Combat Mission Cold War - British Army On the Rhine

[danfrodo]

2 hours ago, Halmbarte said:

I am too, but I know it'll probably be a bad as the M60 vs the Sov stuff. 

H

So the chieftain gun not any better than the M60 gun?  Maybe some experts here have some insight on this?

[ThathumanHayden]

55 minutes ago, danfrodo said:

So the chieftain gun not any better than the M60 gun?  Maybe some experts here have some insight on this?

It's a 120 instead of the 105, but the big handicap is probably going to be the ammo. IIRC the Brits only introduced a modern fin round in 83 or 84, so in the time frame you're going to have a 60s-era apds in all likelihood. Probably a bit better than the early m60a1, but probably not as good as the a3s or the m1s sabot. Still, it's a lot of kinetic energy, so I still don't want to be on the receiving end of it.

[Halmbarte]

9 hours ago, danfrodo said:

So the chieftain gun not any better than the M60 gun?  Maybe some experts here have some insight on this?

Leaving aside the details of the LOS armor (or would it be armour?) and the gun caliber, I was more going for the tactical impact of the Chieftain. 

The gun is going to struggle against T64s, and it is going to die from frontal shots from Sov 115mm or better guns (and probably 100mm HEAT from T55s). 

H

[danfrodo]

Thanks for the info @ThathumanHayden and @Halmbarte    But y'all are making me sad.  I want to destroy T64s, by the dozens.  Nothing worse than rounds bouncing off a T64.  A sherman or T34 vs panther frontal armor I am used to bouncing shells, but in the cold war I really want to win.   Once the module arrives I am sure I will welcome the challenge.  I suppose I should think of how I handle shermans, where I need to be creative if I'm gonna win against superior armor.  

I wonder if we'll get a brit module someday with the challenger 1s?  Will those shred T64s?

 

[Centurian52]

11 hours ago, danfrodo said:

So the chieftain gun not any better than the M60 gun?  Maybe some experts here have some insight on this?

The L23 APFSDS doesn't enter service until after CMCW's timeframe. So the Chieftain is still using the L15 APDS, which doesn't outperform any of the M60's AP ammo except perhaps the M728 APDS round at some ranges. Still, a larger caliber means it can fire a bigger HE round. And the Chieftain has a HESH round, while the M60 (at least in-game) only has HEAT for anti-personnel work. So the Chieftain will not outperform the M60 in this timeframe in anti-armor work*. But it should be much more impressive when performing anti-fortification and anti-personnel work.

The gun itself is probably better than the M60's gun. But a gun by itself produces no effect. It's the gun + ammo that actually has an effect.

*Excepting that it may be more accurate than the M60A1. Certainly more accurate than the base M60A1, though I'm not sure if that still applies after the assorted RISE, RISE+, and RISE Passive upgrades.

Edited April 30 by Centurian52

[Halmbarte]

12 hours ago, Centurian52 said:

The L23 APFSDS doesn't enter service until after CMCW's timeframe. So the Chieftain is still using the L15 APDS, which doesn't outperform any of the M60's AP ammo except perhaps the M728 APDS round at some ranges. Still, a larger caliber means it can fire a bigger HE round. And the Chieftain has a HESH round, while the M60 (at least in-game) only has HEAT for anti-personnel work. So the Chieftain will not outperform the M60 in this timeframe in anti-armor work*. But it should be much more impressive when performing anti-fortification and anti-personnel work.

The gun itself is probably better than the M60's gun. But a gun by itself produces no effect. It's the gun + ammo that actually has an effect.

*Excepting that it may be more accurate than the M60A1. Certainly more accurate than the base M60A1, though I'm not sure if that still applies after the assorted RISE, RISE+, and RISE Passive upgrades.

When did Chieftain get laser range finding? 

It’s always disheartening to be up against T55s with M60A1s only to be outshot at range and then realize that the T55s have the strap on laser range finders. 
H

[Centurian52]

16 hours ago, Halmbarte said:

When did Chieftain get laser range finding? 

According to Wikipedia (so, grain of salt) the first version of the Chieftain to be fitted with the Barr & Stroud TLS (Tank Laser Sight) was the Mk 3/3 in 1971.

So I'm guessing they will have laser rangefinders in the 1976-1982 timeframe that we're concerned with. That might put them on par with the M60A3 in terms of accuracy against stationary targets. No mention of automatic lead on the Wiki page, so probably not as accurate as the M60A3 against moving targets.

[Centurian52]

16 hours ago, Halmbarte said:

It’s always disheartening to be up against T55s with M60A1s only to be outshot at range and then realize that the T55s have the strap on laser range finders. 

Wait do the T-55s have laser range finders? I thought it was the T-62 (specifically the 1975 version) that had the laser range finder fitted (though I'd still expect the 1972 version to outshoot the M60A1 just because it has a higher velocity gun). 

[Halmbarte]

29 minutes ago, Centurian52 said:

Wait do the T-55s have laser range finders? I thought it was the T-62 (specifically the 1975 version) that had the laser range finder fitted (though I'd still expect the 1972 version to outshoot the M60A1 just because it has a higher velocity gun). 

I’m pretty sure I’ve lost M60s to T55s w/LRFs. 
H

[Anthony P.]

That'd be T-62s. T-55s also received the KTD-1/2 laser rangefinder around 1974-75, but the latest T-55 model in game is currently the T-55A (1961).

[Sequoia]

One would think the GSFG would have the most recent equipment. Maybe it will be added.

[Halmbarte]

5 hours ago, Anthony P. said:

That'd be T-62s. T-55s also received the KTD-1/2 laser rangefinder around 1974-75, but the latest T-55 model in game is currently the T-55A (1961).

Isn't the boxy thing above the gun tube on the left tank (T55A)  a LFR retrofit kit? 

H

Edited May 4 by Halmbarte

[Anthony P.]

Huh, would you look at that!

Guess the manual and in game description might need updating to reflect that. The manual says nothing of anything more modern than a baseline T-55A, and the game doesn't mention what year's upgrade it is like it does for the T-62.

[Halmbarte]

52 minutes ago, Anthony P. said:

Huh, would you look at that!

Guess the manual and in game description might need updating to reflect that. The manual says nothing of anything more modern than a baseline T-55A, and the game doesn't mention what year's upgrade it is like it does for the T-62.

Yeah, I started looking more closely & taking T55s more seriously after a scenario where the T55s were getting 1st round hits & killing my M48s w/HEAT while the M48s were doing the one round over, one round under, fire for effect shuffle and dying. 

H

[Lee]

Will England have the Jaguar to call in for airstrikes?  I think it would have been available just in time, especially given the seriousness of this war scenario with all the latest equipment being made immediately available at the front where it's so badly needed.

[slippy]

On 5/11/2024 at 11:34 PM, Lee said:

Will England have the Jaguar to call in for airstrikes?  I think it would have been available just in time, especially given the seriousness of this war scenario with all the latest equipment being made immediately available at the front where it's so badly needed.

England is not the UK!! There are four nations, England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland all of which supply troops and have regiments in the British Army

[Anthony P.]

3 hours ago, slippy said:

England is not the UK!! There are four nations, England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland all of which supply troops and have regiments in the British Army

So... England, Northern England, Southwestern England and Ireland-England?

[Lee]

Yes, I meant Jaguars in support of all the United Kingdom's armed forces, including all the U.K.'s nations' folk the regiments might come from.   Is there any word yet whether they will be included?

[Centurian52]

14 hours ago, Anthony P. said:

So... England, Northern England, Southwestern England and Ireland-England?

Iregland?

[Anthony P.]

2 hours ago, Centurian52 said:

Iregland?

Remove the vowels, and Wales will be included by virtue of the name sounding Welsh!

[slippy]

23 hours ago, Anthony P. said:

Remove the vowels, and Wales will be included by virtue of the name sounding Welsh!

I live in Wales! .....I was born in Risca and have lived in Ynysddu and Cwmfelinfach ........I also served in the British Army, a long time ago as a proud Briton and Welshman