JM´s Corner

[JM Stuff]

8 hours ago, Erwin said:

 

I really do not think people will notice or worry about this detail after the first few seconds of playing a game.   Maybe there are a few such detail-oriented folks, but if one is actually playing the game, tactical issues dominate, not spending time "rivet counting".

Totally agree this is just a detail.

 

7 hours ago, Warts 'n' all said:

You're wrong I'm afraid. Firstly you're forgetting that vehicles having gone off road and then returned to a "large" road would deposit mud on it depending on the weather conditions. And secondly, paved roads in Normandy hadn't been particularly well maintained during the depression and German occupation, and were fairly quickly ground to dust after the D-day landings. Add, allied bombing and arty fire and you soon got roads looking like this... 

Good deduction and good example is more or less what I was imagined.

5 hours ago, Sgt.Squarehead said:

That's because of the tile spacing.....If you want bocage on either side of the road that's as tight as it can be (hedge tiles overwrite road tiles and vice versa as anyone familar with the editor would know).

However it's quite easy to make the sort of urban scenes in those images, again within the limitations of the tiles.....TBH countless map-makers have done so.

PS - IMHO making hillside villages is where CM falls on its face somewhat.....It's a nightmare task!   

Yes it s true I imagine the scenarios makers are pulling their hair out of not being able to create what they would like.

 

3 hours ago, Lucky_Strike said:

I'm with @Warts 'n' all on this one. The roads in JMs videos are about two Sherman's wide which is what both pictured town roads appear to be, the first is probably a bit wider still.

I don't think that we should see paved roads very often in Normandy, cobbled town and village streets for sure, but 30-odd tons of AFV is going to wreak havoc with your cobbles. I much prefer to see hard dirt roads or something like what JM has produced.

I have toyed around with a compacted chalky surface for roads but I think these are only good for very dry conditions. What I think would be good are mod tagged roads that can be employed with different atmospheric conditions - dusty for hot weather, muddy for wet, with puddles for raining ... this should be possible with the current texture system. We could also then deploy weather shaders to change the overall tone of the landscape to reflect the colour of the weather - darken greens and browns for wet weather etc, etc. I don't know if shaders can be tagged, not tried ... The game does seem to do this to a certain extent, but roads always seem to remain too light in damp or wet conditions. It's quite a bit of work though, another project in itself.

I agree with Warts and Lucky on this point my idea on this road anyway I can be wrong !

 

The mod I am trying to create is based on what I think with added some little imagination, the road is accessible in both direction but at reduced speed because the road  not seem to be very wide...but again, I can be wrong.

Let s imagine that two shermans cross each other, they do not have the possibility of crossing at high speed but well at reduced speed (see litlle clip), so this road is for me I will say to have one lane but with the possibility of crossing each other and not get stuck on the sides the vehicles roll in the middle of the road, and in the city with the cobblestones roll sometimes on the sidewalk but maybe my idea is wrong.

This is why I took compare and even integrate the same tile road 1 of another modern CM module, CMCW, also because I was not sure myself if these road is with one or two lanes, now I am fixed for CMBN this is a two lanes with some restrictions like describe above.

2 hours ago, Falaise said:

@JM Stuff has already been in the Red Army !!!!

I am not convinced of this mod for CM Normandie or possibly for certain scenarios or campaigns concerning Goodwwod Cobra or the Falaise pocket
on the other hand it is in my opinion essential for muddy roads CM Final Blitzkrieg with tank imprint for the autumn and winter fights
I was interested to know what the roads of Normandy looked like in 1944
The majority of the dual-track roads were tarred and the original color shade in the game is pretty much the real thing, slightly pink (I even looked at an abandoned stretch of road from the 1950s to get the color)

although I think that like today there was a many shade of color
no paved road except in big cities and still not everywhere, especially in squares
the streets of towns and villages were generally tarrred
the countryside and the secondary roads were covered with MacAdam, a mixture of limestone and white lime

I tried a rainy road
but that need to load the mod according to the scenario or to make a rain tag
what was missing are the famous trackprints
if  @JM Stuff can make relief imprints in the mud then and in particular for CMFB it will become essential

 

I like very much the color of the road that you present here, (and I think I will use the tile that you present in large just above these picture in form of mud, this is more the Idea that I had from the road and not the one that I have for the time, tell me guys what you are you thinking about)?

Stephane can you provide to send me copy please ? I mean the road in brown here above !

I wouldn t want to make deep borrowings for the road in question at least for Normandy, because I think it is a hard coating, but simply to leave traces on the mud road of passage of vehicles and therefore light but visible...is quite different for CMFB where the footprints will be deep sticky and let the vehicles get bogged down for a while, and will be much dirtier as this one...

 

"if  @JM Stuff can make relief imprints in the mud then and in particular for CMFB it will become essential"

Yes I can do the footprints, and you are right, and modtag is esential , just to agree on what we want,

first priority CMBN, than apply differents others stuffs for differents modules !

 

JM

 

 

Edited September 26, 2021 by JM Stuff

[Sgt.Squarehead]

4 minutes ago, JM Stuff said:

Yes it s true I imagine the scenarios makers are pulling their hair out of not being able to create what they would like.

You get over it soon enough and get on with making what you can.....That's my approach at any rate. 

Having extra eye-candy to distract from game-enginje induced ugliness always helps.

[JM Stuff]

2 minutes ago, Sgt.Squarehead said:

You get over it soon enough and get on with making what you can.....That's my approach at any rate. 

Having extra eye-candy to distract from game-enginje induced ugliness always helps.

Yes but we are always with some unplesant surprises, that we not really need for the time, letting us loosing time,... but we have to go ahead and do the best of !

[Lucky_Strike]

5 hours ago, Falaise said:

I was interested to know what the roads of Normandy looked like in 1944
The majority of the dual-track roads were tarred and the original color shade in the game is pretty much the real thing, slightly pink (I even looked at an abandoned stretch of road from the 1950s to get the color)

Is this like a kind of aggregate stuck onto a tarred surface rolled flat with a large steamroller? I'd imagine it was simply applied every couple of years or so straight on top of the old surface.

5 hours ago, Falaise said:

the countryside and the secondary roads were covered with MacAdam, a mixture of limestone and white lime

Again, was this compacted with a heavy steamroller?

I'd imagine it acts like a big sponge in the rain, not very waterproof but rather soaking up the rain and allowing it to drain through. Would probably get full of pot holes after a few seasons, bit like our roads (take note Hampshire CC )

I do think we need a rain mod ...

[Lucky_Strike]

3 hours ago, JM Stuff said:

Let s imagine that two shermans cross each other, they do not have the possibility of crossing at high speed but well at reduced speed (see litlle clip), so this road is for me I will say to have one lane but with the possibility of crossing each other and not get stuck on the sides the vehicles roll in the middle of the road, and in the city with the cobblestones roll sometimes on the sidewalk but maybe my idea is wrong.

 

 Love it! This is my favourite AAR video ever - road safety CM style, thanks JM

What ever happened to public information films ...?

Edited September 27, 2021 by Lucky_Strike

[JM Stuff]

33 minutes ago, Lucky_Strike said:

 Love it! This is my favourite AAR video ever - road safety CM style, thanks JM

Ils se font des galanteries !

33 minutes ago, Lucky_Strike said:

What ever happened to public information films ...?

Ah !! the black British humour !

[Warts 'n' all]

Ah, good old Captain Peacock.

[slippy]

14 hours ago, Falaise said:

@JM Stuff has already been in the Red Army !!!!

I am not convinced of this mod for CM Normandie or possibly for certain scenarios or campaigns concerning Goodwwod Cobra or the Falaise pocket
on the other hand it is in my opinion essential for muddy roads CM Final Blitzkrieg with tank imprint for the autumn and winter fights
I was interested to know what the roads of Normandy looked like in 1944
The majority of the dual-track roads were tarred and the original color shade in the game is pretty much the real thing, slightly pink (I even looked at an abandoned stretch of road from the 1950s to get the color)

although I think that like today there was a many shade of color
no paved road except in big cities and still not everywhere, especially in squares
the streets of towns and villages were generally tarrred
the countryside and the secondary roads were covered with MacAdam, a mixture of limestone and white lime

I tried a rainy road
but that need to load the mod according to the scenario or to make a rain tag
what was missing are the famous trackprints
if  @JM Stuff can make relief imprints in the mud then and in particular for CMFB it will become essential

 

Personally i think i prefer the first two images above that Falaise posted for the roads. I would like to see the Highways, paved roads, and tracks all have similar textures, with the effect filtering out towards the edges.

I dont really like to see a perfect grey coloured road, suddenly transform into a dirt track with a hard border between, to me that look very unrealistic. I think it would look better for all road surfaces to be of a similar colour.

I do like the idea though of separate textures for dusty,dry, wet, muddy, winter textures though, that can be dropped into the mods folder depending on the scenario.

I think JMs track texture would look better in a muddy road setting rather than a dry dusty road. The roads in Normandy in June/July 1944 would have been very different to the roads in Holland and Belgium in November/ December 1944

 

cheers all

[Lucky_Strike]

7 hours ago, Warts 'n' all said:

Ah, good old Captain Peacock.

I'm free!

[Lucky_Strike]

4 hours ago, slippy said:

I dont really like to see a perfect grey coloured road, suddenly transform into a dirt track with a hard border between, to me that look very unrealistic. I think it would look better for all road surfaces to be of a similar colour.

Transitions are always a problem on roads. Put simply it's near impossible to manage because there are no textures for it in the base game. The only, maybe, way around it would be to limit the type of roads used to just one and then to utilise the "spare" texture slots from the other road type to create the transition tiles/textures. This would mostly be fine by me, but the problem would be that all maps with more than one road type would need to be adapted to use the modded tiles.

 

4 hours ago, slippy said:

I do like the idea though of separate textures for dusty,dry, wet, muddy, winter textures though, that can be dropped into the mods folder depending on the scenario.

I think JMs track texture would look better in a muddy road setting rather than a dry dusty road. The roads in Normandy in June/July 1944 would have been very different to the roads in Holland and Belgium in November/ December 1944

It's a big project, whom ever took it on could easily produce both mod tagged and mod folders once the textures were done. Good thing is that the textures should work across all the games not just Normandy, though colour may be an issue for parts of FI and SF

[slippy]

2 hours ago, Lucky_Strike said:

Transitions are always a problem on roads. Put simply it's near impossible to manage because there are no textures for it in the base game. The only, maybe, way around it would be to limit the type of roads used to just one and then to utilise the "spare" texture slots from the other road type to create the transition tiles/textures. This would mostly be fine by me, but the problem would be that all maps with more than one road type would need to be adapted to use the modded tiles.

 

It's a big project, whom ever took it on could easily produce both mod tagged and mod folders once the textures were done. Good thing is that the textures should work across all the games not just Normandy, though colour may be an issue for parts of FI and SF

Thanks for your reply Lucky Strike. Your knowledge is far superior to mine mate, so good to hear your thoughts.

Would it be possible to give every road, highway, track the same texture in theory?

I like the idea of mod tagged versions, but wouldn't be any good for scenarios, or campaigns already built would it?

Lastly, what controls the dust in SF2? Could that be implemented in CMBN for summer months?

 

[JM Stuff]

Ok guys, I see that my wacky ideas let you use ink, that's why I offer to test for yourself differents textures to use  for the roads, and only the roads, paths are not allowed, because of the restrictions see my post above more more above..., we can of course create our own by a mutual agreement, we can also eliminate those which do not seem suitable to us.

This is the new one, the dirt is gone... to give a smile to @Warts 'n' all (just joking) his idea was right this was too dark !

 

This is the model of @Falaise that kindly give me the tile for the rain for a futur modtag !

 

 

All tiles are basic mean don t have any effects any blur...go in the dirt yourself 

Later on a common accord we can choose the one to keep it !

J insiste first priority CMBN than CMFB...

I put in the link in my loading space here  that you can use for your differents modules of CM, only one tile is available for the moment, but that will give you an idea of what this look like.

 

Try the link first I don t know if it is already available !!

Let me know if the link is working !!

Procedure

put them in your z folder and choose one folder one by one to test it, all files have the same name so copy only one folder to see the effects.

(personally I created like our smart Guy, Aquila Smart game a ZZZZZZZZ  folder himself in my Z folder so that only the last modifications are taken into account of your mods, when you already have an original file in your simple z folder, which will be read by the game at launch but will not be taken in account) the folder ZZZZZZZZ yes, I advise you to also try it !

Hope everybodys follow my text untill now ? everybodys understand or is only me ?

Try to enjoy and see you, I guess here !

 

JM

Edited September 27, 2021 by JM Stuff

[Lucky_Strike]

7 hours ago, slippy said:

Thanks for your reply Lucky Strike. Your knowledge is far superior to mine mate, so good to hear your thoughts.

Would it be possible to give every road, highway, track the same texture in theory?

I like the idea of mod tagged versions, but wouldn't be any good for scenarios, or campaigns already built would it?

Lastly, what controls the dust in SF2? Could that be implemented in CMBN for summer months?

 

Thanks Slippy, it's good to bounce these ideas around, encourage JM to make more mods for us 

It's possible to give most of the roads the same texture, but there may still be issues where they join. The problem with many of the textures used in the games is that choices were made early on, back in version 1 days, which were meant to save resources in much less powerful PCs and no doubt man-hours. We have inherited much of this and, though it mostly works, there are obvious occasions where extra textures would help, but it's unlikely to be changed going forward. There are some tiles that scale badly - grass is the worst - and there are others that are just used too ubiquitously, dirt roads only has one texture tile - there are no bends or junctions or anything, it's just one dirt roads for every which way, which is why JM can't make a specific dirt road texture with tracks and ruts. BUT what can be done is to replace all the other road tiles with the same, or similar, textures and not use the dirt road texture for dirt roads ... does that make sense?

Still not sure how they would transition into each other, but with JMs work it should be possible to experiment and see if an homogenised road surface is possible.

For personal use and making ones own maps etc it would be easyish, for use in maps for the community it might have to be done with mod tags as not everyone likes mods. And as you noted, it can only work in new maps or mod-tagged maps. I do think that with the roads we have, at least perhaps for most of Normandy, we could have a system whereby all the country roads could be very similar and have smoother transitions into village streets with perhaps cobbles or Falaise's surfaces, so long as we are prepared to forego larger roads. Certainly food for thought ...

As for dust, not sure how the amount is controlled, I guess it's hard-coded in the game engine, probably something we can't alter sadly. All the games have a smoke dust texture which I think is the same and what is probably used to generate the dust textures for vehicle movement. It may be influenced by a shader but really I don't know.

[Erwin]

It's funny... I prefer the first pics that JM posted. 

 

• 

Those tracks looked appropriately confused and messy like after dozens of tanks had driven over the road, messing it up.  Those looked realistic. 

These latest ones are so clean and straight - like RR tracks.  

Edited September 28, 2021 by Erwin

[JM Stuff]

2 minutes ago, Erwin said:

It's funny... I prefer the first pics that JM posted. 

 

• 

Those tracks looked appropriately confused and messy like after dozens of tanks had driven over the road, messing it up.  Those looked realistic. 

These latest ones are so clean and straight - like RR tracks.  

Tony I like also this view but dont forget I put a little text 

"All tiles are basic mean don t have any effects any blur..."

mean that all is to be done ! nohing is apply for the time I present just the terrain to have an overview of your CM differents modules that you can apply yourself on your own game  !

When the fine job will be done this will give also with relief and more...

JM

[JM Stuff]

Did some of you downloaded the little zipped file in the link below, I would like to know if the link work, let me know, and if yes give me also some advices about the tiles in your own game that I can go ahead with the job !

Thanks in advance 

JM

[Warts 'n' all]

24 minutes ago, JM Stuff said:

Did some of you downloaded the little zipped file in the link below, I would like to know if the link work, let me know, and if yes give me also some advices about the tiles in your own game that I can go ahead with the job !

Thanks in advance 

JM

The link does work.

I've taken a little look this morning. Number 1a1 comes complete with the bright coloured dots as shown in one of your earlier posts, which is a bit off putting. But as a road surface it does look good. I'm not sure if other forumites will agree with me, but the main problem with this as a mod is where two different types of road tile meet. The contrast is very stark.

I shall have a look at the rest as and when I get time.

[JM Stuff]

7 minutes ago, Warts 'n' all said:

The link does work.

I've taken a little look this morning. Number 1a1 comes complete with the bright coloured dots as shown in one of your earlier posts, which is a bit off putting. But as a road surface it does look good. I'm not sure if other forumites will agree with me, but the main problem with this as a mod is where two different types of road tile meet. The contrast is very stark.

I shall have a look at the rest as and when I get time.

Ah ok thank you, to take the time to check it, yes I let the "original tile like I did  I forgot to take it out !

sorry I don t understand correclty !

"the main problem with this as a mod is where two different types of road tile meet. The contrast is very stark."

I guess you mean the tracks on the side is more bright as in the middle, I have to check it out !

 Perhaps I have to make one tracks signs only in the middle of the road, and not on the side as well, if this is  what you mean !?

Everybodys have to understand why I put more tracks close to the others,  and sometimes let them overlap, that also let it more dark...

It is difficult to imagine that two tanks or vehicles, can roll in the tracks of the others, so my opinion is to created at least two tracks signs necessary to appear more real, as well, as at least one track on either side of the center..!

But of course this give a mess for the eyes, but also give a better aspect of reallity  !

[benpark]

Here's a "not ready for prime time" test I made for FR for muddy roads, to see a few joins with discrete tracks. Still a little angular, but everything lines up, with turning in mind.

The joins are best done with all files open at the same time for comparing hue/saturation and image density. That's the best method for matching - seeing it all at once.

 

Edited September 28, 2021 by benpark

[Lucky_Strike]

2 hours ago, JM Stuff said:

Did some of you downloaded the little zipped file in the link below, I would like to know if the link work, let me know, and if yes give me also some advices about the tiles in your own game that I can go ahead with the job !

Thanks in advance 

JM

Yes, still to look at them all, lots to think about, but the download does work.

[Lucky_Strike]

31 minutes ago, benpark said:

Still a little angular, but everything lines up, with turning in mind.

This is certainly one of the most difficult aspects to overcome.

31 minutes ago, benpark said:

The joins are best done with all files open at the same time for comparing hue/saturation and image density. That's the best method for matching - seeing it all at once.

Yes, it's a shame that we can't live preview in the game as we update colour etc in our image editors, would save a lot of time. One way to kinda get around this is to import the bmps into a page layout application - something like InDesign - laying them out to create a 'road' network then to refresh the subscribed images as they are edited, quite a quick and dirty solution but does allow for live editing of sorts with all the edges and colours refreshed simultaneously.

I suspect that this could also be done in Blender if a more 3D look was required ... I'll have to give it a go ...

Edited September 28, 2021 by Lucky_Strike

[Sgt.Squarehead]

39 minutes ago, benpark said:

Here's a "not ready for prime time" test I made for FR for muddy roads, to see a few joins with discrete tracks. Still a little angular, but everything lines up, with turning in mind.

Outstanding.....Presumably you could try to hide the angles with random spatter of some kind?

[slippy]

2 hours ago, benpark said:

Here's a "not ready for prime time" test I made for FR for muddy roads, to see a few joins with discrete tracks. Still a little angular, but everything lines up, with turning in mind.

The joins are best done with all files open at the same time for comparing hue/saturation and image density. That's the best method for matching - seeing it all at once.

 

Wow, I really like that Benpark, well done. That would be ideal for all road surfaces in different colours. I particularly like the way the tracks are not too clean and fade out towards the edge of the road.

I'm not sure if we often need a paved tarmac surface in CMBN, especially for Normandy scenarios. They may be better served by a dirt version of the paved tile

 

 

 

 

[slippy]

4 hours ago, Warts 'n' all said:

The link does work.

I've taken a little look this morning. Number 1a1 comes complete with the bright coloured dots as shown in one of your earlier posts, which is a bit off putting. But as a road surface it does look good. I'm not sure if other forumites will agree with me, but the main problem with this as a mod is where two different types of road tile meet. The contrast is very stark.

I shall have a look at the rest as and when I get time.

Yes that why I mentioned all road types having the same texture, so the demarcation is less noticeable

 

[JM Stuff]

2 hours ago, benpark said:

Here's a "not ready for prime time" test I made for FR for muddy roads, to see a few joins with discrete tracks. Still a little angular, but everything lines up, with turning in mind.

The joins are best done with all files open at the same time for comparing hue/saturation and image density. That's the best method for matching - seeing it all at once.

 

Yes a careful work Ben,

I like it gives a good vision of reality this mod could also be valid for CMFB it is welcome, in fact I think that the textures that I am forcing myself to do for CMBN exist more or less already, and I  must see all the textures of the new module in details CMRT FR which I have not yet done quite, and especially, those that you, have already done, I have only added some basics vehicle tracks for the moment, but I think that all the essential tiles, for each separate game, have already been created.

I only have to devote myself and concentrate on the realization of the tracks and wheels of the vehicles.

 But I intend to try to have 3 furrows of the tracks, one in the center and one on the sides for the reasons mentioned above very high in the text, ... correct me if I am wrong, thank you Ben for these additional informations, it is  a good opportunity to review what is wrong with mine.