Combat Mission Cold War - British Army On the Rhine

[chuckdyke]

25 minutes ago, Halmbarte said:

What are the UK infantry equipped with to deal with tanks? No HMG or ATGMs is going to be rough. 

H

They had the Carl Gustaf.

[Halmbarte]

Well, I guess that's better than a pointed stick...

H

[domfluff]

17 hours ago, Halmbarte said:

What are the UK infantry equipped with to deal with tanks? No HMG or ATGMs is going to be rough. 

H

Chieftain, mainly

So, Carl Gustav was the main section AT, alongside a pair of LAW.

Milan was the main dismounted ATGM. Wombat was a 120mm recoilless rifle from the 1950s, but Milan is correct for the time period currently in the game (we might get both).

Swingfire was the more powerful, longer ranged ATGM, and that would be mounted on FV432 or CVR(T) ("Swingfire" or "Striker")

One thing you're going to find is that, similar to WW2, the BAOR should be made up of specialists. A single element isn't expected to be able to do everything, and you'll need to court synergies to be effective. As a simple example, the M60 MBT is more or less an all-rounder. It's not the fastest tank, doesn't have the biggest gun or the most armour, but it's at least acceptable at everything, and as such can play multiple roles and enable others. Chieftain is designed for a more defensive, static battle, so has a ton of armour and firepower (especially for the 1960s when it was introduced), but sacrifices mobility to do so.

That means that they should generally be a little harder to use than the US, but potentially more effective if you can use them well.

[HerrTom]

Speaking of Swingfire, any chance we will be able to dismount the gunner and fire it over ridges? That non line of sight capability is pretty unique and it would be cool to see how useful it actually would have been!

[domfluff]

I think that's pretty unlikely in practice, which is a shame. It's something which the AT-3 can do as well on a smaller scale.

[Halmbarte]

1 hour ago, HerrTom said:

Speaking of Swingfire, any chance we will be able to dismount the gunner and fire it over ridges? That non line of sight capability is pretty unique and it would be cool to see how useful it actually would have been!

Every Marder in SF2 & every BMP should be able to dismount its ATGM too, but we can't. 

Carl & MILAN should be doable for anti-armor weapons. I remember the MILAN has a 400m(!) min range and I'd expect Carl to cover what the ATGMs can't. Although I'm suspicious of the ability of an unguided rocket to hit moving targets at 400m. My preference when I have RPGs is to set the engagement range to ~200m for better chances of actually getting a hit. 

H

[Aragorn2002]

20 hours ago, chuckdyke said:

They had the Carl Gustaf.

So did the dutch army. Made a lot of noise, but did the job.

[kohlenklau]

I don't own CMCW.

I am not saying it is the greatest thing since sliced bread but has anybody tackled into a winter mod for CMCW? I checked CMMODSIV but didn't see anything. I thought I saw a @37mm screenshot but who knows. 

It has its limitations and issues to mod it over to CMCW. Fake snow. But in my experience the REAL 1980's CMCW snow (not Miami Vice cocaine) is realistically many years away - with no jab meant at the guys driving the bus.

Maybe  I should lay down on a couch and talk to an attractive female therapist with her top button hopefully unbuttoned but as soon as I see CMCW I somehow start thinking to make CMCW Yom Kippur and as soon as I heard of CMCW BAOR I am thinking to make CMCW Falklands. It is my mental issue I guess.

 

 

 

Edited February 5, 2023 by kohlenklau

[Sequoia]

On 3/26/2021 at 3:58 AM, Cpl Steiner said:

The opportunities for this are endless. Foot patrols in South Armagh. Mercenaries in Africa. Falklands War. All doable if we have late 70s, early 80s British Commonwealth equipment.

[Sequoia]

On 3/31/2021 at 12:52 PM, Combatintman said:

A heap more than that ...

Cyprus, Dar Mutiny, Oman, Malaya, Borneo, South Arabia (Aden) are just a few that spring to mind with a bit of modding.

Obviously mate

[37mm]

8 hours ago, kohlenklau said:

I don't own CMCW.

I am not saying it is the greatest thing since sliced bread but has anybody tackled into a winter mod for CMCW? I checked CMMODSIV but didn't see anything. I thought I saw a @37mm screenshot but who knows. 

It has its limitations and issues to mod it over to CMCW. Fake snow. But in my experience the REAL 1980's CMCW snow (not Miami Vice cocaine) is realistically many years away - with no jab meant at the guys driving the bus.

Maybe  I should lay down on a couch and talk to an attractive female therapist with her top button hopefully unbuttoned but as soon as I see CMCW I somehow start thinking to make CMCW Yom Kippur and as soon as I heard of CMCW BAOR I am thinking to make CMCW Falklands. It is my mental issue I guess.

 

The initial CMCW 'All in One' came with a "Rudimentary Winter mod".

I do intend to look into improving and expanding it in the future... but it's quite low on my priority list.

[Aragorn2002]

11 hours ago, kohlenklau said:

I don't own CMCW.

I am not saying it is the greatest thing since sliced bread but has anybody tackled into a winter mod for CMCW? I checked CMMODSIV but didn't see anything. I thought I saw a @37mm screenshot but who knows. 

It has its limitations and issues to mod it over to CMCW. Fake snow. But in my experience the REAL 1980's CMCW snow (not Miami Vice cocaine) is realistically many years away - with no jab meant at the guys driving the bus.

Maybe  I should lay down on a couch and talk to an attractive female therapist with her top button hopefully unbuttoned but as soon as I see CMCW I somehow start thinking to make CMCW Yom Kippur and as soon as I heard of CMCW BAOR I am thinking to make CMCW Falklands. It is my mental issue I guess.

 

 

 

To encourage you, Phil, personally I like your winter mod for CMRT even better than the the winter look in FR., which is already very good.

Edited February 6, 2023 by Aragorn2002

[DanonQM]

15 hours ago, HerrTom said:

Speaking of Swingfire, any chance we will be able to dismount the gunner and fire it over ridges? That non line of sight capability is pretty unique and it would be cool to see how useful it actually would have been!

I'd really like to see it because it's such a core functionality of the Swingfire and imo really important to understanding the tactical value of platforms equipped with it but I imagine it's probably something that will turn out to not be viable to implement in an economic timeframe sadly.

[Dr.Fusselpulli]

19 hours ago, Aragorn2002 said:

So did the dutch army. Made a lot of noise, but did the job.

The German Bundeswehr had it as well, if I'm not mistaken, it was during the timeframe of Cold War.
As their light Anti-Tank weapon, they had the Panzerfaust Lanze, which looked a bit like an RPG.

[Aragorn2002]

43 minutes ago, Dr.Fusselpulli said:

The German Bundeswehr had it as well, if I'm not mistaken, it was during the timeframe of Cold War.
As their light Anti-Tank weapon, they had the Panzerfaust Lanze, which looked a bit like an RPG.

Hopefully not as heavy as the Carl Gustav. Had to carry that on several occasions and that was no fun.

[Centurian52]

10 hours ago, Dr.Fusselpulli said:

The German Bundeswehr had it as well, if I'm not mistaken, it was during the timeframe of Cold War.
As their light Anti-Tank weapon, they had the Panzerfaust Lanze, which looked a bit like an RPG.

I believe the Bundeswehr was using the Panzerfaust 44 (44 referring to the size, in mm, of the barrel) during the timeframe of CMCW (entered service in 1967, phased out in the 1990s as it was gradually replaced by the Panzerfaust 3 from 1987 on (I'm sure we all remember the Panzerfaust 3 from CMSF2)). It's one of the reasons I was hoping to get the Bundeswehr in this module (not that I mind getting the BAOR instead). Similar to the RPG-7 in a lot of ways. Reloadable, with a similar range to and slightly better penetration than the RPG-7 (with the PG-7V rocket), rocket was bigger than the barrel (67mm to the barrel's 44mm, so you get a similar look with a larger warhead sticking out of a smaller barrel). Basically I think it would have played a lot like having RPG-7s on the blue team. Oh well, I'm sure we'll get it next time. And we have Chieftains as a consolation prize, so I can't really complain.

Edited February 7, 2023 by Centurian52

[Halmbarte]

30 minutes ago, Centurian52 said:

I believe the Bundeswehr was using the Panzerfaust 44 (44 referring to the size, in mm, of the barrel) during the timeframe of CMCW (entered service in 1967, phased out in the 1990s as it was gradually replaced by the Panzerfaust 3 from 1987 on (I'm sure we all remember the Panzerfaust 3 from CMSF2)). It's one of the reasons I was hoping to get the Bundeswehr in this module (not that I mind getting the BAOR instead). Similar to the RPG-7 in a lot of ways. Reloadable, with a similar range to and slightly better penetration than the RPG-7 (with the PG-7V rocket), rocket was bigger than the barrel (67mm to the barrel's 44mm, so you get a similar look with a larger warhead sticking out of a smaller barrel). Basically I think it would have played a lot like having RPG-7s on the blue team. Oh well, I'm sure we'll get it next time. And we have Chieftains as a consolation prize, so I can't really complain.

Huh, I had always assumed the 44 was a reference to 1944 and that the rocket was a WWII wunderwaffe that hadn't made it to the troops before the war ended. 

H

[Dr.Fusselpulli]

8 hours ago, Centurian52 said:

I believe the Bundeswehr was using the Panzerfaust 44

Yes, Panzerfaust 44 is the same as Panzerfaust Lanze, just a different name.
But as far as I know, they had the Carl Gustav at the same time. Maybe as "Panzerfaust 84"?

@Halmbarte
Yeah, that might be confusing. The Wehrmacht used those numbers to describe dates.
But in the Bundeswehr, at least for the handheld Anti-Tank weapons, it's mm. Until the Panzerfaust-3 came and it seems to be a succession number?

Edited February 7, 2023 by Dr.Fusselpulli

[DesertFox]

2 hours ago, Dr.Fusselpulli said:

Yes, Panzerfaust 44 is the same as Panzerfaust Lanze, just a different name.
But as far as I know, they had the Carl Gustav at the same time. Maybe as "Panzerfaust 84"?

True, I was trained on both back in 1988. PzFaust3 only came 1992.

[MHW]

I'm unreasonably enthusiastic about sending tanks tearing around the Suffield prairies or the woods of Gagetown, but yet another training campaign is probably a big ask.

Edited to add: I'll have a go at a scenario, but I've never set foot anywhere west of Toronto.

Edited February 8, 2023 by MHW

[Bufo]

On 2/1/2023 at 4:50 PM, The_Capt said:

We are setting the clock back to 1976, so CMCW will now encompass 1976-1982

Very glad to hear!

[QuiGon]

On 2/7/2023 at 2:56 AM, Centurian52 said:

I believe the Bundeswehr was using the Panzerfaust 44 (44 referring to the size, in mm, of the barrel) during the timeframe of CMCW (entered service in 1967, phased out in the 1990s as it was gradually replaced by the Panzerfaust 3 from 1987 on (I'm sure we all remember the Panzerfaust 3 from CMSF2)). It's one of the reasons I was hoping to get the Bundeswehr in this module (not that I mind getting the BAOR instead). Similar to the RPG-7 in a lot of ways. Reloadable, with a similar range to and slightly better penetration than the RPG-7 (with the PG-7V rocket), rocket was bigger than the barrel (67mm to the barrel's 44mm, so you get a similar look with a larger warhead sticking out of a smaller barrel). Basically I think it would have played a lot like having RPG-7s on the blue team. Oh well, I'm sure we'll get it next time. And we have Chieftains as a consolation prize, so I can't really complain.

They used both during the late Cold War: PzF44 was the light AT ("Leichte Panzerfaust") and the Carl Gustav was the heavy AT ("Schwere Panzerfaust"). After the Cold War and the introduction of the current Panzerfaust 3 the Carl Gustav actually remained in service with the Bundeswehr as a provider for battlefield illumination ("Leuchtbüchse"). It was used in this role in Afghanistan to launch illumination flares at night to illuminate the area.

[QuiGon]

DP...

Edited February 8, 2023 by QuiGon

[kohlenklau]

On 2/6/2023 at 1:25 AM, Aragorn2002 said:

To encourage you, Phil

I appreciate any encouragement but it seems @37mm is already on the job to eventually expand winter effects to CMCW. He says his CMCW "All in One" ALREADY has a rudimentary snow and winter mod.  Go for it guys.

Best wishes to you all, Phil

[Centurian52]

On 2/7/2023 at 2:02 AM, Dr.Fusselpulli said:

Yes, Panzerfaust 44 is the same as Panzerfaust Lanze, just a different name.
But as far as I know, they had the Carl Gustav at the same time. Maybe as "Panzerfaust 84"?

@Halmbarte
Yeah, that might be confusing. The Wehrmacht used those numbers to describe dates.
But in the Bundeswehr, at least for the handheld Anti-Tank weapons, it's mm. Until the Panzerfaust-3 came and it seems to be a succession number?

Thanks. Rereading Dr.Fusselpulli's comment, I really should have figured out from the context that the Panzerfaust Lanze and Panzerfaust 44 were one and the same.

Yeah, there doesn't seem to be any consistent system. The Panzerfaust 30 and Panzerfaust 60 of WW2 were named for their effective ranges in meters (does anyone remember if the Panzerfaust 100 ever saw the light of day?). The Panzerfaust 44 was named for the size of its barrel in mm. And the Panzerfaust 3 does seem to be named for its succession number. I think it's a matter of tradition at this point that the successor to the Panzerfaust 3 will have to be named according to an entirely different naming convention from any of the previous Panzerfausts (they could go by date (ex: Panzerfaust 27 if it comes out in 2027) or perhaps use the American system and call it the M1 Panzerfaust).

Edited February 8, 2023 by Centurian52