Fire and Rubble

[Almac]

That is awesome. It is amazing how many maps there are in these games. When I compared FB and RT, have to point out that both are jammed full of content. The emphasis on producing real world maps is also huge. They can be played a 100 different ways. The most fun is thinking up a plan, executing that plan and making adjustments as needed. When you take into account the terrain, equipment, and soft factors, the game is operating on a whole other level. 

[danfrodo]

9 hours ago, Battlefront.com said:

I did a quick poke into our Base Game only sales and CMBN towers above all, CMSF1 is not too far behind.  The next three slots are pretty closely grouped by CMFI, CMBS, and CMRT (in that order).  This is interesting because CMRT has been out the longest and CMBS is the shortest, with CMFI right in the middle.  If I adjusted a bit for similar sales periods the rankings might be closer to CMBS, CMFI, and CMRT.

CMFB follows CMRT reasonably closely even though it has been for sale significantly less time.  Even though CMSF2 is our most recent game it's up there with CMBS (released 4 years earlier) with CMSF1 Upgrades factored in, closer to CMFB (released 2 years earlier) without.  CMA is not surprisingly last on the list.

The conclusion from this is what we'd expect.  Normandy is top dog by a huge margin and pretty clearly Modern is the next most popular topic.  Red Thunder does good, solid sales... but it isn't the game that's keeping our lights on.

Steve

Thanks for the info Steve, this definitely clears up my thinking.  I have definitely played Normandy the most, being from USA, and after that is big mix of the other games, w a lot of SF2 last year. 

So does this mean I don't get to nag BF about barbarossa anymore?  Where will I find meaning in life?

Modern & normandy are the big ones?  Interesting.  In Steve's shoes, I guess my longer term plan would then be to make a fancy new engine and then release all new Normandy game with it, followed by a modern title. 

[kohlenklau]

My new analogy:

BFC is like a restaurant. A very small staff that have been there a long time. They don't tend to hire on new help in the important jobs. The same chefs and masterbakers (haha) and that type stuff are probably also working elsewhere but they have a limited number of hours they clock in for "Chez Steve"

In the analogy I guess they only open for special banquets. Everything for the banquet is done in a manner that the banquet only starts when the banquet is ready. 

Sometimes the banquet has your favorite dishes in the style you prefer, sometimes not.

They can only prepare for a banquet or 2 at the same time. Some items they make for 1 banquet have no carryover to another style banquet.

The beta testers are like folks they let in to sample the items for free BUT they have to fill out reviews...too salty, I found a hair, stuff like that.

A certain banquet generates more revenue and thus warrants more of the future focus of Chez Steve

I want to thank everybody there at Chez Steve and wish you the best. I have enjoyed the banquets very much and look forward to the future ones, even if I don't always prefer the style. I will now head home and try to recreate some of that sauce you guys made...

  

[t34577685]

There are too many thing need to do on the eastern front before 1943

Take the Soviet army as an example, different formations, different uniforms, ssh36 helmets, kV, BT, T-26,  Italy, Romania, Hungary, Finland etc.

In my life, I was fortunate to be exposed to CMBB when I was in University. It was not only an encyclopedia, but also opened the door of simulated wargame for me. You see, when I first entered the University, I was still playing suddenstrike2. Of course, I didn't mean to belittle SS2. suddenstrike2 is a stepping stone to bring me into the door of military games

[Modernrocco]

Yes, the days of Blitzkrieg and Sudden Strike when I was a wee lad. Fond memories indeed.

Edited April 8, 2021 by Modernrocco

[Aragorn2002]

First time I watched the CMBB demo I was appalled by how ugly it was. A couple of weeks later after buying the game it was the love of my gaming life. That will never change.

Edited April 8, 2021 by Aragorn2002

[Bearstronaut]

16 minutes ago, Modernrocco said:

Yes, the days of Blitzkrieg and Sudden Strike when I was a wee lad. Fond memories indeed.

For me it was the Close Combat games. I played all of them when I was younger and liked them immensely. I always wondered what they would be like in a 3D engine and with competent AI and then in 2017 I found CMBN and my questions were answered. I only wish that CM had the same kind of operational level game that Close Combat does but the tactical combat blows CC out of the water.

[Erwin]

1 hour ago, kohlenklau said:

BFC is like a restaurant. A very small staff that have been there a long time. They don't tend to hire on new help in the important jobs. The same chefs and masterbakers (haha) and that type stuff are probably also working elsewhere but they have a limited number of hours they clock in for "Chez Steve"

It's a nice image.  But, it also portends that when Defense work conflicts with entertainment product, the latter will always lose.  Most of us old-timers have a lot of love for the small BFC working on these niche products and have supported them since 1999.  It's a lot harder to be equally understanding with a defense contractor which in my experience is a very lucrative biz.   Unless they are getting screwed on their defense work fees, BFC should really be able to now afford the staff so the release schedule can be more reasonable (and we can get to early WW2 in our lifetimes).  

 

[FlemFire]

1 hour ago, Bearstronaut said:

For me it was the Close Combat games. I played all of them when I was younger and liked them immensely. I always wondered what they would be like in a 3D engine and with competent AI and then in 2017 I found CMBN and my questions were answered. I only wish that CM had the same kind of operational level game that Close Combat does but the tactical combat blows CC out of the water.

Same pathline, though a bit earlier as I rotated to CM with that demo it had back in I think 1999. I wanna say it was a on a PC Gamer disc, can't quite remember. Also wish CM shared Close Combat's eye for operational stuff. A Bridge Too Far's resource balancing was a particular favorite of mine.

[Glubokii Boy]

4 hours ago, t34577685 said:

There are too many thing need to do on the eastern front before 1943

Take the Soviet army as an example, different formations, different uniforms, ssh36 helmets, kV, BT, T-26,  Italy, Romania, Hungary, Finland etc.

I'm sorry but this just isn't true...Why should these demands all of a sudden be the case with any pre 1943 Eastern front games when that in no way has been the case previously.

The first Normandy game came with very limited forces, the first Shockforce game came with limited forces, CMFI came with limited forces, RT came with limited forces...as well as limited timeframes.

Why would a pre 1943 Eastern front game all of a sudden need to include all of the stuff right from the get go ? Things like minor nations would be perfectly fine as additional modules like in all the other game families.

 

 

[Glubokii Boy]

3 hours ago, Aragorn2002 said:

First time I watched the CMBB demo I was appalled by how ugly it was. A couple of weeks later after buying the game it was the love of my gaming life. That will never change.

CMBB it one of the best computergames ever made ! all catogories included 

[Battlefront.com]

Yup, I got the CMFI and CMRT release dates reversed.  Late night, blurry vision, and annoying data mining expedition.  Another possible correction needed is I might have said Gustav Line instead of Rome to Victory a few pages ago when I was talking about learning a lesson of how much time a Module can take.  I'm too lazy to find the post and double check if I did make a goof

12 minutes ago, Glubokii Boy said:

I'm sorry but this just isn't true...Why should these demands all of a sudden be the case with any pre 1943 Eastern front games when that in no way has been the case previously.

The first Normandy game came with very limited forces, the first Shockforce game came with limited forces, CMFI came with limited forces, RT came with limited forces...as well as limited timeframes.

Why would a pre 1943 Eastern front game all of a sudden need to include all of the stuff right from the get go ? Things like minor nations would be perfectly fine as additional modules like in all the other game families.

The problem is that for a 1941-1942 game pretty much all of the units and organizations have to be created from scratch.  Limiting the scope of forces for both sides certainly reduces how much new stuff we have to come up with, but the minimum is still a large amount of work for (in our view) a questionable return for our time.  Again, it's not just about sales it is also about what else we could be doing with our time.  I bet we could do better with Space Lobsters.  And yes, I really would like to do something like that sometime before I call it quits on doing games.

Steve

[danfrodo]

Steve, I think you will never feel spiritually complete or fully emotionally actualized w/o at least getting to Fall Blau.  I am only thinking of you and your mental and spiritual health going forward into the future. 

But there are many paths to enlightenment.  A CMCW NATO module w Germany, England,  Netherlands, and also some Norway battles would greatly improve your karmic trajectory even if Fall Blau must wait.

Again, only thinking of you, not my own selfish and grasping desires.

[Modernrocco]

1 hour ago, Bearstronaut said:

For me it was the Close Combat games. I played all of them when I was younger and liked them immensely. I always wondered what they would be like in a 3D engine and with competent AI and then in 2017 I found CMBN and my questions were answered. I only wish that CM had the same kind of operational level game that Close Combat does but the tactical combat blows CC out of the water.

I wish I had stumbled across CM series a lot sooner for sure.

[Mr.X]

If I understand correctly - the future vision for CM is to create more battlepacks and such a stuff ? Expanding content is always very welcome 

Will there definitely come another module, which brings FB to the end of the Westfront ?

And a charmless question: How old is the developer team in average ? You are producing CM since 1999 (I bought CMBO in 2001 and it almost killed my university career... especially after CMBB arrived   ) - so, the leaders should be around  40-45 ?? Enough time to develop CM3...

 

Regards

Mr.X

[Anonymous_Jonze]

A Finnish Continuation War module would be amazing and I think a little easier than Barbarossa. I'd really love North Africa though. I'd even be overjoyed for just a 43 version of it.

[DesertFox]

35 minutes ago, Mr.X said:

Will there definitely come another module, which brings FB to the end of the Westfront ?

They have it on their plate, according to Steve. His answer to me from 01/2021 here:

 

[DesertFox]

40 minutes ago, Mr.X said:

so, the leaders should be around  40-45 ?? Enough time to develop CM3...

Put a decade on top and you are in the right ballpark.

Edited April 8, 2021 by DesertFox

[Glubokii Boy]

3 hours ago, Battlefront.com said:

The problem is that for a 1941-1942 game pretty much all of the units and organizations have to be created from scratch.  Limiting the scope of forces for both sides certainly reduces how much new stuff we have to come up with, but the minimum is still a large amount of work for (in our view) a questionable return for our time.  Again, it's not just about sales it is also about what else we could be doing with our time.  I bet we could do better with Space Lobsters.  And yes, I really would like to do something like that sometime before I call it quits on doing games.

Steve

Yepp...I understand that pretty much the entire unit roster will need to be started from scratch if you start on Barbarossa tomorrow but ones you get over that first hurdle you will have quite alot off opertunities to move forward ...

- Somewhat smaller efforts needed to progress through the rest of the months on the eastern front.

- Some crossovers that could  perhaps make North Africa a possibility ! 

From there...

- some crossovers that would simplyfy the Early War...

 

 

[Vacillator]

29 minutes ago, DesertFox said:

Put a decade on top and you are in the right ballpark.

And what is the demographic of the customer base? Older (and wiser ) than almost any other game I'm guessing...

Or am I blowing smoke somewhere?  Hmmm....

EDIT: Apart from chess .

Edited April 8, 2021 by Vacilllator

[DesertFox]

9 minutes ago, Vacilllator said:

And what is the demographic of the customer base? Older (and wiser ) than almost any other game I'm guessing...

Hmm, good question. I can only answer for myself and the guys I occassionally PBEM with. Most came from the Steel Panthers games or ASL games to CMBO and stayed here on or off. None of us is younger than 51 ranging up to 68. Don´t know if that is representative for the whole community, though.

[Anonymous_Jonze]

3 minutes ago, DesertFox said:

Hmm, good question. I can only answer for myself and the guys I occassionally PBEM with. Most came from the Steel Panthers games or ASL games to CMBO and stayed here on or off. None of us is younger than 51 ranging up to 68. Don´t know if that is representative for the whole community, though.

No one my age will play this game with me 

[Vacillator]

1 minute ago, DesertFox said:

Hmm, good question. I can only answer for myself and the guys I occassionally PBEM with. Most came from the Steel Panthers games or ASL games to CMBO and stayed here on or off. None of us is younger than 51 ranging up to 68. Don´t know if that is representative for the whole community, though.

I think it's fairly representative, I'm guessing average is in the mid 50s somewhere so that agrees.  Not that it matters, but it might also vary from game to game, for example younger folk may be more into modern titles.

[Vacillator]

2 minutes ago, Anonymous_Jonze said:

No one my age will play this game with me 

Does that mean you're a young whippersnapper ?

[Mr.X]

53 minutes ago, DesertFox said:

Put a decade on top and you are in the right ballpark.

Always thought, they started the CM-Project in their Twenties....