Struggling with the community

[Ultradave]

On 8/13/2021 at 6:46 AM, DownSized said:

So here I am reaching out. I'm new to combat mission and my first 3 encounters with your community have not been great so I need some faith restoring.

I came looking for the combat mission discord because I wanted to get involved iwth other players who enjoyed these games as well, get some PBEM in and get better at the game maybe make a friend or two.

 

To get back on track @DownSized, The Few Good Men web site is a good place to frequent. They have their own forums, it's where the scenario depot and mods warehouse are hosted there and maintained by the ever hard working @Bootie, who lurks in the shadows around here too   and you can match up with opponents in the forums. They also have tournaments of various kinds. 

I believe The Blitz is much the same but I've not been there much in years.

https://www.thefewgoodmen.com

Register, introduce yourself (there's a forum topic for that) and in your intro you can state you want opponents. There are plenty of active PBEMers and one advantage of entering a tournament when they run them is that people are even more likely to see it out rather than default. 

https://www.theblitz.club

Hope that gives you some help and some matchups. I think these were mentioned in passing but here are the links.

Dave

[Bootie]

New players always welcome! 

[sburke]

3 hours ago, Howler said:

Yes, of course, it's the community's fault. It's always somebody else's fault.

Another fine post. Your mom must be so proud...

in every generation there are always some who just never learn how to play nice with others.  They assume that all their put downs and verbal insults etc are showing their superiority when most everyone is wondering "what the fk is wrong with that dude?"  then we shrug and move on cause there are plenty of more interesting things to do... like yell at the fk'in clouds.

[Grey_Fox]

On 8/21/2021 at 11:37 PM, BuzzCutPsycho said:

The dislike for "young people" in gaming is understandable especially if you look at the trend of modern AAA or even AA games but the wargaming community has always had an issue with gate keeping and quite frankly Combat Mission itself does not do itself any favors when it comes to attracting and growing a player base.

The fact that "PBEM +++" or whatever it is called is being touted as this amazing breakthrough is comical in of itself. A true lobby system and genuine support of a proper multiplayer would do wonders in facilitating a healthy MP community albeit a niche one.

This PBEM garbage was outdated back when CM was first released and it's even more outdated today. The group I play CM with (about 30 people on a Discord) all play direct connect either turn based or real time. PBEM is antiquated garbage and players interested in the series are right to mock and laugh at it being touted as a feature.

Tbf I don't mind PBEM. In my current Black Sea match, a huge QB, it took me about 2-3 hours to do terrain analysis and set up my defense. Some turns take me several minutes just to view the replay due to how much is going on.

Additionally it allows me to play against people on different timezones, which would rarely be feasible in a direct-connect game.

Edited August 22, 2021 by Grey_Fox

[domfluff]

I'd never criticise someone for playing real time (or only ever playing single player, or only playing Quick Battles against the AI, etc., etc.).

I think it's pretty self evident that it's not the way to get the best out of Combat Mission, and it's not for me, but that doesn't mean it's an invalid approach. It might be worth pointing out that Steve identified as "real time player", at least during CMSF 1.

I do take exception at the idea of setting this up as a strawman to create some kind of divisive outgroup, especially as I can't see anything positive to be gained from doing so. It's ultimately both damaging and immature, and it just creates pointless noise. The exact same logic applies to imagined age barriers, WW2/Modern gamers or any other arbitrary lines you might care to draw.

Serious wargaming is a niche hobby, and CM is a small part of that. It's upsettingly common for niche groups to start by eating themselves, defining themselves by whom they reject. It's also more than possible to be better than that, with some work. It's very easy to criticise and bring people down, but it takes a bit more effort to add anything positive back. This thread has been pretty disappointing.

Edited August 22, 2021 by domfluff

[chuckdyke]

I don't know about anybody, but we all bought this game for enjoying ourselves. The problem with PBEM is match ups in my view. Data handling and preferences (Iron Veteran and anything in between) than we have experience and additional house rules. To make AAR and videos on the side. If you enjoy PBEM good luck to you and the same goes for RTS. Some games maybe more suited for RTS example IED's I found them ineffective on WEGO. I like to record screenshots and playback to analyze tactics best done on WEGO. Kind regards and happy gaming.  

[Splinty]

I think PsycoBuzzCut has spent too much time on forums where trash talking and putting down other user's opinions is the norm.

[Sgt.Squarehead]

Reckon so partner, reckon so. 

[BFCElvis]

On 8/21/2021 at 6:37 PM, BuzzCutPsycho said:

The fact that "PBEM +++" or whatever it is called is being touted as this amazing breakthrough is comical in of itself. A true lobby system and genuine support of a proper multiplayer would do wonders in facilitating a healthy MP community albeit a niche one.

Man, you are an aggressive one, aren't ya?

Nobody, certainly nobody from Battlefront, has referred to the PBEM+++ system as "this amazing breakthrough". To say that people calling it that is "comical" is kinda weird, don't you think? It's certainly a new feature for Combat Mission but it's been around in Slitherine/Matrix games for a while. There is nothing revolutionary or new about system. It's just new to CM. 

Quote

This PBEM garbage was outdated back when CM was first released and it's even more outdated today. The group I play CM with (about 30 people on a Discord) all play direct connect either turn based or real time. PBEM is antiquated garbage and players interested in the series are right to mock and laugh at it being touted as a feature.

I hope you realize that throughout this thread you have been exactly what you are accusing others of. Why would anyone "mock and laugh" PBEM being part of Combat Mission? That's just weird. If you feel that it is garbage and outdated you can do exactly what you're doing. Not play PBEM. Fortunately there are other modes of play. But just because you like Cherry Garcia doesn't mean that Chubby Hubby (Ben and Jerry's reference) sucks and worthy of be mocked and laughed at. 

So, maybe a deep breath might be in order. Sit on back. Calm down a little. If someone doesn't like Discord don't let it bother you. If you don't like PBEM then don't get yourself all worked up about it.

[Probus]

I (53 Retired) like to play Combat Mission with my youngest (20).  He has run rings around me in RTS mode.  Including the first time he played.  He is great at RTS games and I have never been because I play Combat Mission like a Chess game (which i've been playing since I was a 5 yr old) on steroids, being a wargamer since the 5th grade.

When we switched to a middlin' battle in PBEM.  He got overwhelmed with the complexity of micromanagement of each of his units.  We got about 3 or 4 turns in and never finished that game.  He just hated the playstyle.  Had we switched the game to RTS, he would have wiped the map with me, with not a touch of being overwhelmed.

So since I've grown up playing turn based games (until High School), PBEM comes naturally to me.  Since he's grown up with computer games of one sort or another (since he was 2), he is a natural at the RTS style of gameplay.

Let me take it one step further, I haven't been beaten in Chess since I was a Freshman in college.  If you were to sit me down and make me play a game of speed chess, you'd prolly beat me the first time and almost every time thereafter.  In my opinion its a different game completely.  I play chess about 5 turns ahead of the current move.  You just can't do that in speed chess.

Lastly, like @Ultradave PBEM fits my play style perfect.  I just retired in November after a 30 year career as an Air Force Civilian and internet business owner.  Since I had to medically retire due to an injury, my PBEM style is sporadic right now.  I had no trouble playing 13 simultaneous PBEM games when I was stuck in a hotel for a month at the Mayo Clinic.  Now I'm home, I have trouble keeping up with 4 or 5.  So 1 turn a day is good right now. 

Believe it or not, I have one cherished PBEM game that I've been playing for almost a year now.  And it's a real nail biter.  Something that is probably inconceivable to some of our younger friends.

Battlefront is a very conservative company.  I started out playing their games in 2000.  Bought the first 2 and then didn't rediscover the company until last year by accident.  Been playing their games ever since (with just a little bit of Kerbal Space Program thrown in, to scratch an itch ).

Edited August 24, 2021 by Probus

[Ultradave]

 @Probus  sounds like my brother from another mother    

Dave

 

[Ridaz]

Sorry to hear about your bad encounters.

I live in the Oceanic region which is a total opposite from most of my opponents and so far I have never encountered a time zone issue with them.

If you are looking for Discord channel. You may join Hex which includes a Combat Mission channel for player to discuss and find opponents.

I also run a combat mission fan club FB group with quite a healthy community.

Discord: https://discord.gg/56Hj4Hha3J

Facebook group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/669551343523575/

[ZPB II]

People who call PBEM outdated aren't futuristic, and are actually the true luddites. If and when WW3 comes, the internet will be one of the first things to go.

A pigeon or a runner or a drone or maybe even a well-trained cat will deliver my PBEM turns. It's going to be a bit more laborious exchanging TCP/IP packets that way. Gonna take a while to get somekind of semaphore up and even then the latency and packet loss are going to be ghastly.

Edited September 6, 2021 by ZPBII

[chuckdyke]

PBEM means Play BY E Mail. It is not as straight forward as that. You have different skill levels, house rules, mods not compatible, systems which can't handle the files etc. Then you need a Dropbox account for some reason. The hardest I think is to find an opponent who plays on your wavelength. I am not holding my breath. 

[Probus]

@chuckdyke it's not that bad. I've been playing PBEM since day 1. (2020 not 2000) and have had at times 10+ games going when I was stuck in a hotel for a month (long story).  

  I have had problems with all of your points except one. I've found them relatively easy to work through.  The only one that I've never had problems with is mods. Can they really cause problems with PBEM games?

 The worst of your points is house rules as we often assume the other player knows them. That would be conditions concerning artillery and setup locations. Some play with no bombardment 1st turn. Some with no bombardment in a setup zone on the 1st turn. And some even play with no calling in pre-planned bombardment at all on first turn.

I've made the mistake and I've had it happen to me. Just let your opponent know and they have always been gracious about it.

I've found the biggest problem is one that you didn't mention and that is when Real Life gets in the way. Again, players have always been gracious and put games on hold or cease fired in extreme situations.

Dropbox can be used to automate the process. Prolly something that will not be required over the coming year except maybe in complex multi-player games.

What do you think @chuckdyke?

[chuckdyke]

4 minutes ago, Probus said:

What do you think

I have an opponent who I play once a week on Hotseat by visiting each other. TBH I never played over the internet and have no plans to do so. I just read some of the issues on The Few Good Men Website. I would like to make some contribution by Scenario Design which is something I only played with. Kind regards and thanks for your reply. 

[Sgt Joch]

One big advantage of CM is that it accommodates all sorts of play styles, single player, Real time MP, PBEM MP.

I have been playing CM MP for close to 20 years and rarely had a bad experience or players disappearing. Human players provide a challenge and satisfaction that the AI never will.

Nice thing about clubs like TFGM is that they organize campaigns and tournaments which provide a more immersive experience and different gameplay.

Some games like First Person Shooters or Flight Sims work well in Real Time, but CM is well suited to PBEM WEGO. It gives you the time to properly plan your moves and accommodates your schedule and players in different time zones since there are CM players everywhere.

[Sgt Joch]

3 hours ago, chuckdyke said:

 Then you need a Dropbox account for some reason. 

You don’t need Dropbox, it just makes sharing files easier. Using Dropbox started when CMSF1 came out, it had file sizes which were a lot bigger than CMx1 and email/Internet had lower limits back then. Both those problems have been solved over the past 15 years.

You can send files as an email attachment, but with Dropbox, you just drag the outgoing email to the folder and your opponent automatically receives it. Dropbox also notifies you when a new file comes in.

Of course, once PBEM+ is up and running, it will make things even easier.

[Erwin]

1 hour ago, Sgt Joch said:

You can send files as an email attachment

Larger games may create savegame files tat are too large to send via e-mail.  Dropbox or similar is needed in those cases.

4 hours ago, Probus said:

 The only one that I've never had problems with is mods. Can they really cause problems with PBEM games?

Can't see why.  The only issue with lots of mods is that may slow down loading and saving.  May give the processor more work when watching the movie..

[chuckdyke]

1 hour ago, Sgt Joch said:

PBEM+

Will follow that right now I don't have the foggiest what it is about

[z1812]

7 hours ago, chuckdyke said:

PBEM means Play BY E Mail. It is not as straight forward as that. You have different skill levels, house rules, mods not compatible, systems which can't handle the files etc. Then you need a Dropbox account for some reason. The hardest I think is to find an opponent who plays on your wavelength. I am not holding my breath. 

Actually it is very straight forward. You both agree on a scenario, the difficulty setting, then you play your turn and email the file to your opponent. They play their move and return it. I always have PBEMs on the go, and have had for many years..................without any difficulty or problems. As Erwin points out, there is no need for a dropbox account unless you are playing very large scenarios.

Edited September 6, 2021 by z1812

[Probus]

I like using Dropbox with @IanL's Whose Turn is It?  It automates the process by copying the files back and forth and keeping track of turns.

https://www.lesliesoftware.com/products/WhoseTurnIsIt/index.html

 

[Ultradave]

20 hours ago, chuckdyke said:

Will follow that right now I don't have the foggiest what it is about

A system within the CM2 game to automate PBEM. Many Slitherine/Matrix games have a PBEM++ system built in. For CM2 when you start a game and pick Single player Real time, Hot seat, etc, there will be a new option for PBEM.

You can post a challenge (basically start a scenario and post it for anyone to pick up, or you can password protect it and send the password to a specific opponent - only they will be able to accept).

Basically, you then you play your turns, and receive an email when the next turn is ready for you. Your PBEM++ games are separate from your own single player saved games.  In each game it looks a bit different visually. I've used it without problems for WitW, WitE, Flashpoint:Red Storm.

Currently being tested for CM2

Also, to play PMEM today, Dropbox is not necessary. It's a convenience, and is used with H2H Helper and Who's Turn Is It, to pass the files back and forth. You can still just send emails like we used to in CM1.

Dave

Edited September 7, 2021 by Ultradave

[chuckdyke]

10 minutes ago, Ultradave said:

You can post a challenge (basically start a scenario and post it for anyone to pick up,

I like that idea with a note of the level you play. 

[Ultradave]

You could edit the name of your save file/challenge name to include that. Easy

Dave