The year to come - 2024 (Part 1)

[Battlefront.com]

On 1/10/2024 at 3:53 AM, Butschi said:

I guess you did an actual poll, market research or similar about that?

Of course not.  We never have and never will.  We use sales data and our best guess.  Polls are useless because unless a massive effort is put into it they produce results that are unreliable to the point of being dangerous.  Look at the effort to do polling for anything and you'll see what I mean. 

On 1/10/2024 at 3:53 AM, Butschi said:

So maybe this works with a mostly US based audience. For me personally Downfall and also to a lesser degree Fire & Rubble feels like the Allies get an extension of timeline so they can play around with their shiney toys.

Huh, I view it as being skewed towards the Germans.  They get all kinds of new forces, the Allies get updated versions of what they already had access to.  And nobody produced more late war equipment variants than the Germans (which some argue is why they lost the war).  Sure, some of the stuff in Downfall was seen in Fire & Rubble and some of that from Fortress Italy.  But there's a lot of stuff in Downfall that is new or at least new to the Western Front. 

In any case, even if we thought lots of people want a Fall of France game it's too much work to do at once for what we'd likely get for sales.  And yes, I absolutely know better than our customers what it takes to make such a game and how many people are likely to buy it.

Doesn't mean it wouldn't be a fun game!  I'd like it

Steve

[chuckdyke]

Yes if you did tabletop wargaming with Airfix you saw how much variety the Germans had. It was fun to play as Germans even then.

[Vergeltungswaffe]

55 minutes ago, Battlefront.com said:

And nobody produced more late war equipment variants than the Germans

Of course it was never produced, but I'm going to keep dreaming of E series panzers in CM.

[Murauder]

So, that means we wont get any modern update in the near future. Sad

[BornGinger]

3 hours ago, Battlefront.com said:

nobody produced more late war equipment variants than the Germans

So there is going to be the Fahr- und Zielgerät FG 1250 for the Germans in Downfall. Could be fun for those who enjoy playing night battles.

[Centurian52]

4 hours ago, Battlefront.com said:

And nobody produced more late war equipment variants than the Germans (which some argue is why they lost the war).

Some people argue that. And it was certainly a very inefficient use of resources. But as I always point out to such people, the Germans were already fighting a lost cause by then anyway. So it wouldn't have made any difference. There's some argument to be had about the exact moment the Germans lost the war. Some people say it was when Fall Blau fell apart. Some say it was the moment they invaded the Soviet Union. And some people say it was the moment they found themselves in a war with the world's greatest naval power, with no hope of ever being able to build a navy that could challenge it (while it does make for some fun alt-history wargaming, Sealion was always a pipe dream). I'll usually point to the triple hammer blows of Uranus, El Alamein, and Torch in November 1942 as the moment when there could be no further doubt. Certainly by the beginning of 1943 the outcome of the war was sealed, well before their desperate late war equipment experimentation.

The only things left in doubt were how much more time it would take, and how many more casualties it would take (perhaps if they had made more efficient use of what resources they had left, rather than wasting them on wild experimental weapons, they might have prolonged the war and extracted a heavier toll on the Allies). I'm reading James Holland's book on Sicily right now (while I pointed out one of his mistakes in an earlier post, he's still an excellent historian and I highly recommend his books), and he pointed out that the Allies were taking absolutely no chances with Operation Husky. Not because failure would have had any chance of changing the outcome of the war (it wouldn't). But simply because failure, while it wouldn't have changed the ultimate outcome, would still have been a serious setback that would mean it would take more time and blood to reach the end.

Edited January 12 by Centurian52

[JMDECC]

On 1/6/2024 at 2:34 PM, Battlefront.com said:

For the vehicles and forces, no plans to release them in their current form.  However, they will be useful for any future Modern era wargames we might make.  That will speed up development of whatever that might be, which is at least something!

As I said, we're not giving up on Modern era warfare.  It's just that Russia and Ukraine in the same game is not viable until this war is long over.

Steve

I wonder if we will get something more fiction based, like the forces that are in CMPE? That would actually be neat, at least from a creative standpoint. Although as others have said in various locations, China vs. Taiwan would be welcome.

 

Steve, if I remember right, I think I read once that CMSF was one of (if not the) best selling titles (and please correct me if I'm wrong) - any chance we'll ever see more expansions added there?

Edited January 12 by JMDECC

[Artkin]

CMSF2 unfortunately just doesnt run well like the other titles do. Maybe engine 5 will fix this though.

[Raging Al]

Thanks for the update, Steve.  Downfall pre-ordered and looking forward to part 2 with bated breath.  
 

I’m another player who’d love to see early war CM, if it ever happens, but I’ll continue to purchase whatever else you guys release in the meantime.  Keep up the great work.

[Anthony P.]

18 hours ago, Karp_K said:

As someone who primarily plays and enjoys SF2, I love the idea of it but I feel like it falls into the same vein of effort & time weighed against profit in BFC's eyes. Granted, if all the assets were already made... Hate to say it, but that's in the realm of whatever is further beyond wishful thinking.

Third-ed.

Publishing a Russian airborne pack for SF2 should hardly be very controversial, while adding a fresh new module to the oldest game of the series.

[Anthony P.]

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Edited January 12 by Anthony P.
duplicate

[Vacillator]

14 hours ago, BornGinger said:

Fahr- und Zielgerät FG 1250

This was proposed for F&R, by @benpark if memory serves.  It didn't make it then so I'm not sure it'll make it now.  I wouldn't mind being wrong though.

EDIT:  Some nice info about the sights here if you're interested;

http://www.missing-lynx.com/articles/dio/rwpanth/rwpanth_solutions.htm

Edited January 12 by Vacillator

[BornGinger]

@Vacillator I don't care what the new module will have for the players to have fun with. I'm not going to buy any more modules or such with the game engine there is now.

If Battlefront makes a new game engine wich offers at least some of what I mentioned in my posts about changes to the engine, which would make playing the game more interesting, I would buy something.

Edited January 13 by BornGinger

[Aragorn2002]

2 hours ago, BornGinger said:

@Vacillator I don't care what the new module will have for the players to have fun with. I'm not going to buy any more modules or such with the game engine there is now.

If Battlefront makes a new game engine wich offers at least some of what I mentioned in my posts about changes to the engine, which would make playing the game more interesting, I would buy something.

Yeah, that will teach them a lesson.

Here's a thought. After BF has finally closed business (and long mey they rule), NO ONE will ever produce this kind of complicated and labour intensive wargames anymore. So let's praise ourselves lucky we've already got his much.

Edited January 13 by Aragorn2002

[CarlXII]

31 minutes ago, Aragorn2002 said:

NO ONE will ever produce this kind of complicated and labour intensive wargames anymore.

And you know this...how ?

32 minutes ago, Aragorn2002 said:

complicated and labour intensive wargames anymore.

The attention to details when it comes to OOBs, TOEs and such things are indeed impressive. What is far from equally impressive by todays standards are the performance of the AI and the design of the scenario editor.

A game can have very impressive unit modeling and LOS/LOF calculations etc but if the AI is not able to provide a somewhat realistic (thinking/reacting) enemy...The game looses some of its appeal imo. No matter how good the OOBs and TOEs are.

The limited amount of community created scenarios in recent years ought to be an indication of the fact that the scenario editor is somewhat clunky to work with. Some improvements might be in order.

The AI and the scenario editor have seen VERY limited upgrades in the last ten years (atleast) and by the sound of it is not in the pipeline for any future improvements anytime soon...Unless the 2024-bone part 2 will state othervise.

 

 

[Sunbather]

54 minutes ago, Aragorn2002 said:

NO ONE will ever produce this kind of complicated and labour intensive wargames anymore. So let's praise ourselves lucky we've already got his much.

What an incredibly ill-informed statement. Ever heard of Graviteam Tactics? Armored Brigade? War in the East? CSL Campaign Series? Command: Modern Operations? Heck, even a gamey game like Warno is "complicated and labour intensive" production.

[Vacillator]

3 hours ago, BornGinger said:

@Vacillator I don't care what the new module will have for the players to have fun with. I'm not going to buy any more modules or such with the game engine there is now.

And that is of course your choice, I've already bought it so my choice was different. 

I originally read your post as enthusiasm for the IR sights, but reading it again I see it was more about non-enthusiasm for night battles.  I'm not so keen on night battles either, but the IR sight might add some fun (if it is included, which I'm still not sure about).

[Erwin]

16 minutes ago, Sunbather said:

Ever heard of Graviteam Tactics? Armored Brigade? War in the East? CSL Campaign Series? Command: Modern Operations? Heck, even a gamey game like Warno is "complicated and labour intensive" production.

Those games are not direct competitors and offer a very different experience.  The closest game to CM I recall was "Panzer Elite" which was  far ahead of its time back in the last 1990's.  But, the CM2 series is way more sophisticated now.  So I agree with Aragorn:

1 hour ago, Aragorn2002 said:

NO ONE will ever produce this kind of complicated and labour intensive wargames anymore. So let's praise ourselves lucky we've already got his much.

 

[Vacillator]

Just now, Erwin said:

So I agree with Aragorn

I think I do too, I've tried most of those other games but what do I spend nearly all of my game time playing?  CM.

[Thewood1]

So is the only true comparison of CM an exact copy of CM?  I would easily put the graviteam games up there against CM.  And its wasn't stated as a copy of CM, complicated and detailed.  A far more complex wargame is CMO, by far.  Steel beasts is also far more detailed in many ways.

[Vacillator]

17 minutes ago, Thewood1 said:

I would easily put the graviteam games up there against CM

I had some fun with one of them (Kharkhov 1942 I think?) and I liked the editor well enough.

But as I said I spend all my time playing CM.  There must be a reason, other than my stupidity perhaps .

[Aragorn2002]

1 hour ago, Sunbather said:

What an incredibly ill-informed statement. Ever heard of Graviteam Tactics? Armored Brigade? War in the East? CSL Campaign Series? Command: Modern Operations? Heck, even a gamey game like Warno is "complicated and labour intensive" production.

Got them all, but not comparable to CM. 

[Dynaman216]

What all of those don't have that CM does is 3D WeGo with replay.  No other game seems to want to even attempt it.

[Artkin]

3 hours ago, Sunbather said:

What an incredibly ill-informed statement. Ever heard of Graviteam Tactics? Armored Brigade? War in the East? CSL Campaign Series? Command: Modern Operations? Heck, even a gamey game like Warno is "complicated and labour intensive" production.

Ill informed? No, he's right. 

Armored brigade is absolute garbage. 

Graviteam does not have the same micromanagement fidelity as CM.

War in the East is not the same scale. 

Warno is the same garbage thats been pushed out since Wargame: EE. 

[Sunbather]

2 hours ago, Vacillator said:

I think I do too, I've tried most of those other games but what do I spend nearly all of my game time playing?  CM.

 

2 hours ago, Erwin said:

Those games are not direct competitors and offer a very different experience.  The closest game to CM I recall was "Panzer Elite" which was  far ahead of its time back in the last 1990's.  But, the CM2 series is way more sophisticated now.  So I agree with Aragorn:

Yeah, that kind of "argumentation" (if one is generous enough to call it that) is easily enough flipped around. Swap out CM for GT or whatever, and you have the same effect in a like-minded forum. Heck, a 17-year old could say, I've tried all games but what game I have the most hours in? Fortnite! Alas, it must be the best game ever created.