The start of actual news

[jakla1027]

Yanks aren't getting much new because the focus of Market Garden is on, er, Market Garden But we like to make exceptions to rules and therefore the Yanks do get some new stuff. Not a lot, though.

Steve

Thanks for the answer Steve. Cant wait for MG.

I'd be happy with two things in MG for the Americans. M18 Hellcat & Winchester 1897 Trench gun for American Squads. (albeit it VERY!!! limited numbers, like the FG42 in Gustav Line) House to house fighting with an 1897, that'd be interesting:D

[Michael Emrys]

I don't want to get into a grog argument ( since I have no ammunition ), but I thought I read recently ( may well have been here ) that the Sherman Jumbo had been debunked - either didn't reach battlefield in numbers or were only a few field mods ?

Maybe I misremember what I read though.

Well, yes and no. Applying applique armor as a field expedient was certainly done, even to the extent of cutting off the entire glacis of a destroyed Sherman and welding it onto the front of another.

However, the M4A3E2, nicknamed "Jumbo" was an official upgrade produced in the Grand Blanc factory in early 1944 to the tune of a total of 254 completed tanks.

Michael

[togi]

Okay if you are going to insist on suggesting the content to something that isn't even fully fleshed out is insufficient, then perhaps we should review what we got from the ... err... umm... .. Steve's mouth. My highlights added.

yes if we examine only heer marines, wind mills and great bridges , some rare vehicle units will be added.

other units are coming from bn or cw as I understand except fallschirmajagers

[Baneman]

Cheers for the Jumbo grogness

[JRMC1879]

price is obvius because it's module and 35 usd

but content will not appropriate to be even a candidate for module

let's match with great GL module

regards

Well, then dont friggin buy it ... jezus the want something for nothing brigade have arrived before the things even half done.

[Michael Emrys]

Cheers for the Jumbo grogness

My pleasure! BTW, that info came by way of Chamberlain & Ellis.

Michael

[JonS]

yes if we examine only heer marines, wind mills and great bridges , some rare vehicle units will be added.

other units are coming from bn or cw as I understand except fallschirmajagers

well, sure. If you exclude a whole lot of stuff that's going to be included, and misunderstand the remainder, then yeah: there's virtually nothing in the MG module

[Michael Emrys]

well, sure. If you exclude a whole lot of stuff that's going to be included, and misunderstand the remainder, then yeah: there's virtually nothing in the MG module

LOL!

And if we exclude everything between Lexington and Yorktown, the American Revolution never really happened.

Michael

[Battlefront.com]

Quick answers:

1. CMBN's timeframe extends to the end of September. Bulge will start in October and go through to the end of the war. Therefore all questions about winter stuff, vehicles introduced in October, etc. are easily answered now

2. Yup, Jumbos were used in theater. Just very, very small numbers. Similar with the Pershing. I even have a book by a gunner who crewed a Pershing in the final weeks of the war. He's the guy, unknown to him at the time, that knocked out a King Tiger.

3. Some of you have expressed surprise that we thought of canceling Market Garden. The only reason why was I was initially unsure how to put enough content into Market Garden to justify the $35 pricetag and not, at the same time, making Commonwealth a redundant product. Fortunately, I was able to work around the inherent conflicts (see original post) and put together more than enough content for it to be Module.

4. Togi has a history of wildly undervaluing the costs of what we do. So it is not surprising, yet again, to see him wanting something for nothing. Consistency is some people's strong point See above point and reread my initial post. If we did not have enough content to justifiably call this a Module we'd chop a ton of stuff out of it and release the greatly reduced content as a Pack. But of course Togi would then want us to price the Pack at $2 because we "removed" stuff from it. We know we can't win with some people and that's fine. He can still buy or not buy based on his concept of value and not have it affect the rest of us.

Our job as developers is to make products for customers that they want at a price they feel is fair. We've done a very good job with that so far, and in fact I think many of our customers would say we've over delivered for the prices we charge. We've also gone out of our way to not trick or require people to purchase things they don't want. I'm sure we're not going to let you down with Market Garden.

Steve

[JRMC1879]

Quick answers:

1. CMBN's timeframe extends to the end of September. Bulge will start in October and go through to the end of the war. Therefore all questions about winter stuff, vehicles introduced in October, etc. are easily answered now

2. Yup, Jumbos were used in theater. Just very, very small numbers. Similar with the Pershing. I even have a book by a gunner who crewed a Pershing in the final weeks of the war. He's the guy, unknown to him at the time, that knocked out a King Tiger.

3. Some of you have expressed surprise that we thought of canceling Market Garden. The only reason why was I was initially unsure how to put enough content into Market Garden to justify the $35 pricetag and not, at the same time, making Commonwealth a redundant product. Fortunately, I was able to work around the inherent conflicts (see original post) and put together more than enough content for it to be Module.

4. Togi has a history of wildly undervaluing the costs of what we do. So it is not surprising, yet again, to see him wanting something for nothing. Consistency is some people's strong point See above point and reread my initial post. If we did not have enough content to justifiably call this a Module we'd chop a ton of stuff out of it and release the greatly reduced content as a Pack. But of course Togi would then want us to price the Pack at $2 because we "removed" stuff from it. We know we can't win with some people and that's fine. He can still buy or not buy based on his concept of value and not have it affect the rest of us.

Our job as developers is to make products for customers that they want at a price they feel is fair. We've done a very good job with that so far, and in fact I think many of our customers would say we've over delivered for the prices we charge. We've also gone out of our way to not trick or require people to purchase things they don't want. I'm sure we're not going to let you down with Market Garden.

Steve

God, I still havent played half the stuff that was in CMBN - let alone the 3 other games ...

[togi]

Quick answers:

1. CMBN's timeframe extends to the end of September. Bulge will start in October and go through to the end of the war. Therefore all questions about winter stuff, vehicles introduced in October, etc. are easily answered now

2. Yup, Jumbos were used in theater. Just very, very small numbers. Similar with the Pershing. I even have a book by a gunner who crewed a Pershing in the final weeks of the war. He's the guy, unknown to him at the time, that knocked out a King Tiger.

3. Some of you have expressed surprise that we thought of canceling Market Garden. The only reason why was I was initially unsure how to put enough content into Market Garden to justify the $35 pricetag and not, at the same time, making Commonwealth a redundant product. Fortunately, I was able to work around the inherent conflicts (see original post) and put together more than enough content for it to be Module.

4. Togi has a history of wildly undervaluing the costs of what we do. So it is not surprising, yet again, to see him wanting something for nothing. Consistency is some people's strong point See above point and reread my initial post. If we did not have enough content to justifiably call this a Module we'd chop a ton of stuff out of it and release the greatly reduced content as a Pack. But of course Togi would then want us to price the Pack at $2 because we "removed" stuff from it. We know we can't win with some people and that's fine. He can still buy or not buy based on his concept of value and not have it affect the rest of us.

Our job as developers is to make products for customers that they want at a price they feel is fair. We've done a very good job with that so far, and in fact I think many of our customers would say we've over delivered for the prices we charge. We've also gone out of our way to not trick or require people to purchase things they don't want. I'm sure we're not going to let you down with Market Garden.

Steve

yes steve

you remember me, if you compare GL module and this module, you will see the difference.

content is not equal with GL , even CW module. So how is a module?

when we will see the packs?

Regards

[ChrisND]

yes steve

you remember me, if you compare GL module and this module, you will see the difference.

content is not equal with GL , even CW module. So how is a module?

when we will see your famous packs?

Regards

If anything, we packed more stuff than we really should have into Gustav Line.

Example: AA Guns. These weren't even on the original pitch list I sent to Steve. Only after I heard that that AA guns were being made for Market Garden, did I rope them into Gustav Line as well. They're practically a freebie for people who bought Gustav Line.

We could have gone with a shorter timeframe for the module, and made it just Salerno and the British side of Sicily, or something like that, left AA guns for Market Garden as they had intended to be, and dodged having to do winter. Then we wouldn't have to deal with an unrealistic and heightened sense of entitlement from some people afterwards, and it still would have been enough content for a module.

[Battlefront.com]

yes steve

you remember me, if you compare GL module and this module, you will see the difference. content is not equal with GL , even CW module.

Correct, there are more new units in Gustav Line than Market Garden. And Commonwealth Module has more units than Gustav Line. But of course you look at things the wrong way. We should be charging $45 for Gustav Line and $50 for Commonwealth Module, not less for Market Garden. Of course I don't expect you to agree

when we will see the packs?

Probably at least 1 or 2 this year, maybe more. And the list of items for those will be significantly less than Market Garden.

It is impossible to say that a Module or a Pack will only have x stuff and never more or less. Some Modules will have more than others. Some Packs will have more than others. But a Module will always have more than a Pack.

Steve

[Battlefront.com]

Heh... cross posted

Yup, if people are going to bitch about how much stuff they don't get in X Module and demand a lower price, then they should bitch about how they got undercharged for Module Y and demand to pay more. Not that I expect that will happen, just saying that for every action there should be an equal and opposite reaction.

I also agree that the weather and terrain stuff in Gustav Line is worth $10 right there. So I guess we should have charged $50 for Commonwealth and $55 for Gustav Line.

Steve

If anything, we packed more stuff than we really should have into Gustav Line.

Example: AA Guns. These weren't even on the original pitch list I sent to Steve. Only after I heard that that AA guns were being made for Market Garden, did I rope them into Gustav Line as well. They're practically a freebie for people who bought Gustav Line.

We could have gone with a shorter timeframe for the module, and made it just Salerno and the British side of Sicily, or something like that, left AA guns for Market Garden as they had intended to be, and dodged having to do winter. Then we wouldn't have to deal with an unrealistic and heightened sense of entitlement from some people afterwards, and it still would have been enough content for a module.

[Sergei]

I'm really pissed how in Combat Mission Afrika Korps I got Crete, Ethiopia, North Africa and the entire Italian campaign for the price of one game, whereas CMFI comes nowhere close to that, not even with the separate Gustav Line module.

PISSED, do you hear?!?

[Vark]

I'm still working out how MG will play out without flamethrowers. Talking of objects, will you have the waist-high wire fences that channelled and slowed infantry movement?

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-DNL4-9VTjJk/UKk6L6BEyeI/AAAAAAAAAHQ/VEa3wTJkDRI/s1600/633px-Soldiers_on_their_way_to_Arnhem.jpg

[Buzz]

"Our job as developers is to make products for customers that they want at a price they feel is fair."

Fair enough. It says plenty to me when the purveyors of product politely reply to "complaints" about pricing, etc. on their company forum.

What I don't understand is how folks undervaluing products don't "get it". If they really think the product value is unfair then don't purchase the product. Simple.

I can understand cash limits but in that case buy one product and play the heck out of it.

I too do not have enough hours in my play time to exhaust one of the CMX2 games or my CMSF Mac Bundle!

[Buzz]

I'm really pissed how in Combat Mission Afrika Korps I got Crete, Ethiopia, North Africa and the entire Italian campaign for the price of one game, whereas CMFI comes nowhere close to that, not even with the separate Gustav Line module.

PISSED, do you hear?!?

Yeah me too!

[The Steppenwulf]

Jacksons, Pershings, Jumbos and without doubt the JagdTiger too: I fear the 'Road to Berlin' will aggravate my priapic condition and leave me hospitalised in a persistent drooling stupour. I must stop reading this thread.

[Battlefront.com]

What I don't understand is how folks undervaluing products don't "get it". If they really think the product value is unfair then don't purchase the product. Simple.

Because some people fundamentally do not believe in free markets any more than they believe in Democracy. Their goal is to get something for less than it should cost, not to have a choice between buying or not buying. Similarly the people who heaped hate on us for CMx2 instead of just moving on with their lives. They think minority opinion should trump majority opinion for (insert self serving logic here).

It's the same reason I just shake my head when a supporter of an extreme political party says that Democracy is dead. No, by definition Democracy does require majority consent, and by definition an extreme party does not represent the majority. Try making that argument to an extremist and see what happens. Just be prepared to duck/run because they tend not to like being confused by facts

And to Sergei... I haven't had to say this to anybody on this Forum in a long time:

Bite Me

Steve

[ChrisND]

And to Sergei... I haven't had to say this to anybody on this Forum in a long time:

Bite Me

You really shouldn't joke about that, he'll do it.

[Michael Emrys]

And to Sergei... I haven't had to say this to anybody on this Forum in a long time:

Bite Me

Careful, Steve. His saliva is probably toxic.

Michael

[Battlefront.com]

Careful, Steve. His saliva is probably toxic.

I thought about that, but isn't Finnish vodka equivalent to rubbing alcohol? If so then I'm sure he's got fewer pathogens in him than most of the rest of us.

Steve

[Sergei]

Molotov cocktail recipe

2 parts ethanol

2 parts kerosine (can be substituted with brandy)

1 part pine tar (can be substituted with tar schnapps)

Drink straight from the bottle.

[Battlefront.com]

Does the tar make it harder to stir, or do you always go for shaken like 007? How many olives go in that? Or do Finns not care for olives? Inquiring minds want to know

Steve