Battlefront.com Posted May 23, 2013 Share Posted May 23, 2013 Now that Gustav Line is out it's time to start the process of informing you about Combat Mission: Market Garden. But it will take a little while before we start putting out screenshots and other bits. Portraying the battles of Market Garden posed unique challenges to us on the development end. Specifically that Market Garden requires British and Waffen SS units, which are part of the Commonwealth module. And yet our philosophy is to never require players to purchase Module A to play Module B. Likewise, our philosophy is to not duplicate content in Modules because we don't want to double charge those who want both. Interesting dilema we got ourselves into, eh? Instead of canceling Market Garden (CM:MG), which we did contemplate, we decided to pack Market Garden so full of new stuff that people will find value in it and minimize the overlap with Commonwealth that people won't feel like they are buying stuff they might already have. So here's an overview of what's being included: 1. Basic Waffen SS and British units which represent those units that fought directly in the Market Garden battles. Which means the majority of units found in Commonwealth are not present in CM:MG. 2. New German Heer, Waffen SS, and Luftwaffe units have been added which aren't present in Commonwealth. These better portray the scratch formations which made up the bulk of the early German resistance to the landings. Training, security, school, admin personnel, etc. are available. 3. We've added German Navy units. These poor saps were base and ex-ship personnel thrown into battle without much consideration about their fighting capabilities (which were next to none). In fact, this is the first time we've ever had Navy ground units in a CM game. Though to be honest, it's mostly for flavor as organizationally they weren't that much different from horribly stripped down and under equipped Heer units. Still, it's better to give you explicitly tweaked units than to say "imagine those Heer guys are Navy". 4. AAA units are present for the first time on the Western Front. Not only the sorts of AAA stuff found in Gustav Line, but some new fun things like Wirbelwind and Crusader AA. 5. The Germans also now have access to Panzer Brigades. These armor heavy units are uniquely organized and contain the ever fun SPW 251/21 in large numbers. 6. Fallschirmjäger are now present, all the way from June through September. 7. Some new vehicle variants for all forces just to keep things interesting. 8. New terrain features to create the feeling you're battling in The Netherlands and not France. Yes, we have even included a windmill 9. Bridges. Lots of 'em We are including 5 custom made historically accurate bridges, a canal bridge, and 3 new generic long bridges. Some, like the Arnhem road bridge, are massive. For the larger ones we include "stubs" which map makers can use to simulate fights around the entrance to a bridge without having the other 500+ meters stuck in there. And before the questions start flying about what new game features are to be added... a reminder that as a rule Modules do not add new game elements unless they are directly necessary for that particular Module. Besides the new bridges and some other terrain related stuff, we don't see the need for new features and therefore there won't be many directly related to Market Garden. However, anything new that was added for Gustav Line will be automatically carried over to the entire Normandy Family of games. Such as new shaders, "movie" lighting, bug fixes, gameplay tweaks, AAA support, etc. No worries there. There's no doubt more stuff than that, but I think that's enough for now to get things started. Steve 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holman Posted May 23, 2013 Share Posted May 23, 2013 Refreshing now! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seedorf81 Posted May 23, 2013 Share Posted May 23, 2013 Very glad to know that we're not forgotten (though you people scared me quite a bit with your remark about cancelling Market Garden!). Any news is always better than no news, and this is GOOD news. Thank you. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erwin Posted May 23, 2013 Share Posted May 23, 2013 All sounds good. And the approx ETA...? (No chance of flavor objects like gliders etc? Also was thinking that if you ever get ammo dumps, it would be nice to have the para supply containers depicted.) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sublime Posted May 23, 2013 Share Posted May 23, 2013 *YAWN* What about Bagration Steve...? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
para Posted May 23, 2013 Share Posted May 23, 2013 (though you people scared me quite a bit with your remark about cancelling Market Garden!). . me too, cancelling??? thankfully they didn't. Great start Steve thanks 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heckler_rider Posted May 23, 2013 Share Posted May 23, 2013 All sounds good. And the approx ETA...? Rumor has it that preorders have already been shipped, but Battlefront is using XXX Corps to deliver it so actual delivery times will vary! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergei Posted May 23, 2013 Share Posted May 23, 2013 In fact, this is the first time we've ever had Navy ground units in a CM game. CMBB's Naval Infantry doesn't count, now? Not even to mention USMC... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergei Posted May 23, 2013 Share Posted May 23, 2013 Rumor has it that preorders have already been shipped, but Battlefront is using XXX Corps to deliver it so actual delivery times will vary! It's cloudy over England so the planes can't take off. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pord Posted May 23, 2013 Share Posted May 23, 2013 Sounds great. Thanks for the update. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battlefront.com Posted May 23, 2013 Author Share Posted May 23, 2013 Quick answers: 1. No ETA, but I'd be surprised if we go through the summer without seeing a release. A TON of work is already done and the testers already have started testing it. Not quite ready to make scenarios though, but that will happen soon. 2. There will be new Flavor Objects, but absolutely no way will there be gliders. The code for Flavor Objects has limitations in terms of the sizes of things which can be portrayed. Gliders are way, way over that limit. 3. Bagration development is going very well. We should have something into testing quite soon, but there's more work to do there than Market Garden so it will certainly be released after. 4. We had Naval Infantry in CMBB? Man, I forgot that! OK, first Naval Infantry for CMx2. I will let the Marines give you their opinion on what they are and aren't. Though I will remind our USMC friends about the Forum rules regarding language and respect for the opinions of others. Despite Sergei being a Finn, he should be treated like any other Human being Steve 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted May 23, 2013 Share Posted May 23, 2013 Despite Sergei being a Finn, he should be treated as if he were a Human being. Fixed that for ya, Steve. And before anybody else asks, will we be able to blow bridges with some kind of demo set up? Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broadsword56 Posted May 23, 2013 Share Posted May 23, 2013 Great and timely news, Steve! Not to look a gift tank in the mouth, but... Are any Volksgrenadier units to be included in MG? And if so, will they have the dreaded MP44 assault rifle (even though, to be sure, it was rare at this stage)? Is it true that the season-setting capability in MG will end with autumn (because that's when this campaign ended)? In other words, no ability to design snow/winter maps like in GL? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elmar Bijlsma Posted May 23, 2013 Share Posted May 23, 2013 In fact, this is the first time we've ever had Navy ground units in a CM game. Even more fact: the Russians had naval infantry in CMBB. You are forgiven for this grievous error only because: Crusader AA. *hug* Now... back to work on flamethrowers, please. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waycool Posted May 23, 2013 Share Posted May 23, 2013 When can I preorder this badboy Looking forward to MG. Seeing how the Netherlands are being modeled , polders I need polders lol 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battlefront.com Posted May 23, 2013 Author Share Posted May 23, 2013 Sergei beat you to it, Elmar I was thinking we didn't have German Naval Infantry in the game, forgetting all about the Soviets. No Volksgrenadiers in the battles for the Rhine bridges so they aren't going to be present in Market Garden. Likewise, no snow (except on the Zeedijk ). However, VG units might be coming into a Pack for Normandy. Their big day of glory, along with snow, will be in the Bulge Family. That one will pick up where Normandy ends and go through to the end of the war. Steve 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holman Posted May 23, 2013 Share Posted May 23, 2013 Man, Gustav Line doesn't get the glory of the headlines for ONE WEEK before the Western Front jumps up and hogs all the attention. Just kidding. What great news! It's hard to believe that we'll be playing the Bulge and the Eastern Front in less than a year, too. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baneman Posted May 23, 2013 Share Posted May 23, 2013 Man, Gustav Line doesn't get the glory of the headlines for ONE WEEK before the Western Front jumps up and hogs all the attention. ... lol, history repeats itself in wargame 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patboy Posted May 23, 2013 Share Posted May 23, 2013 Sorry if that already dicussed before, when the german para units comes to complete Normandy theatre? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kohlenklau Posted May 23, 2013 Share Posted May 23, 2013 Forgive a non-3D computer graphics artist a question: Can somehow one of the smaller 1 story barn buildings be modeled as a glider? Or perhaps phrased in the vice versa? Wings ripped off at least? Just a crazy idea from the peanut gallery. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pak40 Posted May 23, 2013 Share Posted May 23, 2013 And before anybody else asks, will we be able to blow bridges with some kind of demo set up? I hope so. It seems like the logical thing to do would be to tie "Demo" of the bridge to a touch or secure objective. That way, if an allied unit touches or secures and objective then the bridge will be saved before the opposing side can prime the xplody things. Another question which I think Steve is dreading: Will there be carry over damage to map elements in campaigns? It seems like this is almost a requirement for MG since so many battles were fought over the same ground over and over. I know this can currently be fudged in the editor by actually saving an existing map and applying damage to the buildings but it will awfully funny when some buildings that have collapsed will suddenly be re-built in the next battle. And because I know that Steve has nothing better to do , I have one final quesiton: If I start building my own MG scenario now will I be able to import it into the MG module? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sublime Posted May 23, 2013 Share Posted May 23, 2013 I highly doubt both. Including in game blown bridges or persistent damage would be directly at odds with Steves earlier post in this thread regarding the difference in Modules of 'features', as opposed to iterations of the engine. I think we'll have to wait for x3 for all that. Of course I hope we do... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battlefront.com Posted May 23, 2013 Author Share Posted May 23, 2013 Sublime is correct. Bridge demolition is not something we will likely ever support. As much as people think it's important to WW2 combat, it isn't. Not at CM's scale. We can not afford to be distracted by things like that. No support for persistent map damage anticipated in the near future as far as I can see. It's more complicated than just reusing a damaged map from a previous battle. But I'm not ruling out at least examining it for Market Garden. Steve 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fenris Posted May 23, 2013 Share Posted May 23, 2013 Sorry if that already dicussed before, when the german para units comes to complete Normandy theatre? Nice to hear some news, looking forward to it, thanks. Interested in this one too. -F 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRMC1879 Posted May 23, 2013 Share Posted May 23, 2013 Sublime is correct. Bridge demolition is not something we will likely ever support. As much as people think it's important to WW2 combat, it isn't. Not at CM's scale. We can not afford to be distracted by things like that. No support for persistent map damage anticipated in the near future as far as I can see. It's more complicated than just reusing a damaged map from a previous battle. But I'm not ruling out at least examining it for Market Garden. Steve assault boats ? Well... thats at least relevant to market garden ... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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