Fire and Rubble

[Ultradave]

To put this Ghurka thing in a more pleasant mode, when I was living in England we had occasion to visit Rolls-Royce in Derby about once a month for an overnight or 2 day set of meetings. (No fancy cars - R-R makes the heavy equipment - reactor, steam generators, etc, for UK submarines). We always had at least one meal at the "Himalaya Ghurka" restaurant.  Northern Indian cuisine. It was owned and run by a retired Ghurka soldier. I'd guess he was about 5'10", 240 lbs with about 2% body fat. Built like a tree trunk.

But the food!! Oh, my!  So delicious. My favorite was their Chicken Chili Masala - very hot red chili sauce but so much flavor. Closest thing I've had to it is good Korean Fried Chicken. You couldn't stop eating it, but you know you should, because you'll be sweating all the next day. 

Good memory. I loved living in the UK. It suited us. We lived in the northwest, and it was always a treat to find that there was almost always a good convenient pub at the finish of every good hike. We lived just on the south edge of the Lakes District National Park - hundreds of thousands of acres of trails and finger lakes, while also being right on the Irish Sea. A beautiful part of the country.

Two things - 1) I was never that much of a fan of Indian food, but then I went to England and realized that the reason was because I'd never really had GOOD Indian food, and 2) The Ghurka soldier who owned the restaurant was the NICEST man (while giving the outward appearance he ripped telephone books in half for fun

[chuckdyke]

27 minutes ago, kohlenklau said:

My old gripe: For all the you forum folks who want "eggs benedict" at the breakfast bar, how about you come over a bit early and help make the damn eggs! 

I appreciate what you're doing don't get me wrong. I am a player and a customer just looking for a number of months at the extension of Fire and Rubble. As a scenario designer I just don't make the grade Kudos to you for making the game for what it is. 

[kohlenklau]

@chuckdyke For not just you but all the forumites!

Maybe you can make the grade? Maybe you are your own worst critic?

Writing a tiny scenario with a small map and a small set of forces on a short time scale is such a blast! By fighting the natural urge to pump it up to be grander and ever larger, like a wedding or a party, you can keep the finish line always in sight.

Such an undertaking is within the grasp of most every CM player and is something that everyone should give a go at, even if NEVER "released to the public"...

There are many guides and tutorials out there in written and video format.

Starting with an existing map cuts the workload down tremendously!

I am here for anybody that wants to try. If you need it and want it, if it encourages your first ever scenario attempt, I am happy to make you some custom roadsigns or a building "Hotel de Chuckdyke", vehicle markings...absolutely free <<except for shipping and handling!>>

Especially if you do a scenario in one of these minor axis nation mods...!

...end of the sermon, please pass the offering plate down the pew...

[Erwin]

56 minutes ago, Ultradave said:

I went to England and realized that the reason was because I'd never really had GOOD Indian food

Also very good Chinese and other ethnic foods thanks to the massive immigration from ME and SE Asia in the past decades.  

[Erwin]

1 minute ago, kohlenklau said:

Writing a tiny scenario with a small map and a small set of forces on a short time scale is such a blast!

Koh, I love you and all the work you have done and continue to do.  But, for many of us, what you describe is like pulling teeth (and we don't have your talent). 

Personally, I love going to dentist as I can relax on the comfortable reclining chair and have often fallen asleep (without a sedative) while the dentist works.  But, it's unrealistic to expect everyone else to enjoy what I enjoy.  

[Battlefront.com]

Wow!  This thread quickly went off topic  I'll try to get us back on track a bit:

8 hours ago, Ithikial_AU said:

Hazy memory on this one but IIRC, you've said in the past nationalities probably play a part in base game sales numbers particularly in the US where they seem to favour playing a game with their own country being present. Still the case? Is this part of the reason CM2 doesn't go to North Africa because the US 'chunk' is relatively small in terms of dates and forces?

That is for sure part of it.  But it's also about what is in wider popular culture.  Western Europeans understandably also focus on things like Normandy and Arnhem rather than Brest-Litovsk or Zhytomyr.  Until recently most of the books, TV shows, movies, etc. involved Westerners talking about Western Front because that is not only what they were most directly involved in but also because they had easy source materials to draw from.  Especially 1st hand accounts from people who fought there. 

I can say from first hand experience it used to be VERY difficult to get good stuff on the Eastern Front.  Glanz was one of the first, and for a time pretty much the only, English speaking historian digging deep into what happened on the Eastern Front.  Recently it's become a lot easier, but culture changes much more slowly.

You'd think the Germans might have made up for that, but collectively it seems they almost wanted to forget it ever happened.  I've had many conversations with German wargamers over the years and they preferred the Western Front as well.  The Eastern Front had a lot more emotional baggage for them.  Understandable.

8 hours ago, Aragorn2002 said:

I think you're making an excellent point here. One of the reasons CMRT didn't sell as well as CMBN is that the forces and timeframe are very limited.

Off the top of my head I'd say that CMBN had less breadth than CMRT and CMBN sales were massively larger.

That said, I get that CMRT sales would likely be somewhat better if there were Modules and Packs available.  But so too would CMFB and Black Sea   So maybe, just maybe, CMRT could have edged out CMFI for the #2 WW2 slot, but it would still lag way behind CMBN and CMSF.

7 hours ago, Aragorn2002 said:

I really hope Slitherine has another point of view and will have some say in it.

If done properly Blitzkrieg 1939-1940, North Africa/Tunesia and Barbarossa-Stalingrad would be bestsellers, of that I'm sure.

Of that I'm sure it wouldn't be   I've been trying very hard, for 20 years, to break the bad news to people's that unless you're passionate about 1944-45 Western Front combat your personal interests definitely will never be the top selling content.  It doesn't mean you're wrong to find passion in something, just wrong to think that's a good way to draw conclusions about markability.

And no, Slitherine has no control over what we do because they don't own us.  They only have control over which of our games they publish.

6 hours ago, Malaspina said:

Long-time Italian happy customer here, and I couldn't be happier with RtV and Gustav Line, but this is difficult news to digest. It is hard to believe that a CMRT: Barbarossa or Stalingrad module wouldn't be appreciated by the market.

Or even "Little Saturn". It would be little: only Hungarians, Romanians and Italians to add to the game. That's nothing compared to RtV

Oh, for sure this would all be appreciated by our core customer base.  If we didn't have anything else to do we'd be quite happy to do all of this and more.  But we do have a lot of things competing for our time so that means we have to select what we do very carefully.  Sadly, that means a lot of really cool stuff won't get made.  Like Crete, for example.

Steve

[Erwin]

What we may be experiencing here is a change of generations in the hobby.  Us old-timers wanted to primarily play the German side, we loved early WW2, Barbarossa and had many mods in CM1 for Poland '39, Fall of France and Sealion etc.

One gets the impression that the new members to this hobby are more interested in fighting almost exclusively as the US in late war periods where the US gets to kick ass.  North Africa is ignored cos it was primarily a Brit show until Op Torch, and the US didn't do all that well in places like Kasserine etc.  So, no CM:Afrika Korps.  

The introduction of Steam distribution means that BF is on its way to pandering to the largest "lowest common denominator" market which, as noted elsewhere, seems to be younger and primarily interested in playing as the US kicking ass.  

[kohlenklau]

22 minutes ago, Battlefront.com said:

Oh, for sure this would all be appreciated by our core customer base.  If we didn't have anything else to do we'd be quite happy to do all of this and more.  But we do have a lot of things competing for our time so that means we have to select what we do very carefully.  Sadly, that means a lot of really cool stuff won't get made.  Like Crete, for example.

Steve

Steve,

We have heard the story from MikeyD about the Valentine going in or not going into F&R. You're the boss. You take a high standard on TOE and historical accuracy. He proved it and you then agreed, it went in.

But for the vehicles that Casio has already modelled but are in other titles, the dogs and cats, like the R-35 or the Samoa, early Panzer III, (I can send you a list if you want me to bird dog it all) CAN THEY BE JUST SHOVED INTO THE EDITOR AS SINGLE VEHICLE PURCHASABLE? Please maybe also a water cooled HMG for the axis? And some infantry team WITHOUT panzerfausts? These would be clearly said as "Steve didn't approve but took pity on kohlenklau" and we threw it in for modding purposes as building blocks for SOME early war scenario ability...

..and I think this might have helped get me the Schwimmwagen...

 

Edited April 9, 2021 by kohlenklau

[Bearstronaut]

2 hours ago, Ultradave said:

Two things - 1) I was never that much of a fan of Indian food, but then I went to England and realized that the reason was because I'd never really had GOOD Indian food, and 2) The Ghurka soldier who owned the restaurant was the NICEST man (while giving the outward appearance he ripped telephone books in half for fun

If you want good Indian food in the US go to New Jersey. There is a large Indian population in North Jersey and the Indian food there is great. Also, strangely enough the best Indian food I've ever had was in South Korea. There is a restaurant in a side alley in Pyeongtaek, ROK (the closest city to the US bases Camp Humphreys and Osan AFB) run by an Indian immigrant family that made absolutely delicious food. I'm from NJ so I was used to getting good Indian food but that place blew me away. 

Back on topic somewhat I bought CMBN for my first CM game simply because it had the most content (both official and fan made). Over the next couple of years I slowly bought the remaining games.

[mjkerner]

Kohlenklau +100

[Aragorn2002]

3 hours ago, Battlefront.com said:

Wow!  This thread quickly went off topic  I'll try to get us back on track a bit:

That is for sure part of it.  But it's also about what is in wider popular culture.  Western Europeans understandably also focus on things like Normandy and Arnhem rather than Brest-Litovsk or Zhytomyr.  Until recently most of the books, TV shows, movies, etc. involved Westerners talking about Western Front because that is not only what they were most directly involved in but also because they had easy source materials to draw from.  Especially 1st hand accounts from people who fought there. 

I can say from first hand experience it used to be VERY difficult to get good stuff on the Eastern Front.  Glanz was one of the first, and for a time pretty much the only, English speaking historian digging deep into what happened on the Eastern Front.  Recently it's become a lot easier, but culture changes much more slowly.

You'd think the Germans might have made up for that, but collectively it seems they almost wanted to forget it ever happened.  I've had many conversations with German wargamers over the years and they preferred the Western Front as well.  The Eastern Front had a lot more emotional baggage for them.  Understandable.

Off the top of my head I'd say that CMBN had less breadth than CMRT and CMBN sales were massively larger.

That said, I get that CMRT sales would likely be somewhat better if there were Modules and Packs available.  But so too would CMFB and Black Sea   So maybe, just maybe, CMRT could have edged out CMFI for the #2 WW2 slot, but it would still lag way behind CMBN and CMSF.

Of that I'm sure it wouldn't be   I've been trying very hard, for 20 years, to break the bad news to people's that unless you're passionate about 1944-45 Western Front combat your personal interests definitely will never be the top selling content.  It doesn't mean you're wrong to find passion in something, just wrong to think that's a good way to draw conclusions about markability.

And no, Slitherine has no control over what we do because they don't own us.  They only have control over which of our games they publish.

Oh, for sure this would all be appreciated by our core customer base.  If we didn't have anything else to do we'd be quite happy to do all of this and more.  But we do have a lot of things competing for our time so that means we have to select what we do very carefully.  Sadly, that means a lot of really cool stuff won't get made.  Like Crete, for example.

Steve

Well...well...(running out of arguments)...life  is not just about money, Steve!

Edited April 9, 2021 by Aragorn2002

[Aragorn2002]

4 hours ago, Bulletpoint said:

Looked into this out of curiosity, and it seems decapitating dead bodies is actually considered against the additional protocol to the Geneva Convention, but that was only adopted in 1949.

That's the legality of it. Whether it's immoral to cut off a head of a dead enemy.. well I don't know. 

That must be your Viking blood. Personally I think it's pretty immoral.

[Bulletpoint]

21 minutes ago, Aragorn2002 said:

That must be your Viking blood. Personally I think it's pretty immoral.

Ah, come on.. what's a little decapitation between friends

[wadepm]

13 hours ago, Ithikial_AU said:

Hazy memory on this one but IIRC, you've said in the past nationalities probably play a part in base game sales numbers particularly in the US where they seem to favour playing a game with their own country being present.

PanzerBlitz was very, very popular.  Insanely popular at the time.   I much preferred it to Panzer Leader too - as did most people I think.

[Aragorn2002]

11 minutes ago, Bulletpoint said:

Ah, come on.. what's a little decapitation between friends

You may have a point there. Sometimes I'm too sensitive.

[kohlenklau]

It is so sad and frustrating that here we are, briefly having the rarity of Steve's attention and open dialog and a bunch of you want to discuss and debate decapitation!  

[umlaut]

2 minutes ago, kohlenklau said:

It is so sad and frustrating that here we are, briefly having the rarity of Steve's attention and open dialog and a bunch of you want to discuss and debate decapitation!  

Now dont lose your head, Phil

[Bulletpoint]

2 minutes ago, kohlenklau said:

It is so sad and frustrating that here we are, briefly having the rarity of Steve's attention and open dialog and a bunch of you want to discuss and debate decapitation!  

 

I personally find decapitation more interesting.

 

[Aragorn2002]

Besides I think there ain't such a thing as an open dialog with Steve. A monologue yes, a dialog no. 

[ASL Veteran]

On the bright side though, when Steve gets chatty like this it usually means ....

[Aragorn2002]

7 minutes ago, ASL Veteran said:

On the bright side though, when Steve gets chatty like this it usually means ....

...more delay.

[AlanSA]

26 minutes ago, Aragorn2002 said:

...more delay.

lol you really are a ray of sunshine. Never change though

[SgtHatred]

6 hours ago, Erwin said:

What we may be experiencing here is a change of generations in the hobby.  Us old-timers wanted to primarily play the German side, we loved early WW2, Barbarossa and had many mods in CM1 for Poland '39, Fall of France and Sealion etc.

One gets the impression that the new members to this hobby are more interested in fighting almost exclusively as the US in late war periods where the US gets to kick ass.  North Africa is ignored cos it was primarily a Brit show until Op Torch, and the US didn't do all that well in places like Kasserine etc.  So, no CM:Afrika Korps.  

The introduction of Steam distribution means that BF is on its way to pandering to the largest "lowest common denominator" market which, as noted elsewhere, seems to be younger and primarily interested in playing as the US kicking ass.  

Ok boomer.

[Anonymous_Jonze]

6 hours ago, Erwin said:

What we may be experiencing here is a change of generations in the hobby.  Us old-timers wanted to primarily play the German side, we loved early WW2, Barbarossa and had many mods in CM1 for Poland '39, Fall of France and Sealion etc.

One gets the impression that the new members to this hobby are more interested in fighting almost exclusively as the US in late war periods where the US gets to kick ass.  North Africa is ignored cos it was primarily a Brit show until Op Torch, and the US didn't do all that well in places like Kasserine etc.  So, no CM:Afrika Korps.  

The introduction of Steam distribution means that BF is on its way to pandering to the largest "lowest common denominator" market which, as noted elsewhere, seems to be younger and primarily interested in playing as the US kicking ass.  

Yeah, I don't think this accurate. I think a lot of Americans actually might like playing the Germans more. Probably thanks to the History channel portraying everything as the UNSTOPPABLE BEAST that the German TIGER and PANTHER was. 

Edited April 9, 2021 by Anonymous_Jonze

[Bulletpoint]

9 minutes ago, Anonymous_Jonze said:

Yeah, I don't think this accurate. I think a lot of Americans actually might like playing the Germans more. Since ya know History channel portrayed everything as the UNSTOPPABLE BEAST that German the TIGER and PANTHER was.

I think it's more about a lot of Americans wanting to fight the Communists, and Korea would be too.. ambiguous for them.