Struggling with the community

[A Canadian Cat]

On 9/6/2021 at 6:12 AM, Probus said:

The only one that I've never had problems with is mods. Can they really cause problems with PBEM games?

The sort answer is no. Mods do not effect PBEM games.

There is a slightly longer answer where there is a class of mods that effect a small subset of actions on the margins. But even those you will not notice because they effect both sides equally so you really cannot install a mod that give you an advantage over your opponent.

[Sgt.Squarehead]

22 minutes ago, IanL said:

But even those you will not notice because they effect both sides equally so you really cannot install a mod that give you an advantage over your opponent.

Why would anyone ever even want to? 

[chuckdyke]

Are the Valentines in F&R mods of a more powerful AFV or a historical reflection of the real thing? If it is a mod it really gives the Russian player an advantage. 

[Sgt.Squarehead]

The Valentine was so good that the UK stopped using them ASAP. 

However the Soviets just lapped them up!  Production was continued in Canada (maybe elsewhere) solely to meet Soviet demand. 

I believe the UK did use a very few in NWE (I seem to remeber seeing one in a picture near Antwerp) & Italy, but I'm not sure precisely what role they played. 

[chuckdyke]

1 minute ago, Sgt.Squarehead said:

I'm not sure precisely what role they played

Command vehicle? They have radios. I played a game yesterday with the 57mm (6Pounder) Churchills. In Battle for Normandy the 57 mm HE is a lot less effective than in F&R. Mods can be seen as a very effective camouflage. 

[Sgt.Squarehead]

The Valentines are not a mod.....BF don't need to make mods, they have 'The Keys To The Kingdom'.

However that doesn't mean that they get everything right first time.....If you really think there's an issue, run & record some tests with comparisons between the games. 

Present some coherent & tangible evidence and I'm sure the issue will be addressed, eventually. 

Edited September 7, 2021 by Sgt.Squarehead

[Howler]

16 minutes ago, chuckdyke said:

Command vehicle? They have radios. I played a game yesterday with the 57mm (6Pounder) Churchills. In Battle for Normandy the 57 mm HE is a lot less effective than in F&R. Mods can be seen as a very effective camouflage. 

You can't mod data values assigned in the TOEs. As @IanL mentions, there is a small subset of mods affecting animation (.ani) that some use to, for example, make the 'medic' pose prone. Another would change 'cower'. Otherwise, the mods are visual and cosmetic. Your modded trees may be bare/sparse to you but in game terms - the trees are calculated based on the tile defined in the scenario proper.

[chuckdyke]

Thanks to you both, it is just my perception about the Valentine in F&R. 

[Vanir Ausf B]

11 hours ago, chuckdyke said:

Command vehicle? They have radios. I played a game yesterday with the 57mm (6Pounder) Churchills. In Battle for Normandy the 57 mm HE is a lot less effective than in F&R. Mods can be seen as a very effective camouflage. 

Russian 57mm HE shells had 1.1 pounds of TNT compared to .4 pounds in British 6 Pounder shells. I don't know if Russian lend lease Valentines used British ammo or Russian but it sounds like the game assumes the latter.

Edited September 8, 2021 by Vanir Ausf B

[chuckdyke]

1 hour ago, Vanir Ausf B said:

Russian 57mm HE shells had 1.1 pounds of TNT compared to .4 pounds in British 6 Pounder shells.

Good theory it is the best explanation I know their 57 mm AT gun had also a higher velocity. Thank you for pointing this out. I certainly noticed the difference between 57 mm Churchills and the 57 mm Valentines when it came to HE. 

[Vanir Ausf B]

I did check and in CMBB the lend lease Valentines used British HE values, so that's different from Red Thunder assuming your observations are accurate. I don't know if Russian 57mm was compatible in reality. I would guess "no" since they have different weight so I may post that in BFC's bug tracker if my testing confirms your observation.

Edited September 8, 2021 by Vanir Ausf B

[chuckdyke]

1 hour ago, Vanir Ausf B said:

if my testing confirms your observation.

I played Mountains of the Moon as Soviet and was pleasantly surprised the Valentines were very effective against Germans in foxholes. Comparing the HE animations with the animations of the T34/85 there was little or no difference.