Struggling with the community

[domfluff]

5 minutes ago, G. Smiley said:

I have not used Discord. Can you please tell the advantage of Discord compared to a traditional forum like this? Is it anything more or anything else than a 'chat group'?

 

Immediacy, voice chat, streaming. It's an awful lot easier to discuss a particular tactical problem with people if you can show them directly and/or talk them through it. There's some advantages in activity as well.

There are advantages to every medium - Discord is a bad place to reference anything for the long term, but in many ways a forum isn't ideal for that either (a wiki would be the better option for sharing guides, relevant field manuals, training films, etc.). On the other hand, it's great for some immediate feedback - either in interacting with other people who play the thing, or in terms of things like testing and map design.

[Rice]

4 minutes ago, sid_burn said:

It uses "channels" rather than threads. So you can just go into whatever channel you want and talk at any time, no need to create a thread. As a result, they tend to be more active.

This has since been changed. Threads, their archival, and management is now a feature of the platform.

[BFCElvis]

1 hour ago, G. Smiley said:

Will this PBEM+++ system be available for Mac users as well?

I don't see why it wouldn't for the Battlefront version of the game. We're only testing the Windows version now because we're preparing it for the Steam release. I don't see anything about it's functionality that would limit it to Windows only. The UI looks very "Combat Mission". It looks like selecting a battle or loading saved games and PBEM files.....that's what it looks like. So, that part will be very familiar to CM players.

[Grey_Fox]

4 hours ago, StieliAlpha said:

????

Sorry, if I did not get the hidden code.

Just that "real CM players use forums" is a fairly bizarre form of gatekeeping.

Edited August 15, 2021 by Grey_Fox

[Grey_Fox]

edit: accidental double post.

Edited August 15, 2021 by Grey_Fox

[StieliAlpha]

29 minutes ago, Grey_Fox said:

Just that "real CM players use forums" is a fairly bizarre form of gatekeeping.

Now it’s my time for: ???

I don’t think, I said anything the like. 

[Centurian52]

12 hours ago, StieliAlpha said:

You won‘t find RT Players here.

Well that is a very false statement.

Edited August 15, 2021 by Centurian52

[StieliAlpha]

6 hours ago, Centurian52 said:

Well that is a very false statement.

Ah, I see. That one was probably too absolute, indeed, but not in the focus of my OP and just slipped through.

Next time, just tell me when you think I am wrong (and preferably where I am wrong). That usually saves a few clarification rounds. I am old enough to take „well deserved“ criticism, so: „Don‘t worry“.

[Centurian52]

@StieliAlphaI don't like making assumptions about what people mean by things. But the line struck a nerve with me because if felt like the subtext was "this is a safe space BECAUSE there are no RT players here", implying that there is something wrong with plaything CM in RT rather than WEGO (again, not saying that's what you actually meant, but that's what it looked like to me). Which is not only absurd, but it would seem rather arbitrary for the community to fracture over something as trivial as WEGO vs RT. Talk about some weird gatekeeping standards (we probably want avoid any sort of gatekeeping at all come to think of it, since I assume we all want CM to do well commercially).

[Freyberg]

Some few years ago, when I had the time and energy to play PBEMs, I found good opponents on the Blitz forums.

Having said that, it's been about 5 years...

[chuckdyke]

1 hour ago, Centurian52 said:

something as trivial as WEGO vs RT

We bought the game to have fun. I play WEGO but wish people who play RT all the best.

[Bulletpoint]

14 hours ago, sid_burn said:

It uses "channels" rather than threads. So you can just go into whatever channel you want and talk at any time, no need to create a thread. As a result, they tend to be more active.

Doesn't that mean that topics get washed away by new posts? If you ask a question, you have to hope to be lucky there's somebody out there who happens to read and reply while the question is still visible..?

[Grey_Fox]

58 minutes ago, Bulletpoint said:

Doesn't that mean that topics get washed away by new posts? If you ask a question, you have to hope to be lucky there's somebody out there who happens to read and reply while the question is still visible..?

The chat logs are permanent, or at least I haven't found any cutoff points where chats become deleted. I don't know about other people but I tend to try to catch up with discussions that happen on the discord server. Additionally there is a search function that allows you to search by keyword, files, users, etc.

As for chats becoming lost in the mist of time, this happens on forums as well unless you become adept at search functions or the forum is so lifeless that new topics are rarely created.

At the end of the day it's neither better nor worse, it's just a different way of communicating.

[StieliAlpha]

3 hours ago, Centurian52 said:

@StieliAlphaI don't like making assumptions about what people mean by things. But the line struck a nerve with me because if felt like the subtext was "this is a safe space BECAUSE there are no RT players here", implying that there is something wrong with plaything CM in RT rather than WEGO (again, not saying that's what you actually meant, but that's what it looked like to me). Which is not only absurd, but it would seem rather arbitrary for the community to fracture over something as trivial as WEGO vs RT. Talk about some weird gatekeeping standards (we probably want avoid any sort of gatekeeping at all come to think of it, since I assume we all want CM to do well commercially).

That‘s miles from what I intended to say. The RT thing was just a side note for me.

What did I once hear an elderly lady saying to her husband? „Talk to the people. Alas you talk to your animals, too.“

Edited August 16, 2021 by StieliAlpha

[G. Smiley]

15 hours ago, domfluff said:

Immediacy, voice chat, streaming. It's an awful lot easier to discuss a particular tactical problem with people if you can show them directly and/or talk them through it. There's some advantages in activity as well.

There are advantages to every medium - Discord is a bad place to reference anything for the long term, but in many ways a forum isn't ideal for that either (a wiki would be the better option for sharing guides, relevant field manuals, training films, etc.). On the other hand, it's great for some immediate feedback - either in interacting with other people who play the thing, or in terms of things like testing and map design.

Thanks domfluff!

I remembered I actually downloaded the Discord app for some reason a while ago, so I fired it up - but was unable to locate the Combat Mission group? What is it called?

 

[Aragorn2002]

12 minutes ago, G. Smiley said:

Thanks domfluff!

I remembered I actually downloaded the Discord app for some reason a while ago, so I fired it up - but was unable to locate the Combat Mission group? What is it called?

 

Great name, George (Smiley)!

Edited August 16, 2021 by Aragorn2002

[Grey_Fox]

18 minutes ago, G. Smiley said:

Thanks domfluff!

I remembered I actually downloaded the Discord app for some reason a while ago, so I fired it up - but was unable to locate the Combat Mission group? What is it called?

 

This is an invite link to the server: https://discord.gg/wf9Put6m

Should work for a couple of days.

[BornGinger]

On 8/15/2021 at 10:35 AM, Aragorn2002 said:

Silly question probably, but is it possible to PBEM against yourself?

It is. You save the game after which you go to the outgoing email folder and move the save to the incoming email folder. You will have to log in for every time you play just as when you play hotseat with yourself.

Quote

Though I prefer winning of course, since losing can really ruin one's self-respect.

If you decide to play just to test something out, for example have green or conscript troops who all are fanatic or similar then losing shouldn't be such a big problem as it was expected. If it would turn out that you'd get a major or tactical victory with those kind of troops the surprise would be a great one. And maybe you'd even feel like walking on heaven for the following couple of days after that victory.

Edited August 16, 2021 by BornGinger

[A Canadian Cat]

32 minutes ago, BornGinger said:

On 8/15/2021 at 5:35 AM, Aragorn2002 said:

Silly question probably, but is it possible to PBEM against yourself?

It is. You save the game after which you go to the outgoing email folder and move the save to the incoming email folder. You will have to log in for every time you play just as when you play hotseat with yourself.

Hotseat is more efficient since it doesn't have to reload everything every time. I have done PBEM locally but only for testing of the game. If I'm testing a tactical situation Hotseat is the way to go for sure.

33 minutes ago, BornGinger said:

Though I prefer winning of course, since losing can really ruin one's self-respect.

#sad. If you avoid playing because loosing is too hard, it becomes hard to learn to get better. Also, as I used to say to the kids I couched "we are here to do our best and win but if you cannot enjoy the game even when you loose you are just going to be miserable".

[A Canadian Cat]

20 hours ago, domfluff said:

Immediacy, voice chat, streaming. It's an awful lot easier to discuss a particular tactical problem with people if you can show them directly and/or talk them through it. There's some advantages in activity as well.

There are advantages to every medium - Discord is a bad place to reference anything for the long term, but in many ways a forum isn't ideal for that either (a wiki would be the better option for sharing guides, relevant field manuals, training films, etc.). On the other hand, it's great for some immediate feedback - either in interacting with other people who play the thing, or in terms of things like testing and map design.

Nice clear eyed summary. I am a member on Discord but honestly I don't read a lot since there is reams and reams of friendly banter. It's nice and all but not really CM relevant at all times.

[domfluff]

Indeed. Sometimes it's like herding cats, but I do think it's a valuable resource. The most valuable bit is the connection to other players - whether that's to find opponents, or to discuss things.

To take Saturday as an example - Bil hasn't updated his Battledrill blog in a while, so hasn't yet gotten around to publishing a Platoon tutorial scenario, in the same manner as his Squad and Tank platoon ones. Since this came up in conversation a couple of times, I put one together, published it there in demo form, and spent a bit of time in the morning talking through the mission with someone who was giving it a go. He failed badly the first attempt, but aced it on the second, which is pretty much ideal.

Later that day, following a previous conversation on the subject of scenario design (and what "balance" actually means in CM design terms), I was voice-chatting with someone about a CMSF scenario they had recently won in a PBEM game, where their opponent went wrong, and what was good and bad about the scenario design. During that conversation (which was mostly us two, but had a few other people dropping in with their thoughts), his opponent joined, and we were able to stream turns from both of their perspectives, and talk through what each party was thinking and why at different stages.

That definitely takes some effort, and it's not without fault, but then that's true for literally any medium like this.

[kohlenklau]

Hi domfluff

I just visited discord via your generic invitation. I don't think it matches my style and life-long habits of communication. No offense and best wishes to you and other discord folks. I think I will stay here in the BFC CM forums. I use the forum search often and have resurrected old threads of mine from like 5 to 7 years ago. I did have a nice peaceful and steady interaction on discord about 2 months ago. The way in which I utilized it was just 1 on 1 and wasn't much different from the forum in my eyes. If the other guy happened to be on discord then we swapped posts very quickly. It has uses but the giant cocktail party with everybody shouting out whatever was too much for old guy me. 

Best wishes to discord users. :-)

[A Canadian Cat]

1 hour ago, domfluff said:

Later that day, following a previous conversation on the subject of scenario design (and what "balance" actually means in CM design terms), I was voice-chatting with someone about a CMSF scenario they had recently won in a PBEM game, where their opponent went wrong, and what was good and bad about the scenario design. During that conversation (which was mostly us two, but had a few other people dropping in with their thoughts), his opponent joined, and we were able to stream turns from both of their perspectives, and talk through what each party was thinking and why at different stages.

Yeah that is cool. Well done. For me I steal a moment here and there and read threads here and other places and offer up my thoughts. There is just no way I could take an hour and chat live. Maybe when I retire - if that ever happens.

[George MC]

1 hour ago, IanL said:

Yeah that is cool. Well done. For me I steal a moment here and there and read threads here and other places and offer up my thoughts. There is just no way I could take an hour and chat live. Maybe when I retire - if that ever happens.

Ah... free time.

What's that again...?

[Vacillator]

15 minutes ago, George MC said:

Ah... free time.

What's that again...?

Does that mean you're busy on new scenarios George?  I do hope so.  Of course 'free time' means you don't get paid for it .