CM Cold War - Beta AAR - Soviet Thread - Glorious Soviet Victory at Small German Town 1980

[Rice]

Things are spicing up. Very excited to see how this goes.

[The_Capt]

Glorious March to Victory Post #12 - "We Try Harder" (25-31)

So based on observation, I am seeing quite a few "likes" (thank you btw) but few comments, which tells me that I am probably telling you all something that Bil has already posted.  So for fear of getting left behind in the narrative I am just going to pull you all the way to where we are as of today.

I want to say up front that no matter how this ends, this is a really good game.  This is one for the books.  You can tell when everything feels so finely balanced and you and your opponent are fencing on a tightrope.  every PBEM turn gets the heartrate up!  

When I left you things were not looking so good for the brave soldiers of the Soviet Union.  But like the superior communist system, Soviets know how and when to pick themselves up and get back to it.

So not much but re-positioning in Turn 25 as I scramble to re-establish a parameter up on the ridge, Bil pulled back so that all proceeds.  The only interesting thing happens here near the end of the turn.  Looky here comrade the corrupt capitalist system thinks that they are so clever...looks like Bil is taking the deep left option after all.

The next turn I immediately start repositioning my remaining T64 on the left in order to form a blocking position on my left (that poor BMP got nailed by a second Cobra before I scared it off).  Bil could try and hide in the that wood line but we are past that now, he is going to try and roll me up (more on my logic later).  Meanwhile back on what is now called Red Knoll:

My intent here is to establish a hard point and pull Bils forces in, this time however, I am pushing infantry up front.  Note that an ATGM duel is forming up with that M150 and a BMP on the right here.

Which we win.  That should be about 4 out of 6 M150s killed.  Another sign of a really good game is the emergence of all the micro-dramas.  Here there are literally a hundred small stories all unfolding simultaneously, here is one:

So that brave little infantry squad breaks out of that tree line and sees a M60 monster...do they run and hide...nope they open up like it is the last thing they will ever do (and literally is).  Those are both the RPG 18 and RPG 7 firing simultaneously right at the turns end.  Finally on back on the Hwy:

So yep, pretty much as I expected this is an attempted roll up...oh Bil, you tired foolish old man, did you think I would leave the door open?  So here I am re-positioning another T64 and BMP to bottle up that Hwy ploy.  Onto Turn 28 and things start to turn:

My brave little squad misses, and then die in a hail of glory but they spook the crap out of those M60s, who promptly back off buying time for my T62s.  You can see here another T62 I snuck up from the village in the woods, so I have got a pretty good bead on this.

Meanwhile back on the Hwy, Bil's M60 here get spooked by a lone Recon Pl HQ and I start hunting that T64 forward.  I am starting to feel a bit like we are getting back up and then this happens:

Back in the center, Bil still has some armor with eyes on the objective (note: he is still pounding that nearly-empty suburb like it slept with his wife).  My poor immobilized T64 nails this M60 in a single blistering 125mm of bad-love.

Onto Turn 29.

 So on this turn is a positioning turn on the Red Knoll and Hwy, Bill has brought up at least one M60 to reinforce up here, so a lot of micro-drama potential.  And on the other side:

The bottleneck force is shaping up nicely..so the stage is set for another showdown.  

Turn 30 and things start to click:

It starts with this showdown at near-point-blank range.  The M60 fires first but (I like to think my little infantry squad (now all heroes of the Soviet Union) killed the crew commander and rattled that tank so badly that..) it misses.  My T62 does not, because cold steel runs in Soviet veins

Ok, now this is a Balls Game!  Back in the center:

 

DPICM, the last refuge of the desperate (seriously I think we may have overloaded on arty, and of course EW makes most of mine near useless).  But again Bil doubles down on that lone squad and MG team (who have taken a single casualty after all this)  A hint for anyone who plays Bil...he has problems with artillery.

But all is not good news:

This one hurt but it is a straight up "war happens moment so deal with it".  I start to push that T64 up a bit to try and snipe that M60 and he gets killed...gotta admit that one hurt.

Turn 31 and we are nearly caught up.

So up on the Red Knoll, Bil is stubbornly pushing with his 3 M60s (counting the dead one, that is a full third of his armor)  A second squad wins the Hero of the Soviet Union here by fearlessly opening up on two M60s and here they get an RPG 7 off before also being chopped up.

Which hits but I have no sight on the tank so I can only hope it at least rattled them up a bit.  The back on the Hwy:

My other T64, cooly drops that M60 like first period French (swear to god if I had all T64s this game would be over by now).  Back on Red Knoll the turn ends with this: 

Both barrels are lined up and loaded.  This screenshot pretty much captures this entire freakin game!

Ok, my assessment with 9 mins left on the clock.  So, Bil is seriously considering ceasefire right now cause even int guys can do math.  My force on the objective is still very solid with the better part of an infantry Coy and 2 x T62s (I sent the other one back), so the odds of him taking it (which were never great given his force) are low.  He could try a gamey sneak in the last minute of the game but I doubt it.  

So his problem here is one of points.  The US get points for cutting me down past 50% but they need to keep their own force above 50% and based on losses so far he has to be concerned about that buffer.  I am definitely closer (I may be below 50% right now) but even-losses at this point would be fatal to the US side.  And in the last 4 minutes I have lost a single T64 and BMP to at least 3 x M60s and an M150.   By my math Bils armor is precariously down to 50% (and I suspect at least one tank is gun-killed)...and I still have a lot of those nasty BMPs on the board who can all kill Bil's...well, anything.  

Regardless, even if we ended it now, I think this game is a Draw (at least right now).  In reality both forces are at a standstill (even if the US side has not realized it yet) in what has been a see-saw battle that has left me with scars and some therapy requirements.  The Blood-Red Dice still will roll, so we will see.

Capt's AAR Battle Theme Song

 

Edited March 28, 2021 by The_Capt

[Pete Wenman]

What a roller coaster. Great to see how this is playing out and it really shows how with a peer to peer force it only needs a little (bad)luck for things to tip one way or the other.

P

[gardar15]

How a real life cold war gone hot scenario would have happened. At least until 89.

[The_MonkeyKing]

Glorious, simply glorious

[Bud Backer]

2 hours ago, Pete Wenman said:

What a roller coaster. Great to see how this is playing out and it really shows how with a peer to peer force it only needs a little (bad)luck for things to tip one way or the other.

P

I think this statement sums it up better than anything. Roller-Coaster!

[Holien]

4 hours ago, The_Capt said:

So based on observation, I am seeing quite a few "likes" (thank you btw) but few comments, which tells me that I am probably telling you all something that Bil has already posted.  So for fear of getting left behind in the narrative I am just going to pull you all the way to where we are as of today.

Well you are now ahead of Bil in commentary and he is certainly playing catch up.

As for comments I try not to say anything as I could let slip clues as to what we know and you don't.

But I think you will see that folk were in your corner when you read the Peanut Gallery thread...

Before I just saw this latest post my guess was a draw... 

Looking forward to Bil's take on the last few turns...

[Artkin]

Wow that was a LOT of action. A lot of m60's down.

[MikeyD]

Bil has more comments because he likes to talk a good game  

[Megalon Jones]

3 hours ago, Holien said:

Well you are now ahead of Bil in commentary and he is certainly playing catch up.

As for comments I try not to say anything as I could let slip clues as to what we know and you don't.

But I think you will see that folk were in your corner when you read the Peanut Gallery thread...

Before I just saw this latest post my guess was a draw... 

Looking forward to Bil's take on the last few turns...

Exactly.  My mouth runs enough as is.  Don't want to ruin the FOW.

[Thomm]

Thank you, The_Capt, that was most entertaining.

Was there a possibility to reverse your tanks into the woods for a flank shot, or did you have to meet the enemy tanks head-on because of movement restrictions?

Best regards,
Thomm

[The_Capt]

17 minutes ago, Thomm said:

Thank you, The_Capt, that was most entertaining.

Was there a possibility to reverse your tanks into the woods for a flank shot, or did you have to meet the enemy tanks head-on because of movement restrictions?

Best regards,
Thomm

I assume you mean on the Hwy?   Well a flank shot would have been pretty narrow, those are dense woods and I was betting on the T64s frontal armor which in some cases took 6 hits from the M60 gun and still kept going...but as you can see that did not work out.

[The_Capt]

Glorious March to Victory Post #13 - "The Song of Small German Town 1980"

So on the very next turn Bil has offered ceasefire...we have playing together for a long time.  We have decided to do the final debrief at the same time, so I will wait for Bil to catch up a bit.

But I could not leave the second to last turn hanging because it represents this battle so well:

You remember the stand off on the Red Knoll at the end of turn 31...well here is how it played out:

My T62 got off the first shot and it was a killer (note the now-deaf-est Soviet Pl HQ in the ETO circled)

Then this happens:

Seriously, this is like the freakin ending of Reservoir Dogs at this point.  BTW I found out later, that M60 is immobilized by my heroic second squad.

So here we are at what is essentially End Game:

I will leave you to speculate as where things landed....

I can tell you that the fight over this non-descript little town in West Germany created so many pixel heroes in less than an hour.  I hope you have enjoyed it a fraction of as much as it was to play.

 

Edited March 29, 2021 by The_Capt

[CaptainTheDark]

10 hours ago, The_Capt said:

So based on observation, I am seeing quite a few "likes" (thank you btw) but few comments, which tells me that I am probably telling you all something that Bil has already posted.

Not in my case. I am not commenting on this battle (I have nothing to offer anyone here about tactics). I watch with rapt attention. This thread has kept me coming back to the site day after day.

[The_Capt]

5 minutes ago, CaptainTheDark said:

Not in my case. I am not commenting on this battle (I have nothing to offer anyone here about tactics). I watch with rapt attention. This thread has kept me coming back to the site day after day.

Ah, well welcome.  You will find tactics are really only the notes, the music is always the stories these games tell and I am glad you are enjoying it.

[Freyberg]

Thank you

I read all your updates, but didn't comment as I didn't really have anything to say. However, I enjoyed it very much.

[BletchleyGeek]

Great game @The_Capt!! I have never been a fanatic gamer of this period, but you guys have managed to get me very interested now

 

Thanks very much for the time taken to write commentary, process screenshots etc. it's been much appreciated entertainment. Now I am looking forward to that debrief!

[riptides]

Excellent job, showcasing, game narrative, tactics!

I'd say you followed doctrine to the letter. Moved fast, grabbed objective, wore down the enemy.

Just wow.

 

A toast to you Comrade!

 

[The_MonkeyKing]

@The_Capt 

How do you feel about the T-62 performance (price/performance and in the big picture)?

I Have have been traumatized by this tank in the past titles and I always go for T-55/T-72 if given the choice.

[The_Capt]

19 minutes ago, The_MonkeyKing said:

@The_Capt 

How do you feel about the T-62 performance (price/performance and in the big picture)?

I Have have been traumatized by this tank in the past titles and I always go for T-55/T-72 if given the choice.

I can't really comment definitively on price as I think they are still tweaking the QB but right now they are somewhere around 75% the cost of the T64.  Basically in a Large game you can get a LOT of them but you will need to watch the terrain.  The T62 is very effect at close range 1500 and below, which I think you can see in this game.  Its armor is ok but it is not going to stand up to concentrated fire.  It gun is excellent at shorter ranges, I have seen a T62 kill an M60A3 in the front at 1000m.

So I guess the short answer is that it is a fine tank if you know how to use it...en masse, closing distance quickly and knife fighting.

I personally prefer it over the T72, which really feels to me like the red-headed stepchild in this title.  This tank gets lot of press but it never was really taken seriously by the Soviets, a cheap export model.  Now the T64B and T80s are a different story, the T80 is rarer but begins to catch up on spotting/sniping and the T64B is the second only to the M1 (and much, much cheaper) for being an all around beast, its frontal armor is excellent and the gun is brutal.  The T64B is probably my favorite tank in the game. 

Edited March 29, 2021 by The_Capt

[The_MonkeyKing]

Hmm, interesting. Thanks for the write-up!

My main challenge with the T-62 have been especially spotting and second the rate of fire. 

Modern T-55 even have practically the same penetration as T-62 but I am not sure about the ammo of this era...

Edited March 29, 2021 by The_MonkeyKing

[The_Capt]

3 minutes ago, The_MonkeyKing said:

Hmm, interesting. Thanks for the write-up!

My main challenge with the T-62 have been especially spotting and second the rate of fire. 

Modern T-55 even have practically the same penetration as T-62 but I am not sure about the ammo of this era...

Spotting is definitely an issue, the T62 is blind past about 1500m as far as I can see and totally helpless in heavy smoke or night conditions...big reason why I had to close the distance in this game.  As to the T55, good question, I have not really played that one much (it does show up in the US '79 Campaign) I am not sure how they stack up to the T55.

[Bil Hardenberger]

@The_Capt.. Warren, this has been a brilliantly written and presented AAR.  Bravo.  I actually laughed out loud a couple times.

Well played game as well... as always you have been a worthy opponent.  

Bil

[The_Capt]

30 minutes ago, Bil Hardenberger said:

@The_Capt.. Warren, this has been a brilliantly written and presented AAR.  Bravo.  I actually laughed out loud a couple times.

Well played game as well... as always you have been a worthy opponent.  

Bil

And this is where Bil shames me with how classy he is...damn him to a medium-quality old folks home.

[IICptMillerII]

Congrats @The_Capt for winning this tough fight! In my opinion this has been one of the best beta AARs in recent memory, and the two of you even managed to finish it before the game released! Love how it came down to a final decisive exchange. I think the AAR has done a really great job of showing off the true peer-on-peer nature of CMCW, among many other positives. 

4 hours ago, The_MonkeyKing said:

How do you feel about the T-62 performance (price/performance and in the big picture)?

I Have have been traumatized by this tank in the past titles and I always go for T-55/T-72 if given the choice.

To add to what Warren said, the T-62 is actually a pretty effective tank in this title. It is not massively outclassed by anything (no poor T-62s vs M1A1/2) and in many cases will outperform US armor. As a rule of thumb: Everything >>> M60A1.

The T-55 certainly feels like an "old" tank in CMCW, similar to the base M60A1. Both are completely outclassed by later variants/models of tanks present, and is really noticeable.