Fire and Rubble

[Glubokii Boy]

59 minutes ago, umlaut said:

I dont know if that means that the average CM player is 53 today?
 

I'm younger

[Vergeltungswaffe]

1 hour ago, Battlefront.com said:

...Kinda like a dented, scratched up Ferrari with one cylinder misfiring is still going to get a lot more attention from car enthusiasts than a really nice Volvo

That's the problem.  I love the Western Front, but it's the Volvo.

The Eastern Front is a BMW.

[Ithikial_AU]

4 hours ago, BFCElvis said:

Since our store does not require anyone to enter their age this is purely anecdotal........

I remember being around for the CMBO demo and release days and felt the odd one out being a teenager at the time. Had to borrow my mum's credit card and everything. Then there was the long wait for the package to be shipped with the CD and manual, watching the forums as members posted they'd received there copy. I can't remember if there was a download option but it probably wasn't viable on 56k dial up.

1 hour ago, Battlefront.com said:

As I said, CMBN's total unit sales TOWERS over all the rest and shows no sign of slowing down.

Steve

Hazy memory on this one but IIRC, you've said in the past nationalities probably play a part in base game sales numbers particularly in the US where they seem to favour playing a game with their own country being present. Still the case? Is this part of the reason CM2 doesn't go to North Africa because the US 'chunk' is relatively small in terms of dates and forces?

[Aragorn2002]

12 hours ago, Glubokii Boy said:

I'm sorry but this just isn't true...Why should these demands all of a sudden be the case with any pre 1943 Eastern front games when that in no way has been the case previously.

The first Normandy game came with very limited forces, the first Shockforce game came with limited forces, CMFI came with limited forces, RT came with limited forces...as well as limited timeframes.

Why would a pre 1943 Eastern front game all of a sudden need to include all of the stuff right from the get go ? Things like minor nations would be perfectly fine as additional modules like in all the other game families.

 

I think you're making an excellent point here. One of the reasons CMRT didn't sell as well as CMBN is that the forces and timeframe are very limited.

[Aragorn2002]

12 hours ago, Battlefront.com said:

The problem is that for a 1941-1942 game pretty much all of the units and organizations have to be created from scratch.  Limiting the scope of forces for both sides certainly reduces how much new stuff we have to come up with, but the minimum is still a large amount of work for (in our view) a questionable return for our time.  Again, it's not just about sales it is also about what else we could be doing with our time.  I bet we could do better with Space Lobsters.  And yes, I really would like to do something like that sometime before I call it quits on doing games.

Steve

I really hope Slitherine has another point of view and will have some say in it.

If done properly Blitzkrieg 1939-1940, North Africa/Tunesia and Barbarossa-Stalingrad would be bestsellers, of that I'm sure.

Edited April 9, 2021 by Aragorn2002

[Aragorn2002]

1 hour ago, Ithikial_AU said:

Hazy memory on this one but IIRC, you've said in the past nationalities probably play a part in base game sales numbers particularly in the US where they seem to favour playing a game with their own country being present. Still the case? Is this part of the reason CM2 doesn't go to North Africa because the US 'chunk' is relatively small in terms of dates and forces?

Of that I am convinced. CM is US orientated, which is perfectly understandable since it's a US company, but I think there's some difference in what most Americans would like to see released and what most Europeans/Asians would like to see. CMBN for example started with the US forces, although the Brits bore the brunt of the fighting in Normandy (no disrespect to the bravery and sacrificies of the US forces intended). But it probably would have been a commercial disaster in the US, when the base game only had contained Brits/Canadians.

The same goes for Cold War. Most Europeans, including myself, are very happy with it, but only because it means sooner or later it will bring other NATO forces. If it would only be US and USSR and nothing else, I would be less enthusiastic.

But hey, it's fine that a US company first serves it's own public, as long as other countries also can join the que. Hopefully the day will come that all theaters of war have their own game. It's perhaps also worth considering to adopt the strategy of Panzer Campaigns and produce modules about certain battles or periods (Kiev 1943 this year btw and two other eastern front titles), although I realize for CM that would mean much more work than for a relatively simple concept as Panzer Campaigns.

Edited April 9, 2021 by Aragorn2002

[chuckdyke]

CM has never done a Pacific Campaign. A shame because whether UTAH or OMAHA there was not a single US Marine. This left out unit, deserves their own game. The Aussies also don't get a mention in any of the games. Guadalcanal, Kokoda Trail, Burma among a few others could keep us going for years.  

[Aragorn2002]

1 hour ago, chuckdyke said:

CM has never done a Pacific Campaign. A shame because whether UTAH or OMAHA there was not a single US Marine. This left out unit, deserves their own game. The Aussies also don't get a mention in any of the games. Guadalcanal, Kokoda Trail, Burma among a few others could keep us going for years.  

Yes, the Brits and Australians in Burma 1944! That would be epic. Much overlooked, but extremely brutal fighting.

A Pacific game would be a nice break from Europe/Russia.

Edited April 9, 2021 by Aragorn2002

[chuckdyke]

5 minutes ago, Aragorn2002 said:

Brits in Birma.

Our spelling is Burma Merrill's Marauders the good old days when HO Chi Minh and the Yanks were still mates. Yes, let's not forget the Chinese either. 

[chuckdyke]

16 minutes ago, Aragorn2002 said:

Australians in Burma 1944

Maybe some specialist but I don't know of any extended presence. It was mostly British and British Indian troops. The British Indian Units had some of the highest trained engineer units in the 2nd WW2. Their most well-known innovation was the Bangalore Torpedo imagine D-Day without it. 

[Aragorn2002]

2 minutes ago, chuckdyke said:

Maybe some specialist but I don't know of any extended presence. It was mostly British and British Indian troops. The British Indian Units had some of the highest trained engineer units in the 2nd WW2. Their most well-known innovation was the Bangalore Torpedo imagine D-Day without it. 

It would finally give us Ghurkas!

[chuckdyke]

1 minute ago, Aragorn2002 said:

It would finally give us Ghurkas!

They should have been included in Fortress Italy, a wicked sense of humor they had. Found three sleeping German sentries decapitated two and let the third one live. Just to see his reaction when he woke up. 

[Malaspina]

On 4/7/2021 at 10:35 PM, Battlefront.com said:

Barbarossa would be a massive, huge, incredibly hard slog to get done because we have practically nothing needed for that setting other than the terrain.  And for sales?  Well.  We don't think it would be strong enough to justify that major an effort.  Same thing for Western Front 1940.  Just too much work for too little customer interest.

Steve

Long-time Italian happy customer here, and I couldn't be happier with RtV and Gustav Line, but this is difficult news to digest. It is hard to believe that a CMRT: Barbarossa or Stalingrad module wouldn't be appreciated by the market.

Or even "Little Saturn". It would be little: only Hungarians, Romanians and Italians to add to the game. That's nothing compared to RtV

[chuckdyke]

30 minutes ago, Aragorn2002 said:

A Pacific game would be a nice break from Europe/Russia.

M4 Sherman vs the Japanese tanks a little like Tiger =s vs Shermans in Europe. 

[chuckdyke]

3 minutes ago, Malaspina said:

Hungarians, Romanians and Italians to add to the game.

You better take up the hobby of modding and scenario designing. 

[Aragorn2002]

14 minutes ago, chuckdyke said:

They should have been included in Fortress Italy, a wicked sense of humor they had. Found three sleeping German sentries decapitated two and let the third one live. Just to see his reaction when he woke up. 

Hmm, that would have brought any Fallschirmjäger or Landser before the court martial during the war and on the gallows after the war, but okay.

Edited April 9, 2021 by Aragorn2002

[chuckdyke]

3 minutes ago, Aragorn2002 said:

Hmm, that would have brought any Fallschirmjäger or Landser before the court martial during the war and on the gallows after the war, but okay.

The only thing in common with Switzerland and Geneva were the conventions originated and Nepal. The mountains in Nepal are higher. 

[BletchleyGeek]

35 minutes ago, chuckdyke said:

The only thing in common with Switzerland and Geneva were the conventions originated and Nepal. The mountains in Nepal are higher. 

 

[Bulletpoint]

3 hours ago, Aragorn2002 said:

Hmm, that would have brought any Fallschirmjäger or Landser before the court martial during the war and on the gallows after the war, but okay.

I don't think there's any convention against killing sleeping enemy soldiers?

The whole gurkha thing is probably a bit exaggerated though. Every army needs a "super soldier" myth.

Edited April 9, 2021 by Bulletpoint

[chuckdyke]

5 minutes ago, Bulletpoint said:

Every army needs a "super soldier" myth.

They were on a recon infiltrated, egressed and decided on a shock tactic to delay a pursuit. They succeeded as they made their way back. I don't have a reason not to disbelieve it. 

[Aragorn2002]

23 minutes ago, Bulletpoint said:

I don't think there's any convention against killing sleeping enemy soldiers?

The whole gurkha thing is probably a bit exaggerated though. Every army needs a "super soldier" myth.

Killing no, but decapitating is somewhat overdone, wouldn't you say?

 

[kohlenklau]

4 hours ago, chuckdyke said:

You better take up the hobby of modding and scenario designing. 

@Malaspina I got you covered!

CMRT Finnish Mod was done back in 2016 and will have more content after F&R

CMRT Hungarian Mod was done back in 2016 but needs an overhaul and formal scenarios...

CMRT Romanian Mod is now out as a beta with more content coming, new scenario due out this week...

CMRT Italy Mod is in the planning phases, due sometime this year...

CMRT Spanish Blue Division, I am looking for voice actors, in the planning phases

My old gripe: For all the you forum folks who want "eggs benedict" at the breakfast bar, how about you come over a bit early and help make the damn eggs! 

Translation: These mods could use folks that are interested in the "east front minor axis nations" to volunteer by sending me a PM, look at what we have created, understand our limitations in what we can present in the mod and then hopefully accept that and decide to "help pull the wagon" and make a small scenario to help the whole community.

[chuckdyke]

23 minutes ago, Aragorn2002 said:

Killing no, but decapitating is somewhat overdone, wouldn't you say?

 

Sad but decapitating is the oldest in the book. Goes back to David and Goliath. Designed to shock, ISIS is not doing anything new. Imagine walking in a room to be interrogated and the head of one of your comrades looks up to you from an old newspaper. Our allies from Nepal are from little farming communities, used to slaughter and skin animals by the age of 12. We stick to wargaming here and leave out the real micromanagement.  

[Bulletpoint]

37 minutes ago, Aragorn2002 said:

Killing no, but decapitating is somewhat overdone, wouldn't you say?

 

Looked into this out of curiosity, and it seems decapitating dead bodies is actually considered against the additional protocol to the Geneva Convention, but that was only adopted in 1949.

That's the legality of it. Whether it's immoral to cut off a head of a dead enemy.. well I don't know. Throwing a grenade into his foxhole while he's sleeping is also pretty brutal, as is cutting his throat (but not cutting off his head), shooting him, etc.

The thing in the story I could object to is the apparent sadism in sparing one of the Germans only to torment him with the sight of his decapitated comrades. Then again, I'd rather be that guy than the ones without a head.

Edited April 9, 2021 by Bulletpoint

[chuckdyke]

Decapitating on an industrial scale was introduced during the French revolution it is shocking and macabre but relatively painless. We are faced with it again as the likes of ISIS use it to shock on social media.