Fire and Rubble

[Battlefront.com]

52 minutes ago, danfrodo said:

There are people that would not be excited by eastern front 41-43???  Definitely surprised to hear that.

Classic East Front fan statement Keep in mind that a Barbarossa game would petty much be 1941 only (not much changed in Winter 41/42).  The most cross over potential for non-Eastern Front wargamers is 1944 because people are familiar with the German stuff and the Soviet stuff is dead sexy.  Next is summer 1943 because, once again, the German forces are recognizable.  Any earlier and people start to feel out of their element completely.

Quote

So what does get the most folks excited?  Modern? 

Normandy timeframe is by far the most popular subject matter for pretty much anything war themed.  For us Modern is definitely #2.  I'd say that's very true for things like FPS as well.  But for traditional wargaming, Eastern Front is likely #2.  If I remember correctly, that was true for Avalon Hill's stuff as well.  At least I that's what I recall from discussions when I went down to Avalon Hill HQ and met with the two founders.  That was so long ago that the equivalent of the Internet was just two soup cans connected by string, so my memory is a bit fuzzy about the details.

Steve

[purpheart23]

It's a good time to be an eastern front fan, GG's WitE 2 just came out, currently waiting on that sweet sweet manual, and Fire and Rubble should be out "soon" ^tm.

[chuckdyke]

Maybe open for discussion. No 'Pre-Orders' till a date is set to make the game actually available. 

[Battlefront.com]

I did a quick poke into our Base Game only sales and CMBN towers above all, CMSF1 is not too far behind.  The next three slots are pretty closely grouped by CMFI, CMBS, and CMRT (in that order).  This is interesting because CMRT has been out the longest and CMBS is the shortest, with CMFI right in the middle.  If I adjusted a bit for similar sales periods the rankings might be closer to CMBS, CMFI, and CMRT.

CMFB follows CMRT reasonably closely even though it has been for sale significantly less time.  Even though CMSF2 is our most recent game it's up there with CMBS (released 4 years earlier) with CMSF1 Upgrades factored in, closer to CMFB (released 2 years earlier) without.  CMA is not surprisingly last on the list.

The conclusion from this is what we'd expect.  Normandy is top dog by a huge margin and pretty clearly Modern is the next most popular topic.  Red Thunder does good, solid sales... but it isn't the game that's keeping our lights on.

Steve

[Battlefront.com]

45 minutes ago, chuckdyke said:

Maybe open for discussion. No 'Pre-Orders' till a date is set to make the game actually available. 

Then there would be no pre-orders because we never know when the game will be done until it's done.  We refuse to ship  a game until it's ready.  Shipping games, ready or not, based on an arbitrary date plucked out of thin air is a horrible concept.

The beauty is people can do this right now.  Just pretend pre-orders don't exist and order only after we start shipping.  Problem solved

Steve

[chuckdyke]

1 minute ago, Battlefront.com said:

The beauty is people can do this right now.  Just pretend pre-orders don't exist and order only after we start shipping.  Problem solved

That is what I am doing. I thought the function of pre-orders was you need a number of customers before you release a game. Kind regards. 

[umlaut]

4 minutes ago, Battlefront.com said:

CMRT has been out the longest and CMBS is the shortest, with CMFI right in the middle. 

Hmm. It is kinda strange to try to correct the man himself. But as far as I remember CMFI was released in 2012 and CMRT in 2014.
Or has my memory finally failed?

[Glubokii Boy]

33 minutes ago, Battlefront.com said:

 Red Thunder does good, solid sales... but it isn't the game that's keeping our lights on.

Steve

Judging eastern front intrest by the sales of RT is not quite fair imo...

Most people that are not seriously intrested in WW2 have most likely never heard of Bagration (RT)...

But the vast majority of people with ANY intrest in WW2 have most certainly heard of Barbarossa.

[Vergeltungswaffe]

33 minutes ago, umlaut said:

Hmm. It is kinda strange to try to correct the man himself. But as far as I remember CMFI was released in 2012 and CMRT in 2014.
Or has my memory finally failed?

You're correct. Steve just mixed up FI and RT.

[Cobetco]

3 minutes ago, Glubokii Boy said:

Most people that are not seriously intrested in WW2 have most likely never heard of Bagration (RT)...

But the vast majority of people with ANY intrest in WW2 have most certainly heard of Barbarossa.

the names? sure, but I'm pretty sure most people would be upset if they got a eastern front title and didnt have access to the big heavy cats and late war soviet tanks. also if Normandy sells so well then is there a French forces quasi vehicle pack planned? it feels like its the only thing missing in that title.

[Aragorn2002]

3 hours ago, Battlefront.com said:

Personally, I want to once again seeing Finns destroy KVs with nothing but their toothpicks (you old timer CMBB forum fans should remember that reference). 

No, I'm not making any new product announcements here.

Steve

Now you're talking.

I think a Finns module would be quite popular.

Edited April 8, 2021 by Aragorn2002

[Aragorn2002]

2 hours ago, Battlefront.com said:

The most cross over potential for non-Eastern Front wargamers is 1944 because people are familiar with the German stuff and the Soviet stuff is dead sexy.  Next is summer 1943 because, once again, the German forces are recognizable. 

Steve

Now that sounds like a bone.

As an Ostfronter I would welcome Kursk and beyond (even) more than Barbarossa, especially if it would enable us to simulate the battles of the winter of 1942/43, including Stalingrad and Charkow.

What really surprised me about Italy was that despite a base game and two modules the Ghurka's and French Arab units were not included. Fortunately MJ joined the fray with his splendid Goums mod, but that's not how it should be.

Edited April 8, 2021 by Aragorn2002

[chuckdyke]

59 minutes ago, Aragorn2002 said:

I think a Finns module would be quite popular.

Saw a movie in which a Fin flamethrower operator lighted his cigar on a smoldering Soviet trooper. Would be a neat animation on the end of a game.

[Aragorn2002]

40 minutes ago, chuckdyke said:

Saw a movie in which a Fin flamethrower operator lighted his cigar on a smoldering Soviet trooper. Would be a neat animation on the end of a game.

A Finn mod for CMRT would be doable. They used of course lots of different vehicles, but that could be restricted to Russian and German tanks, plus German assault guns. Even a module covering the Continuation war from 1943 on would be superb.

Edited April 8, 2021 by Aragorn2002

[kohlenklau]

8 hours ago, Battlefront.com said:

The primary problem with doing early war (Western or Eastern fronts) is the opportunity cost.  The amount of other things we could do in that time would be massive.  It's not just about money (though that is a factor, of course), it's about what benefit the overall customer base.  For example, would the customer base rather we do an early war game or maybe 4 or 5 Modules and a couple of Packs?  My guess is the latter.

Remember, you Eastern Front fans are just whacked in the head.  Mention anything Eastern Front and the true fans say "I WANT IT!".  I could offer up the possibility of a CMRT Pack with nothing but a mod to have Russians swear more thoroughly than they currently do and I bet we'd sell quite a few

And I'd be right there with you!  Remember, I'm the guy that insisted that CMBB absolutely had to have Hungarians and Romanians in it.  Man I loved playing with them.  Ah, fond memories.  Now, what were talking about?  Oh yes, the here and now.

We're intent on providing more content for the existing CM Families and improving the underling engine.  That sort of stuff benefits a lot of people.  Engine improvements benefit all and not spending 2 years on Barbarossa means time to do lots of content for the existing games.

Personally, I want to once again seeing Finns destroy KVs with nothing but their toothpicks (you old timer CMBB forum fans should remember that reference).  And I'm sure the source material for Hungarian and Romanian forces is vastly superior to what I had to work with 20 years ago.

No, I'm not making any new product announcements here.

Steve

Finns, Hungarians, and Romanians:

I did a small Finn Mod before I departed. I did a good part on a Hungarian Mod as well. I just did a Romanian Mod. Later this year I plan also to bring in the Italians...and the Spanish Blue Division.

Their quality could be enhanced by BFC if the F&R module has:

1. purchasable team of a water-cooled HMG team on the axis side...

2. scraped together a few earlier Panzers from the training schools

3. Give us a KV-1 and we can mod the toothpick.

Edited April 8, 2021 by kohlenklau

[JM Stuff]

4 hours ago, Aragorn2002 said:

Now that sounds like a bone.

As an Ostfronter I would welcome Kursk and beyond (even) more than Barbarossa, especially if it would enable us to simulate the battles of the winter of 1942/43, including Stalingrad and Charkow.

...not only do you receive the holy hand of the great man on your repaired shoulder, but in addition you receive a gift from your imagination, so long steeped in your mind, what more can we hope, go ahead,... for the good of the community !

[Aragorn2002]

17 minutes ago, JM Stuff said:

...not only do you receive the holy hand of the great man on your repaired shoulder, but in addition you receive a gift from your imagination, so long steeped in your mind, what more can we hope, go ahead,... for the good of the community !

As always I have a good feeling about your words, without understanding a word you're saying, my friend.

[JM Stuff]

1 minute ago, Aragorn2002 said:

As always I have a good feeling about your words, without understanding a word you're saying, my friend.

you know how my jokes are...go ahead to ask to Steve and keep only in your mind what I try to say, cos all is ... for the good of the community  !

[Aragorn2002]

2 minutes ago, JM Stuff said:

you know how my jokes are...go ahead to ask to Steve and keep only in your mind what I try to say, cos all is ... for the good of the community  !

As always I have a good feeling about your words, without understanding a word you're saying, my friend.

[JM Stuff]

4 minutes ago, Aragorn2002 said:

As always I have a good feeling about your words, without understanding a word you're saying, my friend.

you are joking !!??

if you ask something to somebody and recieve it, we can all together from the community also enjoying it !!!!

....so I don't think I am so bad in my Shakespeare language !!!!

you bring me down I was thinking NOW I am fit to writing a book...in ENGLISH !!!!

[Aragorn2002]

1 minute ago, JM Stuff said:

you are joking !!??

if you ask something to somebody and recieve it, we can all together from the community also enjoying it !!!!

....so I don't think I am so bad in my Shakespeare language !!!!

you bring me down I was thinking NOW I am fit to writing a book...in ENGLISH !!!!

Of course I'm joking, old boy. Nothing wrong with your English. Write that book!

I just don't share your enthusiasm about the holy hand and his communication. But I very much would like to avoid continuing that discussion.

[JM Stuff]

Just now, Aragorn2002 said:

Of course I'm joking, old boy. Nothing wrong with your English. Write that book!

I just don't share your enthusiasm about the holy hand and his communication. But I very much would like to avoid continuing that discussion.

 ...got it !

[Almac]

I heard talk about comparing game sales. Look at the content of FB vs RT. FB has way more content. I think FR will really fill out RT and allow it to compete with the other titles on a content basis. I think both are great, but when selecting titles people want to maximum the value per $ of their purchase. That's my hypothesis. RT still has some of the best maps and action I've seen. No matter what way you cut it, it's a killer series.    

Figure me this, the campaign maps in combat mission are some of the best. Would it be possible to release a campaign pack where all the campaign maps are released with quick battle AI plans etc?  

[benpark]

32 minutes ago, Almac said:

Figure me this, the campaign maps in combat mission are some of the best. Would it be possible to release a campaign pack where all the campaign maps are released with quick battle AI plans etc?  

It's already part of it! There are somewhere around 20 fully detailed historically derived maps of areas fought over in 1944/45 (most 3k+) included.

Portions of some are also used for the campaigns and quick battles (all are based upon these real-world maps this time around), and maybe a battle or two- so there's some content on them ready to play, out of "the box". And plenty that are for use for make-your-owns.

Edited April 8, 2021 by benpark

[Bubba883XL]

9 hours ago, Battlefront.com said:

I did a quick poke into our Base Game only sales and CMBN towers above all, CMSF1 is not too far behind.  The next three slots are pretty closely grouped by CMFI, CMBS, and CMRT (in that order).  This is interesting because CMRT has been out the longest and CMBS is the shortest, with CMFI right in the middle.  If I adjusted a bit for similar sales periods the rankings might be closer to CMBS, CMFI, and CMRT.

CMFB follows CMRT reasonably closely even though it has been for sale significantly less time.  Even though CMSF2 is our most recent game it's up there with CMBS (released 4 years earlier) with CMSF1 Upgrades factored in, closer to CMFB (released 2 years earlier) without.  CMA is not surprisingly last on the list.

The conclusion from this is what we'd expect.  Normandy is top dog by a huge margin and pretty clearly Modern is the next most popular topic.  Red Thunder does good, solid sales... but it isn't the game that's keeping our lights on.

Steve

thats interesting insight, thanks for sharing, do you think its related to the subject matter it covers or the amount of extra content for the title?

 

regards

 

bubba