PanzerMike Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 It has been a while. Some bones would be nice. Screenshot bones. Windmills! Woof. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew H. Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 It has been a while. Some bones would be nice. Screenshot bones. Windmills! Woof. Dikes and dams that can be breached during the game and will gradually flood the map if not plugged by engineers! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwolf Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 I think maybe it should have been cancelled. If it meant rolling out the first Eastern Front game earlier. This assumes that the technical challenges in the first EF game are covered by CMFI and CMBN. Outside a group of Market Garden enthusiasts nobody cares, really. The following of MG might be vocal but it's very small compared to e.g. Normandy. Maybe it would have been better to postphone MG until way after new areas are covered that draw in new audiences, while at the same time not requiring fixing lots of engine issues right now. If MG would be revisited years from now there might be more gradual improvements in the engine so that it isn't such a one-time challenge anymore. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjkerner Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 Outside a group of Market Garden enthusiasts nobody cares, really. The following of MG might be vocal but it's very small compared to e.g. Normandy. Seriously? You gotta be joking. Just check MG related book and wargame sales. Hell, even my wife and sisters at least know about it and can make a knowledable reference to it when they see one of my books or a magazine article about Operation Market Garden: "Isn't that the one about the bridge?" 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwolf Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 Seriously? You gotta be joking. Just check MG related book and wargame sales. Hell, even my wife and sisters at least know about it and can make a knowledable reference to it when they see one of my books or a magazine article about Operation Market Garden: "Isn't that the one about the bridge?" Not compared to Normandy and D-Day. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PanzerMike Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 I am sure glad you don't call the shots at Battlefront, Redwolf. I can not wait for MG and I think a lot of other people here do too. Bring it on BFC! And some bones for this dog. Woof. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baneman Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 I am sure glad you don't call the shots at Battlefront, Redwolf. I can not wait for MG and I think a lot of other people here do too. Bring it on BFC! And some bones for this dog. Woof. I'm sure MG will be very popular, but personally, having just started GeorgeMC's massive Schmiedestahl! faux-Russianfront scenario, I have realised just how keenly I'm awaiting the Eastern Front. I merely hope that it will follow soonest after MG 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seedorf81 Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 Outside a group of Market Garden enthusiasts nobody cares, really. If you make such a bold statement, please substantiate with some statistics, facts and/or data.. And how large should a group be to be allowed to "care"? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwolf Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 I recently ran a poll over at ACG forums. People need to be careful to understand what I'm saying. I'm not saying MG is unpopular. Just that it is much less popular than Normandy and D-Day. You can also consult sources such as TOAW scenarios. Very few MG scenarios available. Normandy - plenty. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sublime Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 I'm eagerly waiting for MG. I dont think it should have been cancelled - because that means they'll divert from their family of games idea - eg CMBN - MG CMFI -GL EF1-Berlin, etc etc. The original plan will see us cover almost every theater more thoroughly, and imagine if MG is taking this long, EF is a long long ways away still. I personally would rather get MG in September (which they've been working on all along) than EF perhaps a month or two earlier in 2014. And all this is being said as a man who definitely prefers EF over any op in NWE. It should finally be added that it's not really just MG thats at stake with this one - it's completing Normandy and the months in between. Many battles in Normandy with FJ troops were not possible before, and the AA guns added in will make other scenarios possible. Plus whatever new stuff we get. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George MC Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 **** me - you are something. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ASL Veteran Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 I recently ran a poll over at ACG forums. People need to be careful to understand what I'm saying. I'm not saying MG is unpopular. Just that it is much less popular than Normandy and D-Day. You can also consult sources such as TOAW scenarios. Very few MG scenarios available. Normandy - plenty. Except that you aren't comparing Market Garden to Normandy. When you state that Market Garden should have been cancelled in favor of rolling out the Eastern Front you are comparing Market Garden to the Eastern Front. So in general terms, you are comparing the popularity of Western Front themed games to Eastern Front themed games. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
womble Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 Except that you aren't comparing Market Garden to Normandy. When you state that Market Garden should have been cancelled in favor of rolling out the Eastern Front you are comparing Market Garden to the Eastern Front. So in general terms, you are comparing the popularity of Western Front themed games to Eastern Front themed games. And also making some pretty shonky assumptions about the relative quantities of work needed to bring the MG module to life vs that needed to get Bagration off the ground. Compared to the creation of an entire new army with unique equipment and TOs, and the engine additions (tank riders anyone) mandated by the change in front, MG is a relatively small thing. I'm pretty sure Steve has said they're working on both at the same time. Throwing the resource needed for OMG into the Bagration team instead probably wouldn't bring the release date noticeably closer. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holman Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 How any self-respecting CM completist could want BTS to skip the fall of 1944 is beyond me. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sburke Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 Actual news :The Sheriff of Oosterbeek - A Scenario Design DAR/AAR versus the sputterings of those who love to predict BF's demise or point out their lack of judgement despite which they are somehow still quite successful. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
easytarget Posted June 29, 2013 Share Posted June 29, 2013 If you let Redwolf troll you, you've only yourself to blame. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted June 29, 2013 Share Posted June 29, 2013 It should finally be added that it's not really just MG thats at stake with this one - it's completing Normandy and the months in between. Many battles in Normandy with FJ troops were not possible before, and the AA guns added in will make other scenarios possible. And not only that, there was also other important fighting going on in the same time period: the battle for Aachen; the early stages of the fighting for the Hürtgen Forest; some of the early stages of the Lorraine Campaign; the battle to clear the Scheldt Estuary. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted June 29, 2013 Share Posted June 29, 2013 I'm not saying MG is unpopular. Just that it is much less popular than Normandy and D-Day. So? Nearly every topic is less popular than D-Day, depending on whom you are poling. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwolf Posted June 29, 2013 Share Posted June 29, 2013 And also making some pretty shonky assumptions about the relative quantities of work needed to bring the MG module to life vs that needed to get Bagration off the ground. Compared to the creation of an entire new army with unique equipment and TOs, and the engine additions (tank riders anyone) mandated by the change in front, MG is a relatively small thing. But that's not what Steve's message about almost canceling MG implies, is it? What would be the point in doing that, then? I'm pretty sure Steve has said they're working on both at the same time. Throwing the resource needed for OMG into the Bagration team instead probably wouldn't bring the release date noticeably closer. Uh. Divided resources make both late, no? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sburke Posted June 29, 2013 Share Posted June 29, 2013 Uh. Divided resources make both late, no? only if both projects require the same resources in question. If project A only requires the resources of team 1 and project B based on it's state only requires the resources of team 2 then the answer is no. Considering neither you nor any of us out here really know the answer to that, it is kind of a mute point... or red herring. And regardless of it is true or not, it is BF's decision right? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PanzerMike Posted June 29, 2013 Share Posted June 29, 2013 Everybody is entitled to their own opinion, but ultimately it does not matter, BFC calls the shots. MG is on, and I am glad it is :-) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanir Ausf B Posted June 29, 2013 Share Posted June 29, 2013 According to BFC the MG module is not being made by the same "team" making the East Front game. It's being made by the team that is going to do Shock Force 2. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LukeFF Posted June 29, 2013 Share Posted June 29, 2013 Outside a group of Market Garden enthusiasts nobody cares, really. The following of MG might be vocal but it's very small compared to e.g. Normandy. And on what do you base that opinion? EDIT: now I see you based it on a poll at another forum. Wow, that's some scientific research right there. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kohlenklau Posted June 29, 2013 Share Posted June 29, 2013 So, I wonder who is gonna do the OMG pre-release AAR battle? Bil H and GaJ? And more importantly when? Or maybe we got the Scenario Design AAR thing with JonS instead? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwolf Posted June 29, 2013 Share Posted June 29, 2013 And on what do you base that opinion? EDIT: now I see you based it on a poll at another forum. Wow, that's some scientific research right there. You are free to provide better data. Maybe a book count on Amazon, including sales rank? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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