How Hot is Ukraine Gonna Get?

[Grey_Fox]

9 minutes ago, Battlefront.com said:

That applies even to all of the WW2 games as they could fire to grid coordinates just as easily in 1940s and they can in 2020s.

Every time this comes up (and it's come up hundreds of times since 2000) I point out that if we implemented this then the game would become instantly unplayable and utterly unrealistic.  The reason is that gamers have a very good sense of where the enemy positions are at the start of the battle due to the completely artificial game environment.  If I am the defender and I have artillery, guess what I'd do every single game?  I'd identify the likely place for the enemy's start position and hit it with artillery in the first seconds of the game.  Even before I know if anything is there for sure or not.

This is a rare example of a realistic feature would make the game LESS realistic if it was included.  Less challenging/fun as well.

Steve

We can already call in arty anywhere on a map during the setup phase of a scenario.

So far it's worked out fine with gentlemen's agreements to not call in arty on spawn zones, or that defender doesn't get to use pre-planned arty, both of which are common and well-adhered to in my experience.

I'm specifically asking if it'd be possible to call in artillery without a TRP on a location which is out of LOS in modern titles in the middle of a scenario.

Edited May 7, 2022 by Grey_Fox

[Stardekk]

1 minute ago, dan/california said:

Given the extent to which this war had confirmed artillery as the king of the battelfield, maybe just make a whole new game. CMBS battery commander, or CMBS forward observer, whatever layer if the system makes a playable game? If any?

Easier said than done my dude. Alhough CMX3 will probably have a huge lift in changing the engine rn

[Haiduk]

3 minutes ago, dan/california said:

Given the extent to which this war had confirmed artillery as the king of the battelfield, maybe just make a whole new game. CMBS battery commander, or CMBS forward observer, whatever layer if the system makes a playable game? If any?

I think Ukrainian MoD may be interested in such "professioan edition" similator

Edited May 7, 2022 by Haiduk

[Aragorn2002]

12 minutes ago, Haiduk said:

Somebody already wrote today about him. Yekaterinburg oblast - and motor-rifle signs on shoulder strips - obviously 228th MRR of 90th tank division. As if was killed in engagement with UKR recon group, when personnaly led Russian recons on mission. 

Hopefully many others will follow that brave example.

[benpark]

The ol' Crimea pinch-

 

[sburke]

5 minutes ago, Aragorn2002 said:

Hopefully many others will follow that brave example.

making the world safer one officer at a time!

We never did get a batch report on that strike by UA on the command post.

[Huba]

6 minutes ago, benpark said:

The ol' Crimea pinch-

 

Nah, distance from Odessa is more or less the same, without the assorted risks. I doubt they have enough missiles to fire at targets inside land based AA  bubble and at extreme range. 

 

Edited May 7, 2022 by Huba

[G.I. Joe]

1 hour ago, Huba said:

Ukrainian Air Force bombed Snake Island:

There is only one appropriate response...

Sierra Hotel!

I will also say this, though I know how unlikely it is to actually happen...those Flanker drivers are not going to have to pay for their own drinks at any mess or Legion hall that I'm in.

55 minutes ago, Battlefront.com said:

Ukraine showing Russia how real air operations are done!  First they took care of the Muskova's ability to interdict air operations, then they went in and zapped the air defenses on the island.  This leaves the whole section of the Black Sea open to attack.  They wrecked at least two patrol boats then specifically hit a landing craft on the island before it could get spooked by air attacks.  With all that done, they then smashed the island with airstrikes. 

That's some excellent planning and execution.

Steve

Indeed. I will be very interested to read up on Ukrainian Air Force operations in this conflict once the dust has settled enough for some reasonably accurate and well-researched books on the subject to come out. Hard to find a close historical parallel to their situation, the best I can think of is the Iranian Air Force in the Iran-Iraq War: If anything a slightly worse situation for being cut off from any hope of replacements, but they had more of a technological edge on their opponents...and were able to stay in the fight for almost eight years.

 

30 minutes ago, dan/california said:

Can't somebody run up the bits and pieces to get these guys guided munitions?!

If I recall correctly Cold War-vintage Su-27s don't have much air-to-ground PGM capability to speak of. They would probably have to take those jets offline for weeks if not months to put in wiring, etc.

[Vanir Ausf B]

1 hour ago, Huba said:

Ukrainian Air Force bombed Snake Island:

That would explain the drop tanks.

 

[Haiduk]

3 minutes ago, Huba said:

Nah, distance from Odessa is more or less the same, without the assorted risks. I doubt they have enough missiles to fire at targets inside land based AA  bubble and at extreme range. 

 

No, Sevastopol in unreachable from any poin of controlled territory. Neptune range is 280 km. But deploying of Neptunes on Zmiinyi is suicide. And this "expert" asked himself how we can deliver at least one launcher and command vehicle there? I doubt our middle landing ship "Yuriy Olefirenko" can take aboard both vehicles and disembark its there

[poesel]

1 hour ago, Vacillator said:

Wow, the possibility for an error worries me but impressive.

If you look at the video he always touches something with his left hand on the wall before the shot is fired. I guess this is a safety release. And before that he does something with his right next to the breach.
I'm pretty sure even this workplace is not beyond safety regulations although quite relaxed.

1 hour ago, Battlefront.com said:

the testing of a specific autoloader system ("48v")

Since it is a big 'V' is probably voltage. So this is the autoloader running with a 48 Volt power supply. 48V DC is the maximum for 'low voltage' class applications. I guess they did that to make it run faster.

[FancyCat]

I hope Ukraine can manage to threaten Russian territory until Russia repatriates all the Ukrainians they have kidnapped.  Also thank you God for those Russians who are helping them live and escape in Russia. 

 

 

 

https://inews.co.uk/news/putin-mariupol-survivors-remote-corners-russia-investigation-network-camps-1615516

 

[Haiduk]

9 minutes ago, G.I. Joe said:

If I recall correctly Cold War-vintage Su-27s don't have much air-to-ground PGM capability to speak of. They would probably have to take those jets offline for weeks if not months to put in wiring, etc.

Some part of our Su-27 were upgraded in previous years to Su-27-1M version with GPS naviagation, +30% radar range at air targets, capability of bomb dropping at coordinates and some other.  

[Haiduk]

Russian jet dropped a bomb on school building in the village Bilohorivka, Luhansk oblast. 90 villagers, which hadn't time/didn't want to evacuate hide in the basemant of school. Now emergency works ongoing, already 30 people are resqued from the rubbles. 

AP claimed 600 people were killed in Mariupol theater during Russian bombing

 

Edited May 7, 2022 by Haiduk

[sross112]

11 minutes ago, Haiduk said:

No, Sevastopol in unreachable from any poin of controlled territory. Neptune range is 280 km. But deploying of Neptunes on Zmiinyi is suicide. And this "expert" asked himself how we can deliver at least one launcher and command vehicle there? I doubt our middle landing ship "Yuriy Olefirenko" can take aboard both vehicles and disembark its there

That was my question too, if Ukraine had the ability to land sufficient forces to defend the island and project force to Sevastopol and/or deny a larger portion of the Black Sea than they could from current positions on land. More of just denying it to the enemy and the psychological/propaganda of clearing it or taking it back for right now.

I do suspect that within a couple years of this war being over that Snake Island will resemble a modern day Corregidor.  

[Ultradave]

1 hour ago, Battlefront.com said:

That applies even to all of the WW2 games as they could fire to grid coordinates just as easily in 1940s and they can in 2020s.

Every time this comes up (and it's come up hundreds of times since 2000) I point out that if we implemented this then the game would become instantly unplayable and utterly unrealistic.  The reason is that gamers have a very good sense of where the enemy positions are at the start of the battle due to the completely artificial game environment.  If I am the defender and I have artillery, guess what I'd do every single game?  I'd identify the likely place for the enemy's start position and hit it with artillery in the first seconds of the game.  Even before I know if anything is there for sure or not.

This is a rare example of a realistic feature would make the game LESS realistic if it was included.  Less challenging/fun as well.

Steve

Note that when I say "on the wish list" I'm only saying people have asked for it.    Steve is the man.

Dave

[Huba]

44 minutes ago, Haiduk said:

No, Sevastopol in unreachable from any poin of controlled territory. Neptune range is 280 km. But deploying of Neptunes on Zmiinyi is suicide. And this "expert" asked himself how we can deliver at least one launcher and command vehicle there? I doubt our middle landing ship "Yuriy Olefirenko" can take aboard both vehicles and disembark its there

Do we know that for a fact? That kind of open source data tends to be very rough, more so for such new systems. There's 290km from Odessa shore to Sevastopol. Anyway shooting at such extreme distance doesn't make sense,  especially with limited number of missiles Ukraine has. Unfortunately this is one area where West can't really help, afaik there are no AShMs of comparable range. 

The gamechanger here would be ATACMS, this capability would force Russians to more or less abandon naval bases in Crimea - I wonder if Biden has balls to provide it. 

Edited May 7, 2022 by Huba

[Huba]

32 minutes ago, sross112 said:

That was my question too, if Ukraine had the ability to land sufficient forces to defend the island and project force to Sevastopol and/or deny a larger portion of the Black Sea than they could from current positions on land. More of just denying it to the enemy and the psychological/propaganda of clearing it or taking it back for right now.

I do suspect that within a couple years of this war being over that Snake Island will resemble a modern day Corregidor.  

I think denying the island to Russians at the moment is enough, without landing the forces. No point to sit there and be bombed by Russian airforce

Edited May 7, 2022 by Huba

[MSBoxer]

1 minute ago, Huba said:

I think denying the island to Russians at the moment is enough, without landing the forces. No point to sit there and be bombed by Russian airforce

I agree.  Both forces have shown that they can hit the island almost at will.  It is not worth the cost in equipment and lives to actually fortify at this time.  Denial is the best option.

[Haiduk]

16 minutes ago, Huba said:

I think denying the island to Russians at the moment is enough, without landing the forces. No point to sit there and be bombed by Russian airforce

Russians already made a statement they specially withdrew from Zmiiny to trap Ukrianian forces - as if Ukrainains bombed the island and then tried to land there troops from three helicopters and landing-assault boat "Stanislav". As if after Ukrainian reacjed the island they were struck, lost Su-24, Su-27, TB2, all helicopters and the boat, so rest of troops evacuated on RHIBs. Also as if Russia hit airfields in Odesa oblast and destroyed remains of UKR aviation.

Well, good "trap", to allow hit couple of own equipment and personnel %) 

Of course, Russian reports should be divided on 10, but there is some hints from our side we also have a losses, but without clarification. Probably one or both jets could be intercepted on the way back.  

Edited May 7, 2022 by Haiduk

[FancyCat]

1 hour ago, sross112 said:

That was my question too, if Ukraine had the ability to land sufficient forces to defend the island and project force to Sevastopol and/or deny a larger portion of the Black Sea than they could from current positions on land. More of just denying it to the enemy and the psychological/propaganda of clearing it or taking it back for right now.

I do suspect that within a couple years of this war being over that Snake Island will resemble a modern day Corregidor.  

Corregidor is way bigger than Snake Island, the island is only useful if you can contest or control the naval waters around it. 

[akd]

 

[Gary R Lukas]

8 hours ago, dan/california said:

If he tries to get in it his own army will depose him. They have seen the this war and want no part of it. We need to up our offer and get them to depose him anyway. It just wrecks Putin completely if Lukanhesko goes down. I mean several million per officer and a passport from any western country you want would be dirt cheap if it wrapped this thing up.

Does anybody here on this forum remember when the U.S.A. sent a letter to Putin a few weeks before the invasion of Ukraine and they both signed it saying that they will not use Nukes during the Russians attack on UK. But what got me was why did the U.S. even send this letter to Putin, the war was 2-3 weeks away and very little fighting was taking place at this time, I just found the letter and the timing of it to be a little odd.

[chuckdyke]

Good interview in my opinion. the talk of tactical nuclear weapons. To instill fear and to undermine the will to fight and to support. The US and its NATO allies are the most capable military in the world. Its weakness their commanders in chief who are not with the military (my opinion.

 

[Suleyman]

2 hours ago, sross112 said:

That was my question too, if Ukraine had the ability to land sufficient forces to defend the island and project force to Sevastopol and/or deny a larger portion of the Black Sea than they could from current positions on land. More of just denying it to the enemy and the psychological/propaganda of clearing it or taking it back for right now.

I do suspect that within a couple years of this war being over that Snake Island will resemble a modern day Corregidor.  

The Russians would cruise missile the island, PGM the island heavily if the Ukrainian set up installations there. I think it's better for the UAF to just bomb the clumsy defenses set up on the island.