very enthusiastically.  And if we hadn't done CMFI at that point, we probably would have done CMBS or CMFB that much sooner.

Fortress Italy didn't get in the way of RT content any more than Black Sea, Final Blitzkrieg, Shock Force 2, or Cold War did.  We also did two Modules and a Pack for CMBN and a Pack for Black Sea.  Two additional Engine Upgrades came out since CMRT too.  And other stuff, like our contract with Her Majesty (still haven't met her!).  

Quote

Steve has said on several occasions that he is an east front guy and even he couldn't get what he wanted.

Oh, if I had wanted to prioritize CMRT over the other stuff that is what would have happened.  I wear a pretty big set of pants around BFC   Leadership is not about doing what you want for your own reasons, it's about doing what's best for the whole.  I'm an Eastern Front guy, but not to the exclusion of everything else.

Quote

I just wish they would have let us know there was bidding war for modules to let us put together a package...

Trust me, if this is how we went about making development decisions CMRT Base Game wouldn't have been developed as early as it was.  Hmmm... I'd guess we'd just be getting around to it now, in fact.  Eastern Front fans never have, and never will, understand where they fit into the overall popularity spectrum.

On 4/7/2021 at 2:53 PM, Grisha said:

And then I see BfN has 2 mods and 2 packs, and FI has 2 mods. Maybe you drew the line when RT was pushed out?

Our thinking was that Rome to Victory established units that were needed for both Final Blitzkrieg and Red Thunder.  On paper it made sense to do it that way.  In reality it turned out that Gustav Line was a LOT more work than we thought it would be.  If I had to do anything over again I would likely have done Final Blitzkrieg first, then Fire & Rubble, and then Gustav Line.

That's the problem with wisdom gained from doing stuff... you have to do stuff first before you gain the wisdom

Quote

To be honest, I see where you guys are coming from. It's okay with me. I also appreciate you guys trying to be real with us. That is big. Thank you. Half the process of compromise isn't so much the solution but the understandings that comes across the table, so to speak. I admit I'm a Russian Front First kinda dude, so it was great to see RT come out. And I'm more Soviet player than German, so to see it set in 1944 rather than Barbarossa was amazing. It'll be cool to get a mod for this game. I know you guys got to make a living like the rest of us and this is your livelihood. But, yeah, it would be nice to see a mod drop for RT. F&B will be perfect. Can you say 'Vistula-Oder Strategic Operation'?

Barbarossa would be a massive, huge, incredibly hard slog to get done because we have practically nothing needed for that setting other than the terrain.  And for sales?  Well.  We don't think it would be strong enough to justify that major an effort.  Same thing for Western Front 1940.  Just too much work for too little customer interest.

Steve

[kohlenklau]

3 minutes ago, Battlefront.com said:

Barbarossa would be a massive, huge, incredibly hard slog to get done because we have practically nothing needed for that setting other than the terrain.  And for sales?  Well.  We don't think it would be strong enough to justify that major an effort.  Same thing for Western Front 1940.  Just too much work for too little customer interest.

Could/would you/BFC ever do a "limited scope" vehicle and weapon module of 1940/1941 mdr's with no TOE updates to allow some fan based modding for the early war periods?

[Vacillator]

6 minutes ago, Battlefront.com said:

Barbarossa would be a massive, huge, incredibly hard slog to get done because we have practically nothing needed for that setting other than the terrain.  And for sales?  Well.  We don't think it would be strong enough to justify that major an effort.  Same thing for Western Front 1940.  Just too much work for too little customer interest.

Steve

But Steve, I'll pre-order both now .

[weapon2010]

24 minutes ago, Battlefront.com said:

And for sales?  Well.  We don't think it would be strong enough to justify that major an effort.  Same thing for Western Front 1940.  Just too much work for too little customer interest.

 Could'nt you just charge double ?say 120$ for a France 1940 game?you would only need half the units sold to reep the same $, and I'm just the type of maniac to pay that, and Im sure more would to get the niche within the niche game they want.

[JM Stuff]

22 minutes ago, Battlefront.com said:

 

Barbarossa would be a massive, huge, incredibly hard slog to get done because we have practically nothing needed for that setting other than the terrain.  And for sales?  Well.  We don't think it would be strong enough to justify that major an effort.  Same thing for Western Front 1940.  Just too much work for too little customer interest.

Steve

I think if you could realize the two separate fronts, you would have more people interested to an early war,
there are multiple countries involved from this time, mean also to include, horses, and some vehicles or guns used from 1914 18 !

[Grisha]

35 minutes ago, Battlefront.com said:

Our thinking was that Gustav Line established units that were needed for both Final Blitzkrieg and Red Thunder.  On paper it made sense to do it that way.  In reality it turned out that Gustav Line was a LOT more work than we thought it would be.  If I had to do anything over again I would likely have done Final Blitzkrieg first, then Fire & Rubble, and then Gustav Line.

That's the problem with wisdom gained from doing stuff... you have to do stuff first before you gain the wisdom

Barbarossa would be a massive, huge, incredibly hard slog to get done because we have practically nothing needed for that setting other than the terrain.  And for sales?  Well.  We don't think it would be strong enough to justify that major an effort.  Same thing for Western Front 1940.  Just too much work for too little customer interest.

Steve

Actually reading the process from your end puts this into perspective. It makes sense too. Thank you and looking forward to F&R!

[wadepm]

37 minutes ago, Battlefront.com said:

And based on sales figures, our customers wanted us to do it as well.  

To be fair Steve, we buy everything you guys put out.  I bought all of the FI stuff, even though I'm not that interested in that theater.  But I thought it would help keeping you going and you would some day be able to do Barbarossa. I can see now that that ain't going to happen... 

[Grisha]

And for what it's worth, if there was any other theater I would have picked aside from Russian front, it would be Italian front. That's almost never done and it did sound extremely interesting when word first came out. Normandy is great, but the idea of moving to Italy/Sicily was even more interesting than North Africa. My personal opinion.