Professional.

[Combatintman]

1 hour ago, chuckdyke said:

It was used to enable vehicle use. 

It's an in-joke.  Back in CMx1 days there was a massive forum debate on whether Bren tripods should be included in the game.

[chuckdyke]

2 minutes ago, Combatintman said:

It's an in-joke. 

Ok

[LukeFF]

12 hours ago, semmes said:

Hey! maybe I bought a book of quotations -and I can read, they still sell them, right?

Better to give than to receive, just like Christmas. Bruce Bairnsfather, WWI.

Whatever makes you feel superior, bro. 

[Battlefront.com]

14 hours ago, Combatintman said:

It's an in-joke.  Back in CMx1 days there was a massive forum debate on whether Bren tripods should be included in the game.

Still makes me smile  

Steve

[Battlefront.com]

19 hours ago, semmes said:

True, but if I fire 20 rounds with a 42 I am going to hit less people than with a BAR.

And you'll hit even less people than a scoped sniper rifle.  So what's your point?

You don't seem to understand how accuracy and volume of fire work in terms of causing casualties.  Generally speaking, higher volumes of fire produce lower accuracy per round fired.  Since the purpose of a machinegun is to suppress the enemy, with hitting a secondary goal, a reduction in per round accuracy is fine.

This isn't a good thread to debate this sort of thing.  If you aren't participating in a thread dedicated to this thing you seem to be obsessed with, you should start one up.

19 hours ago, semmes said:

I am a bit confuse with your definition of "troll" -and of "admitting" for that matter, are you going to correct the units of fire?
Asking this question is... what exactly?

You didn't ask a question, you made a statement.  And you did it in a way that is consistent with trolling rather than constructive dialog.

19 hours ago, semmes said:

So... if you go flipping burgers the community can keep changing the code and adding material, is that how Capitalism  works?

I have no idea what this is supposed to mean.

19 hours ago, semmes said:

Yes, you have your arguments, hopefully it doesn't mean they are irrefutable.

Well, for two decades people have tried to refute our position and so far nobody has been able to.

19 hours ago, semmes said:

The point is: It is not going to change.

What, us not opening up the game engine to end user tinkering or changes to the way the MG42 works in the LMG role?  Game engine modding definitely will not change, but if a solid case can be made for changing the behavior of the MG42 in the LMG role... we'll make the change.

Steve

[MikeyD]

Its a bit ironic that people are demanding the game code be opened when so many don't bother to try the game tools that are available. If you're bored learn how to create proper AI orders sets to direct AI opponent forces in attack or defense. Learn how to build proper maps. Give the community some 3rd party scenarios set in Berlin or with Americans' backs to the Rhine, or hiding in the spa town of Baden-Baden. The game editor is 2/3rds the fun of having the game! Before you ask for 'more' first make use of what you've got. 

[chuckdyke]

4 hours ago, Battlefront.com said:

And you'll hit even less people than a scoped sniper rifle. 

True and you have to learn first how to use a scope. I always use bullseye shooters as an example. The beginner tries to hold the sight on the bullseye and can't keep the shots on the paper. An Olympic shooter is actually doing area fire. He doesn't even see the bullseye it is all blurry but by discipline he knows how to group inside the ten ring. A scope rifle you need to know where to aim and it is never on the target. The MG 42 or even the M60 iron sights at 500-800 yards it is called area fire you aim at a group lucky if you hit anything. The game actually models it very well. 

Edited October 24, 2021 by chuckdyke

[semmes]

3 hours ago, Battlefront.com said:

You didn't ask a question, you made a statement.  And you did it in a way that is consistent with trolling rather than constructive dialog.

 "or maybe in... 10 years?"

Yes, you are right.

[chuckdyke]

Scope shooting at point blank that's when he puts the cross on. Even this expert misses so now and then. Match ammo in a top quality rifle. The animals he shoots are feral pests he is actually protecting native wild life.

 

[semmes]

LukeFF ...

 

You talking about my feelings... that's touching.

Thank you.

[MOS:96B2P]

8 hours ago, MikeyD said:

so many don't bother to try the game tools that are available.

The game editor is 2/3rds the fun of having the game!  

+1.  Very true IMO.  With the editor and the ability to mod there are many opportunities to create scenarios that players have a personal interest in.  To include scenarios that are well outside the scope of the, original intended, time frame of a given game family.  Bush wars in Africa, coups in Latin America and the Middle East, Vietnam type scenarios in South East Asia, law enforcement scenarios and the list goes on.  Or scenarios can be set up to compare, contrast and test different weapon systems.  The entertainment time, educational value of the game / editor makes it more than worth the purchase price.        

[Artkin]

11 hours ago, MikeyD said:

Its a bit ironic that people are demanding the game code be opened when so many don't bother to try the game tools that are available. If you're bored learn how to create proper AI orders sets to direct AI opponent forces in attack or defense. Learn how to build proper maps. Give the community some 3rd party scenarios set in Berlin or with Americans' backs to the Rhine, or hiding in the spa town of Baden-Baden. The game editor is 2/3rds the fun of having the game! Before you ask for 'more' first make use of what you've got. 

I've made over 100 scenarios. Why would I release them? Its not like anyone on this forum chooses to interact... you all just beat singleplayer to death. I have 15 PBEMs right now with 1/3 of them being my custom scenarios. Its very ironic that you demand content when I've never seen a pbem for you. How selfish. 

My favorite PBEM of all time was G4 Storming The Castle translated to CMCW.

You aint ever gonna see that one. 

Edited October 24, 2021 by Artkin

[ASL Veteran]

2 hours ago, Artkin said:

I've made over 100 scenarios. Why would I release them? Its not like anyone on this forum chooses to interact... you all just beat singleplayer to death. I have 15 PBEMs right now with 1/3 of them being my custom scenarios. Its very ironic that you demand content when I've never seen a pbem for you. How selfish. 

My favorite PBEM of all time was G4 Storming The Castle translated to CMCW.

You aint ever gonna see that one. 

I find it hard to believe that you have made over 100 scenarios given how long it actually takes to make one.  At least if you are making them from scratch.  If you are taking the work that someone else has done and porting it over to something else or swapping some stuff around then yeah, I could see over 100.  That's just being a parasite though and making a claim about what you have "made" is honestly a little offensive to me if that's the case.  However, I am pretty sure that you can't understand or comprehend the distinction given what you have posted about in the past and what you have been advocating for in this thread.

[AlexUK]

Bit harsh on both sides perhaps. Not starting from scratch by e.g. using master maps or modifying existing scenarios seems fair enough to me, and as good a way as any to start off, and perhaps be encouraged rather than being called a parasite. It wasn't as if Artkin has publicly released and called them his own.

In relation to MikeyD not releasing scenarios (I assume that is what was meant) - he does - I think there are multiple of his scenarios in the official releases. Not a fair comment at all. 

[Glubokii Boy]

14 hours ago, MikeyD said:

Its a bit ironic that people are demanding the game code be opened when so many don't bother to try the game tools that are available. If you're bored learn how to create proper AI orders sets to direct AI opponent forces in attack or defense. Learn how to build proper maps. Give the community some 3rd party scenarios set in Berlin or with Americans' backs to the Rhine, or hiding in the spa town of Baden-Baden. The game editor is 2/3rds the fun of having the game! Before you ask for 'more' first make use of what you've got. 

Most likely there is some reason as to why most people don't decide to spend hour after hour in the editor...

Honestly, it can be kind of 'clunky' when first starting out...Players might get an idea for a scenario into their head and decide to give the editor a try only to find one or several  hurdles that prevents them from achiving what they had originally intended to do...Having this experience a few times might push them to loose intrest in scenario design...

The editor is indeed functional but it takes some experience to get to grips with what you can actually do with it and what you can not...The limitations can be pretty frustrating at times...causing would-be designers to loose intrest...

Atleast when it comes to the editor...ADDING MORE...Would be a good thing imo...

 

 

[Redwolf]

27 minutes ago, Glubokii Boy said:

Most likely there is some reason as to why most people don't decide to spend hour after hour in the editor...

Honestly, it can be kind of 'clunky' when first starting out...Players might get an idea for a scenario into their head and decide to give the editor a try only to find one or several  hurdles that prevents them from achiving what they had originally intended to do...Having this experience a few times might push them to loose intrest in scenario design...

The editor is indeed functional but it takes some experience to get to grips with what you can actually do with it and what you can not...The limitations can be pretty frustrating at times...causing would-be designers to loose intrest...

Atleast when it comes to the editor...ADDING MORE...Would be a good thing imo...

 

 

Well, the (map) editor would be one way to open up a little and get a lot of help to the user.

If maps could be imported and exported in XML format (or whatever known format), we could:

- write a program to move that village on the map 200m to the north

- convert maps between different games without too much guesswork

- if people are enterprising enough we might get automatically generated Quickbattle maps back (don't forget to put ponds on hills)

[Artkin]

2 hours ago, ASL Veteran said:

I find it hard to believe that you have made over 100 scenarios given how long it actually takes to make one.  At least if you are making them from scratch.  If you are taking the work that someone else has done and porting it over to something else or swapping some stuff around then yeah, I could see over 100.  That's just being a parasite though and making a claim about what you have "made" is honestly a little offensive to me if that's the case.  However, I am pretty sure that you can't understand or comprehend the distinction given what you have posted about in the past and what you have been advocating for in this thread.

Uh yeah. I make scenarios with simple AI plans for myself. Sometimes I just make scenarios and and play them PBEM without that.

I don't have to make an AI plan for attack/defense scenarios since AI planning would be too long for my personal enjoyment. Most of the scenarios I make are using the various master maps on the games. I have made well over 100 scenarios and I used to have my files public on these forums until I took them down after consideration for Battlefront. I have made plenty of scenarios with multiple AI plans as well. I never said I made any maps though.

 

I've created multiple master TOE's, from WW1 all the way to Black Sea. I typically use these when making my scenarios, to have a realistic basis to work from.

How can you take offense to this? I never said anything about your scenarios.

Futhermore I would have been done until the distasteful dev posted in reference to me.

Was that necessary?

Edited October 24, 2021 by Artkin

[Artkin]

1 hour ago, AlexUK said:

Bit harsh on both sides perhaps. Not starting from scratch by e.g. using master maps or modifying existing scenarios seems fair enough to me, and as good a way as any to start off, and perhaps be encouraged rather than being called a parasite. It wasn't as if Artkin has publicly released and called them his own.

In relation to MikeyD not releasing scenarios (I assume that is what was meant) - he does - I think there are multiple of his scenarios in the official releases. Not a fair comment at all. 

No, it was about participating in the community.

Edited October 24, 2021 by Artkin

[Sgt.Squarehead]

20 hours ago, MikeyD said:

Its a bit ironic that people are demanding the game code be opened when so many don't bother to try the game tools that are available. If you're bored learn how to create proper AI orders sets to direct AI opponent forces in attack or defense. Learn how to build proper maps. Give the community some 3rd party scenarios set in Berlin or with Americans' backs to the Rhine, or hiding in the spa town of Baden-Baden. The game editor is 2/3rds the fun of having the game! Before you ask for 'more' first make use of what you've got.

+1.

[Freyberg]

10 hours ago, AlexUK said:

Not starting from scratch by e.g. using master maps or modifying existing scenarios seems fair enough to me, and as good a way as any to start off, and perhaps be encouraged rather than being called a parasite.

I'd go further - isn't the whole point of the Master Maps to give people material to create QB maps and scenarios...?

Using things for their intended purpose is hardly 'parasitic.'

[Freyberg]

10 hours ago, Glubokii Boy said:

Most likely there is some reason as to why most people don't decide to spend hour after hour in the editor...

Honestly, it can be kind of 'clunky' when first starting out...

There's lots of fun to be had in the editor.

The first use I made of the editor was to edit CMBN QB maps. Being such an early release, a lot of them came to look a bit featureless compared to later maps, especially the rural ones, so I would add fences, bushes, footpaths, vary the ground cover and so on, just to make them prettier to play on.

Another really fun thing is to make QB maps from Master Maps. The newer titles have excellent Master Maps (CMRT/FR is my favourite for this) - and you can find interesting tactical challenges in them, and throw together a really fun QB map in less than an hour.

 

[kohlenklau]

Parasite? That is an insult. But just from 1 member of the BFC/insiders group. Someone I have had on ignore mode for the last 6 or 7 years when they wouldn't "allow" me to use their map in a campaign I was making.

Steve phrased it in a nicer manner. I think he basically said that modders take the load off BFC so they don't have to go down certain developmental avenues (back alleys?). This is the classic bird sitting on the Rhino in Africa. A symbiotic relationship. And notice how I slipped the word Afrika in there!

 

 

 

[Battlefront.com]

Development work and the Editor is a good example of where limited development resources would be better spent.  Instead of spending a large amount of effort getting the game engine to be meaningfully accessible to outside modders, we could put in a lot less time making major improvements to something like the Editor.  And if you're sitting there not understanding why this would be the case, then I suggest maybe never asking us to open up the game engine  Making code that was never intended for outsiders accessible by said outsiders takes a lot more than magic for it to happen.

As for ASLVet's "parasite" comment, I think people have (understandably) misunderstood it.  What I am sure he's talking about are people who take the work of others, make some changes (minor or major), and then act as if they did the thing from scratch.  Modifying something that someone else did is fine by us, and we even include Master Maps for that explicit purpose, but giving no credit to the person that did (probably) most of the work is just not cool and should be called out.

This isn't just about things like maps.  A long time ago there was a guy who was bragging about his tank texture mods as if he was some sort of Michelangelo of texturing.  When, in fact, all he had done was took other people's ground up work (including stock stuff that we did), running it through some Photoshop filters, and then rebranding it as his own.  Oh, and guess what?  The mods weren't even for Combat Mission!  They were for something like Company of Heroes (I forget what specifically).  Parasite is probably the nicest thing I could come up with for that guy.

Steve

[Sgt.Squarehead]

6 hours ago, Freyberg said:

I'd go further - isn't the whole point of the Master Maps to give people material to create QB maps and scenarios...?

Using things for their intended purpose is hardly 'parasitic.'

+ another 1.

I don't know about anyone else, but by the time I'm done with a moderate to large map I'm very often far too frazzled to make a scenario on it.....But I'd love to see someone else make some, while I get my mojo back.

[Malaspina]

10 minutes ago, Battlefront.com said:

....we could put in a lot less time making improvements to something like the Editor. 

 

Magnifico! Magnifique! Wunderbar!