Still horrible user interface keeps on developing

[Warloch]

Why not to do something for the interface?

Larger scenes are really pain in the ***. Many of my friends have really liked the idea behind CM, but the GUI really turned them all away from this so really great game.

[niall78]

Why not to do something for the interface?

Larger scenes are really pain in the ***. Many of my friends have really liked the idea behind CM, but the GUI really turned them all away from this so really great game.

Why not try the plethora of mods that adjust the GUI?

[General Lee Irked]

Why not to do something for the interface?

Larger scenes are really pain in the ***. Many of my friends have really liked the idea behind CM, but the GUI really turned them all away from this so really great game.

And how would you improve it? For this type of game and its complexity I feel it works well IMO. That does not say it cannot be improved.

Example: Toggle UI on and off would be a welcome addition.

-The Mods mentioned make the UI more pleasing for myself.

-sometimes I wish the UI was larger or could be toggled larger (old man eyes)

[womble]

The interface remains awkward, often counterintuitive and difficult. I'm hopeful that the new camera modes will help people used to other control schema find a way through the clunk.

Warloch, there are a number of improvements to the interface in RT. Try 'em and see.

[Battlefront.com]

It is a perpetual problem for CM. Has been since the Beta Demo for CMBO back in 1999. The inherent problem is the game has a lot of options and a lot of different ways to play. Other games have it much easier in that they have a far narrower scope and an even narrower range of ways to play. For example, there's not many games out there that allow people to play RealTime or turn based (WeGo in our case). One could easily argue that we should have two entirely different UIs for each game mode, yet that isn't practical from a development and support standpoint. It would also irritate the heck out of people that move back and forth between the two modes.

We are progressively refining the UI as we go, adding new features and addressing old concerns with each release. But unless we simplify the gameplay and the options we're always going to have UI that is difficult to use compared to other games.

Steve

[Macisle]

I've never understood some people's hatred for the CM UI.

Yes, they need to:

A) Hire Juju to do the stock UI graphics.

Make the UI "responsive" to available space vs. resolution.

Otherwise, there's nothing that really bothers me about it.

[LukeFF]

I've never understood some people's hatred for the CM UI.

Yes, they need to:

A) Hire Juju to do the stock UI graphics.

Make the UI "responsive" to available space vs. resolution.

Otherwise, there's nothing that really bothers me about it.

Juju's work is good, but I wouldn't want it to be the default UI graphics for the game.

[PanzerMike]

I have never found the UI to be a problem to be honest. It works for me.

[Skwabie]

It does take some getting used to. Think I tried CMSF v1.10 few years back and was physically nauseated by the camera controls...

Fully used to it now, still somewhat tedious but like Steve says comes with the game basics.

[LUCASWILLEN05]

Why not to do something for the interface?

Larger scenes are really pain in the ***. Many of my friends have really liked the idea behind CM, but the GUI really turned them all away from this so really great game.

Personally I have no problem with the GUI. Rather than just saying there is an issue with "larger scenes" whatever you might mean by that why don't you clarify what the problem might be and come up with some solutions. I am sure Battlefront would love to hear your feedback and ideas!

[Macisle]

Dunno. -Never had any real problems with the camera controls either (though it can be easy to overshoot the mark when using the screen edge method).

Now, trying to control more than 10 guys in Arma2... Or actually any amount of guys mixed with vehicle crews.

That is an annoying UI.

[Michael Emrys]

I have never found the UI to be a problem to be honest. It works for me.

Pretty much the same for me. I guess it could be better, but don't ask me how. I do agree with what Macisle said about the screen edge zip you into another galaxy far, far away. I'd be happy if you could toggle that to go away.

Michael

[Collingwood]

I recall the user interface being a little difficult at first, but not insurmountable. Clearly it isn't easy to come up with an intuitive system that everyone understands on first go. Not that I've seen the new controls but apparently BF have taken criticism on board and are offering alternative ways of controlling the camera with RT.

My litmus test is: can I come up with a much better way of doing it, which would not require instructions, which would allow all or most users to just dive into a game like this and know exactly how to do things? Nope, I can't.

[womble]

Just being allowed to turn off screen edge scrolling would be nice.

Simple industry standard shortcut keys like CTRL-S (or even near-standard, like ALT-S) for "Save" (surely you save at least as often as you Quit...).

Scroll bars in the pre-game UI. Scroll bars in the unit infor pane.

One more digit in the ammo count for the unit info pane.

Simple text editing in text entry boxes like savename.

Double-click to start a game. Double-click anywhere in the control scheme.

Consistent use of RETURN to act on the default action in a dialog, including game start stuff.

The "Compass-that-is-not-a-compass-but-looks-a-bit-like-one". Yes there are mods for it, but why is it even necessary to apply a mod to a basic element of the UI to get it to work like you'd intuitively expect it to?

UI != icons and graphics; they're fine. Functional and amenable to prettification, but largely adequate to the needs they serve (though possibly a bit hard to read for the longer-sighted on larger resolutions). The controls are what trip people up.

Just because you can get used to something doesn't make it all fine and dandy. I'm looking forward to trying the new camera modes. I'd like to see similar experiments with selection/deselection mechanics; "Left-click = select; right-click = act" has always been a schema that made intutitive sense to me. It would eliminate the "setting a move order to some other unit because you hadn't cancelled the order mode before going on to the next unit" errors, and reduce the total number of mouse clicks needed to play a turn, since you wouldn't have to deselect before selecting a new unit, as you now often do. Currently, RMB is underused, IMO.

[gunnersman]

I've never really had a problem with it either. But maybe that is because I "grew up" with Combat Mission. I remember when "Theater of War" first came out. I felt as if I was starting over again with learning a new UI. It was off putting to me. If ALL games had the exact same UI I doubt we would have this discussion.

[Collingwood]

Simple industry standard shortcut keys like CTRL-S (or even near-standard, like ALT-S) for "Save" (surely you save at least as often as you Quit...).

...

Consistent use of RETURN to act on the default action in a dialog, including game start stuff.

Yeah, those ones have puzzled me for a while. They should be easy enough.

[Bulletpoint]

There are some easy fixes that could be implemented quickly. As Womble said, use the right mouse button more.

Combine this with context-sensitive orders: You click a unit, then right-click on an empty square. The unit gets a basic move order. Click on an enemy unit: your unit gets a basic target order.

Want your unit to do something more advanced, like slow-move? Right-click and hold the mouse button, then a small popup appears, choose "slow". Or right-click an enemy unit, hold the mouse button, and select "target light".

Well, having said that, the thing that really bothers me about the UI is something else actually. I'm playing on an old laptop, and because it's a bit sluggish, there's often a delay when deselecting a unit and selecting another one. That drives me crazy, but Battlefront can hardly be blamed that my computer belongs in a museum

[Macisle]

...Simple industry standard shortcut keys like CTRL-S (or even near-standard, like ALT-S) for "Save" (surely you save at least as often as you Quit...).

Okay, yeah -- I'd like that, too. -Forgot about that one. I do often wish for it.

[Mord]

In the last 14 years 80% of my game playing has been CM related so the controls have never really bothered me. The camera gets to me every once in a while but other than that, I am used to it.

Mord.

[Lt Belenko]

Just being allowed to turn off screen edge scrolling would be nice.

Simple industry standard shortcut keys like CTRL-S (or even near-standard, like ALT-S) for "Save" (surely you save at least as often as you Quit...).

Scroll bars in the pre-game UI. Scroll bars in the unit infor pane.

One more digit in the ammo count for the unit info pane.

Simple text editing in text entry boxes like savename.

Double-click to start a game. Double-click anywhere in the control scheme.

Consistent use of RETURN to act on the default action in a dialog, including game start stuff.

The "Compass-that-is-not-a-compass-but-looks-a-bit-like-one". Yes there are mods for it, but why is it even necessary to apply a mod to a basic element of the UI to get it to work like you'd intuitively expect it to?

UI != icons and graphics; they're fine. Functional and amenable to prettification, but largely adequate to the needs they serve (though possibly a bit hard to read for the longer-sighted on larger resolutions). The controls are what trip people up.

Just because you can get used to something doesn't make it all fine and dandy. I'm looking forward to trying the new camera modes. I'd like to see similar experiments with selection/deselection mechanics; "Left-click = select; right-click = act" has always been a schema that made intutitive sense to me. It would eliminate the "setting a move order to some other unit because you hadn't cancelled the order mode before going on to the next unit" errors, and reduce the total number of mouse clicks needed to play a turn, since you wouldn't have to deselect before selecting a new unit, as you now often do. Currently, RMB is underused, IMO.

Good list. I'd like to add.

Scroll bars on 2D Map editor.

Move the "DONE" button away from the forward/back/pause buttons. I've been focused on the screen and while doing some repeated instant replay, I've had the cursor accidentally drift to the "DONE" button.

Knowing BFC: Look for GUI updates in 4.0 release. Thanking them in advance.

[womble]

Scroll bars on 2D Map editor.

Scroll bars would be useful in oh-so-many places.

Move the "DONE" button away from the forward/back/pause buttons. I've been focused on the screen and while doing some repeated instant replay, I've had the cursor accidentally drift to the "DONE" button.

I'd like the option to have a "Confirm" dialog when you hit the button. With different settings for PBEM and single-player.

And an "go to end" button as well as a "go to beginning" button. Sometimes you just want to check a unit/wing/platoon did roughly what you expected it to, and having to hit FFWD 12 times wears. Hotkeys for the replay controls would be nice, too.

[kuri]

Would it be possible to add hover-over tooltips for all the icons on unit information panel?

[FroBodine]

Would it be possible to add hover-over tooltips for all the icons on unit information panel?

Yes! Tooltips is probably the biggest UI standard that is absent from the CM games. I don't understand why they haven't added them after so long.

[Wodin]

I don't think the UI is that bad at all. Though quite often I'm bemused at peoples complaints about a games UI, most of the time I don't have a problem with it or even thought of it as an issue.

[MikeyD]

Steve once mentioned an episode of the Simpsons where Homer was hired as a consultant to design a new car. He included every wish list feature he could dream up to produce the 'ultimate' car. A car that turned out to be a monstrosity that nobody wanted to buy.