Fire and Rubble Update

[Bubba883XL]

where do you find these podcasts?

[Commanderski]

11 minutes ago, Bubba883XL said:

where do you find these podcasts?

In the General Discussion section: Interview with the Founder of Battlefront.com & Combat Mission

[Aragorn2002]

On 9/24/2020 at 1:10 AM, Commanderski said:

Listening to the Podcast with the founder at a little over the one hour mark he did say that Fire and Rubble was delayed due to the pandemic and their military contract but "will definitely be out this year".

With only a little over 3 months left in the year it should be out soon.

Well, if Steve promises that, we can rest assured....I also read somewhere that the pandemic gave the developers more time to work on the module. But hey, there's always a good reason for delay if you want to find it.

Edited September 25, 2020 by Aragorn2002

[Combatintman]

6 hours ago, Aragorn2002 said:

Well, if Steve promises that, we can rest assured....I also read somewhere that the pandemic gave the developers more time to work on the module. But hey, there's always a good reason for delay if you want to find it.

Sure - but we could all take our tinfoil hats off about Steam, military contracts et al.  The latter reminds me of those discussions when Shock Force came out ... remember those ... "It is a click fest", "Battlefront is chasing military contracts"  Then remember that they all ended up in the Gamesquad Forum talking to each other and see how that went.  Remember that the introduction of real time play was described as all sorts of doom and gloom while conveniently forgetting that WEGO was still an option and still is ...

The brown smelly stuff bust bottom line is that this module is being worked on, it will be next out of the door and as the saying will probably go ... it will be ready when it is ready.

To give you some context - I have a scenario which I hope will release with the title - I started it in 2018, it is still not ready for release because of various issues.  This year alone, I have spent the equivalent of working every day, 24 hours a day for a month and a half and probably longer testing it, tweaking it, retesting it and stripping out every single unit in the scenario and replacing them again and then testing and tweaking again ... no fun when you have a regiment-minus of Germans and about the same on the Soviet side on a map that is roughly 3.5km x 3km - and that is smaller than it was originally made because of various issues identified in testing.  Then of course there is the time spent researching the scenario (it is historical) and making the map and then the time spent by the testers opening up the scenario, trying to play it and hitting the various issues.

I won't even go into the work that other contributors have put into the module which make my effort above seem a small drop in the ocean.

To conclude - the thing is being worked on and there is no "good reason for delay if you want to find it."

[Aragorn2002]

26 minutes ago, Combatintman said:

Sure - but we could all take our tinfoil hats off about Steam, military contracts et al.  The latter reminds me of those discussions when Shock Force came out ... remember those ... "It is a click fest", "Battlefront is chasing military contracts"  Then remember that they all ended up in the Gamesquad Forum talking to each other and see how that went.  Remember that the introduction of real time play was described as all sorts of doom and gloom while conveniently forgetting that WEGO was still an option and still is ...

The brown smelly stuff bust bottom line is that this module is being worked on, it will be next out of the door and as the saying will probably go ... it will be ready when it is ready.

To give you some context - I have a scenario which I hope will release with the title - I started it in 2018, it is still not ready for release because of various issues.  This year alone, I have spent the equivalent of working every day, 24 hours a day for a month and a half and probably longer testing it, tweaking it, retesting it and stripping out every single unit in the scenario and replacing them again and then testing and tweaking again ... no fun when you have a regiment-minus of Germans and about the same on the Soviet side on a map that is roughly 3.5km x 3km - and that is smaller than it was originally made because of various issues identified in testing.  Then of course there is the time spent researching the scenario (it is historical) and making the map and then the time spent by the testers opening up the scenario, trying to play it and hitting the various issues.

I won't even go into the work that other contributors have put into the module which make my effort above seem a small drop in the ocean.

To conclude - the thing is being worked on and there is no "good reason for delay if you want to find it."

People forget easily and the story of this module is one of a lot of promises of release and a lot of delay and frustration. The module is being worked on for years and years, so to say that it will be ready when it's ready isn't even funny anymore. I of course agree with you that it's a lot of work. I know that myself from my attempts to make a balanced scenario about the fighting near Wilkowischken in the late summer of 1944. But the development of this module for me is an all time low in the release history of BF. I think the reason why just about everything else did get priority over this module, is a financial one, because the Eastern front appeals just to a small group of wargamers. That may be understandable and sound policy up to a point, but for those interested in this module it's been a very frustrating affair. You can deny that and use all the cliches you can think of, but it's a fact. This has dragged on for years and years and it isn't exactly the first time that we are told that 'it's being worked on and we're close, very close'. My fear is that more delay will turn up and this time next year we will still have the same bloody discussion.

If we're really that close, then start the pre-ordering.

Edited September 25, 2020 by Aragorn2002

[Glubokii Boy]

32 minutes ago, Combatintman said:

Sure - but we could all take our tinfoil hats off about Steam, military contracts et al.  The latter reminds me of those discussions when Shock Force came out ... remember those ... "It is a click fest", "Battlefront is chasing military contracts"  Then remember that they all ended up in the Gamesquad Forum talking to each other and see how that went.  Remember that the introduction of real time play was described as all sorts of doom and gloom while conveniently forgetting that WEGO was still an option and still is ...

The brown smelly stuff bust bottom line is that this module is being worked on, it will be next out of the door and as the saying will probably go ... it will be ready when it is ready.

To give you some context - I have a scenario which I hope will release with the title - I started it in 2018, it is still not ready for release because of various issues.  This year alone, I have spent the equivalent of working every day, 24 hours a day for a month and a half and probably longer testing it, tweaking it, retesting it and stripping out every single unit in the scenario and replacing them again and then testing and tweaking again ... no fun when you have a regiment-minus of Germans and about the same on the Soviet side on a map that is roughly 3.5km x 3km - and that is smaller than it was originally made because of various issues identified in testing.  Then of course there is the time spent researching the scenario (it is historical) and making the map and then the time spent by the testers opening up the scenario, trying to play it and hitting the various issues.

I won't even go into the work that other contributors have put into the module which make my effort above seem a small drop in the ocean.

To conclude - the thing is being worked on and there is no "good reason for delay if you want to find it."

Ooouch !!!

1000 + hours of personal playtesting/tweaking for a single scenario...

that's dedikation to duty ...

 

 

[danfrodo]

Hey Aragorn2002, not meaning this in a disrespectful way, but have you ever written any code?  A single line of it?  If there's delays it's because they can see that it's not ready, probably in some stupid little corner case areas.

Like you, I want my new toys and I want them now.  And BFC could deliver them now.  But they are known and expected to deliver high quality products.  They don't rush things out to meet some artificial marketing deadline.  And because of that we get better games; we also get less games.

[Aragorn2002]

12 minutes ago, RepsolCBR said:

Ooouch !!!

1000 + hours of personal playtesting/tweaking for a single scenario...

that's dedikation to duty ...

 

 

Or biting of more than you can chew, like i did.

[Lethaface]

17 minutes ago, Aragorn2002 said:

People forget easily and the story of this module is one of a lot of promises of release and a lot of delay and frustration. The module is being worked on for years and years, so to say that it will be ready when it's ready isn't even funny anymore. I of course agree with you that it's a lot of work. I know that myself from my attempts to make a balanced scenario about the fighting near Wilkowischken in the late summer of 1944. But the development of this module for me is an all time low in the release history of BF. I think the reason why just about everything else did get priority over this module, is a financial one, because the Eastern front appeals just to a small group of wargamers. That may be understandable and sound policy up to a point, but for those interested in this module it's been a very frustrating affair. You can deny that and use all the cliches you can think of, but it's a fact. This has dragged on for years and years and it isn't exactly the first time that we are told that 'it's being worked on and we're close, very close'. My fear is that more delay will turn up and this time next year we will still have the same bloody discussion.

If we're really that close, then start the pre-ordering.

To be precise you choose to be frustrated because you expected and assumed this module would have been out for years. While it was announced officially somewhere last year iirc?

Of course already long time ago, probably after release of CMRT, there had been 'bones' that a module was on the roadmap for CMRT. And it has been worked on for a long time, and yes priorities change and the work on the RT module didn't get the highest prio. So of course we all get that it is a bummer that this module hasn't been out sooner.

But I haven't read much promises. BFC always says it will be ready when it is ready, which is the most important promise imo.

Just accept that they don't and will probable never (again) do promises regarding when exactly something will release, if it isn't finished yet. Perhaps for military contracts they do, but that's probably how those contracts work.

You don't have any contract for the release of this module by any date. 

It is much more relaxing to just accept how the world works, instead of trying to change or fight (and or get worked up) about the fact that this module hasn't been released yet. 

[danfrodo]

well, they certainly do have a tendancy to bite off a lot.  and the customer base also demands they bite off a lot (where's weapon X, unit Y

[Aragorn2002]

2 minutes ago, danfrodo said:

Hey Aragorn2002, not meaning this in a disrespectful way, but have you ever written any code?  A single line of it?  If there's delays it's because they can see that it's not ready, probably in some stupid little corner case areas.

Like you, I want my new toys and I want them now.  And BFC could deliver them now.  But they are known and expected to deliver high quality products.  They don't rush things out to meet some artificial marketing deadline.  And because of that we get better games; we also get less games.

That may be the reason there's delay now, but also that is the result of all the previous delay, because of other reasons. I admire this company more than i can express and know how unique they are, but my point is that we've past so many deadlines, that 'rushing things' simply doesn't cut it anymore.

[Aragorn2002]

29 minutes ago, danfrodo said:

well, they certainly do have a tendancy to bite off a lot.  and the customer base also demands they bite off a lot (where's weapon X, unit Y

i was actually refering to combatintman. And myself for that matter.

Edited September 25, 2020 by Aragorn2002

[Aragorn2002]

8 minutes ago, Lethaface said:

To be precise you choose to be frustrated because you expected and assumed this module would have been out for years. While it was announced officially somewhere last year iirc?

Of course already long time ago, probably after release of CMRT, there had been 'bones' that a module was on the roadmap for CMRT. And it has been worked on for a long time, and yes priorities change and the work on the RT module didn't get the highest prio. So of course we all get that it is a bummer that this module hasn't been out sooner.

But I haven't read much promises. BFC always says it will be ready when it is ready, which is the most important promise imo.

Just accept that they don't and will probable never (again) do promises regarding when exactly something will release, if it isn't finished yet. Perhaps for military contracts they do, but that's probably how those contracts work.

You don't have any contract for the release of this module by any date. 

It is much more relaxing to just accept how the world works, instead of trying to change or fight (and or get worked up) about the fact that this module hasn't been released yet. 

i think your comments are plain wrong. This module has been in serious development for years and promises of imminent release have been made for longer than a year now.

Choose to be frustrated my foot, old boy.

[A Canadian Cat]

 

16 minutes ago, Lethaface said:

You don't have any contract for the release of this module by any date

LOL

Guys, I have a suggestion. Put Aragon on your ignore list. It is much more pleasant to read the forum without reading his complaining. I only see his BS if one of you guys quote him - if you all place him on ignore I wouldn't even have to see that

[Aragorn2002]

12 minutes ago, IanL said:

 

LOL

Guys, I have a suggestion. Put Aragon on your ignore list. It is much more pleasant to read the forum without reading his complaining. I only see his BS if one of you guys quote him - if you all place him on ignore I wouldn't even have to see that

 I didn't have a high opinion of you in the first place, but this is the limit. Can someone please quote me?

Edited September 25, 2020 by Aragorn2002

[CHEqTRO]

Yeah,I will have to jump to defend Aragon in this one. It is not like this module has been anounced to be released like, maybe 5 times now?. Hell, if my memory is working properly this module should have been released back in 2018, and that is if I am not forgetting any earlier release date!

I am not gonna debate if those delays are justifible or not, as I am not a programmer neither I have any real knowledge of the inner works of Battlefront. Nevertheless, that doesnt change the fact that any release date given by battlefront has zero credibility at this point.

Hopefully this time will be the good one

Edited September 25, 2020 by CHEqTRO

[Bufo]

27 minutes ago, Aragorn2002 said:

 I didn't have a high opinion of you in the first place, but this is the limit. Can someone please quote me?

quoted 

[Aragorn2002]

I'm far from alone in my opinion, but most people are afraid of being bullied by the usual suspects. Not me. I like a good fight. As i said before, even the guys at wargamer think that the release dates of BF are a joke. Which they are. 

For the benefit of ianll, please qute me.

[Aragorn2002]

1 minute ago, Bufo said:

quoted 

thanks!

[John1966]

Yeah, but what about partisans?

[Combatintman]

9 hours ago, Aragorn2002 said:

Well, if Steve promises that, we can rest assured....I also read somewhere that the pandemic gave the developers more time to work on the module. But hey, there's always a good reason for delay if you want to find it.

Happy to talk about that if you want ...

I haven't seen my mother for over a year now because of the pandemic and probably won't see her until next year because of it - in fact I fear that I may never see her before she passes away.  I got stuck for three and a half months in Afghanistan because of the pandemic,  I got quarantined for two weeks when I finally got home because of the pandemic.  Three of my colleagues have died because of the pandemic and eleven have caught COVID-19.  Obviously as you should know quite well from your wife - the whole time I was in Afghanistan I was wondering whether I was going to wake up at zero late thirty with broken glass all over my bed, ringing ears and have to go out and shoot some bearded zealot carting an AK and a suicide vest.

Then of course I have to worry that my wife's work dropped off the side of the cliff for a couple of months and thinking about how we were going to cope and when I got home having to focus on family life which is always a balance of doing good stuff and the inevitable jobs that need doing.

Despite that, when I got home, I cranked out a ton of work on my scenario in order to support the earliest possible release of this module.

Now that is not a developer's point of view, it is a testers point of view and I'm sure other testers have faced similar challenges.  I contend that:

• It is facile to assert that COVID-19 has somehow given space for more rapid development.
• A sense of perspective is required.

[MOS:96B2P]

1 minute ago, John1966 said:

Yeah, but what about partisans?

+1  PARTISANS!!!  This is what I'm really looking forward to.  

[MOS:96B2P]

3 minutes ago, Combatintman said:

the whole time I was in Afghanistan I was wondering whether I was going to wake up at zero late thirty with broken glass all over my bed, ringing ears and have to go out and shoot some bearded zealot carting an AK and a suicide vest.  

+1  Glad you made it home safe, my friend.  

[Combatintman]

Just now, MOS:96B2P said:

+1  Glad you made it home safe, my friend.  

Sat in Kabul now again though mate ...

[danfrodo]

Partisans, interesting.  It'd be like shock force, very interesting.  There will be partisans in F&R?  I would like to attack an armored train.

But I am most looking forward to the battles in Hungary.  Serious heavy weapons, snow, mud,  soviets bristling w AT guns facing tiger 2s.  Epic.