Pak40 Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 After seeing both OOBs, the only thing I can say without giving anything away, is that this is going to be one hell of a weird battle. I'm really looking forward to it.Now hurry up and finish the AAR so they can release the damn game 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vincere Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 Bill:Question??? Can I start a thread for forum discussion of your battle knowing both sides?With spoilers- can you guys be gentlemen, agree and trust not to peak??? I understand if you prefer not, and I have asked the Axis. Also, I really like your OCOKA TERRAIN ANALYSIS And so looking forward to the action. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bil Hardenberger Posted December 9, 2015 Author Share Posted December 9, 2015 After seeing both OOBs, the only thing I can say without giving anything away, is that this is going to be one hell of a weird battle. I'm really looking forward to it.Now hurry up and finish the AAR so they can release the damn game I hope weird in a good way Bill:Question??? Can I start a thread for forum discussion of your battle knowing both sides?With spoilers- can you guys be gentlemen, agree and trust not to peak??? I understand if you prefer not, and I have asked the Axis. Also, I really like your OCOKA TERRAIN ANALYSIS And so looking forward to the action.Absolutely, that has been standard operating procedure for most BETA AARs and those threads are always a lot of fun to read after fact. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vincere Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 I hope weird in a good way Absolutely, that has been standard operating procedure for most BETA AARs and those threads are always a lot of fun to read after fact.Yah, thanks Bill. All is guud. I reckon your approaches already have spoiler talking points. Hey cheers, I also learnt something new today. I like the OCOKA analysis tool http://www.wpi.edu/academics/military/ocoka.html 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bil Hardenberger Posted December 9, 2015 Author Share Posted December 9, 2015 UNIT PURCHASESOkay, I went with Option B, some tweaking of the values allowed me to get five Hellcats for a total of 13 tanks.My Order of Battle for this AAR follows:TEAM HIT & FADE - Recon PlatoonHQ element withbazookaHQ Support Teamx2 jeepsx2 Recon Sectionsx3 Recon Teamsx3 jeepsx2 HMG jeepsx5 M18 Hellcats TEAM HUNT & KILLTEAM PAIN Sherman 76 Jumbo - HQSherman 76 Easy 8x2 M36TEAM PUNISHMENTSherman 76 Jumbo - HQSherman 76 Easy 8x2 M36NOTE: All of the following images were taken in the war movie mode, they simply looked better.This force looks awful small on this map. It's going to be interesting to see how this one develops.. still 13 tanks are not to be taken lightly. Team Hunt & Kill is made up of two platoons, called Team Pain and Team Punishment, both look like this:Team Hit & Fade:There are two teams with this organization: 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cobetco Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 I look forward to seeing you use those Armed jeeps. mine always have ummm... accidents. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c3k Posted December 10, 2015 Share Posted December 10, 2015 Gotta love the combination of a good gun on a thin AFV, and a "meh" gun on a thick-skinned AFV. Between them, you ought to get some good work done. Or not. And, yes, I like the naming conventions. Ken 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GhostRider3/3 Posted December 10, 2015 Share Posted December 10, 2015 Excellent.. soon we shall see some 50.cal flying.....dang where is "Rat Patrol" when you need them. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nik mond Posted December 10, 2015 Share Posted December 10, 2015 There is nothing faster than a Hell Cat in WW2. If you class tanks/TD under the same umbrella then the Hellcat was the fastest Tank/TD ever until the M1 Abrahms came along. Be interesting to see if that speed can be put to task here. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bil Hardenberger Posted December 11, 2015 Author Share Posted December 11, 2015 (edited) METT-T Analysis - Part 2TROOPS: I picked this force to do one main thing, to kill enemy armor and to limit my enemy's mobility. My main worry with this battle was how to successfully engage the heavy enemy armor I expect to face. I wanted to make sure I was very capable in that aspect of the battle and with any luck I could hopefully outnumber the enemy armor and be able to project more anti-armor combat power at least in a few restricted zones at a time than my opponent.I knew I wanted an infantry force to scout for me, so I chose the Recon Platoon with its 12 jeeps, as it is a good size, can be spread across the entire width of the map, is fast and hopefully can be survivable. But this force needed some teeth, so I decided to beef it up with some TDs in support. These TDs will not only be there to protect the scouts, but will be used in an offensive manner as the situation allows.The Tank force, made up of two mixed tank platoons will be my main quick action force, and I hope that it will be able to take on anything Baneman brings to the show.OUTPOST SECTOR - TEAM HIT & FADERecon platoon on jeeps with 5 Hellcats in support.Mission Overview: identify, disrupt, harass, and channelize enemy formations into kill sacks, concentrating on killing armor and personnel carriers, preferably by concentration of fire from more than one vehicle/team at a time. Main task is identification of enemy formations and avenues of approach. Secondary task is attrition of enemy combat power. Unit survivability trumps killing enemy units, If enemy cannot be engaged in an advantageous and confident manner then do not engage. Withdraw when threatened by enemy movement or fire. Need to identify and setup positions along several lines through the battle space with covered routes from one line to the next. MAIN DEFENSE SECTOR - TEAM HUNT & KILLTwo mixed tank platoons – One Jumbo (76mm), one Easy 8 (76mm), and two M-36 Jacksons (90mm) Mission Overview: work with Team Hit & Fade to kill as many enemy combat assets as possible. Main goal is to kill the enemy armored vehiclesSlowly withdraw if the pressure gets too great or the enemy starts to concentrate on one of the Hunter-Killer platoons. Keep the tanks and TDs alive as long as possible, trade space for time and DO NOT allow a breakthrough!Priority of fires: armorpersonnel carriersmortars or gunssupport weapons (HMGs, AT teams, engineers)infantry. The intent is to eliminate his mobility first then concentrate on the dismounts. TIME: Scenario lasts 1.5 hours. Edited December 11, 2015 by Bil Hardenberger 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bradley Posted December 11, 2015 Share Posted December 11, 2015 Killing Jerry! Nothing better 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
womble Posted December 11, 2015 Share Posted December 11, 2015 Will the recon elements be operating dismounted a lot, with their rides parked in nearby defilade for a swift getaway? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockinHarry Posted December 11, 2015 Share Posted December 11, 2015 That´s a sound force composition and intended tactical purposes is too. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agua Posted December 11, 2015 Share Posted December 11, 2015 Heh.... yeah, this should be interesting. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bil Hardenberger Posted December 11, 2015 Author Share Posted December 11, 2015 Will the recon elements be operating dismounted a lot, with their rides parked in nearby defilade for a swift getaway?Except for the HMG mounted vehicles, yep that's the idea. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StormDog Posted December 11, 2015 Share Posted December 11, 2015 METT-T Analysis - Part 2TROOPS: I picked this force to do one main thing, to kill enemy armor and to limit my enemy's mobility. My main worry with this battle was how to successfully engage the heavy enemy armor I expect to face. I wanted to make sure I was very capable in that aspect of the battle and with any luck I could hopefully outnumber the enemy armor and be able to project more anti-armor combat power at least in a few restricted zones at a time than my opponent.I knew I wanted an infantry force to scout for me, so I chose the Recon Platoon with its 12 jeeps, as it is a good size, can be spread across the entire width of the map, is fast and hopefully can be survivable. But this force needed some teeth, so I decided to beef it up with some TDs in support. These TDs will not only be there to protect the scouts, but will be used in an offensive manner as the situation allows.The Tank force, made up of two mixed tank platoons will be my main quick action force, and I hope that it will be able to take on anything Baneman brings to the show.OUTPOST SECTOR - TEAM HIT & FADERecon platoon on jeeps with 5 Hellcats in support.Mission Overview: identify, disrupt, harass, and channelize enemy formations into kill sacks, concentrating on killing armor and personnel carriers, preferably by concentration of fire from more than one vehicle/team at a time. Main task is identification of enemy formations and avenues of approach. Secondary task is attrition of enemy combat power. Unit survivability trumps killing enemy units, If enemy cannot be engaged in an advantageous and confident manner then do not engage. Withdraw when threatened by enemy movement or fire. Need to identify and setup positions along several lines through the battle space with covered routes from one line to the next. MAIN DEFENSE SECTOR - TEAM HUNT & KILLTwo mixed tank platoons – One Jumbo (76mm), one Easy 8 (76mm), and two M-36 Jacksons (90mm) Mission Overview: work with Team Hit & Fade to kill as many enemy combat assets as possible. Main goal is to kill the enemy armored vehiclesSlowly withdraw if the pressure gets too great or the enemy starts to concentrate on one of the Hunter-Killer platoons. Keep the tanks and TDs alive as long as possible, trade space for time and DO NOT allow a breakthrough!Priority of fires: armorpersonnel carriersmortars or gunssupport weapons (HMGs, AT teams, engineers)infantry. The intent is to eliminate his mobility first then concentrate on the dismounts. TIME: Scenario lasts 1.5 hours.Hi Bill, I've followed much of what you've published, and enjoyed following your AARs. I have a few questions.Assuming the two recon teams will be initially assigned to separate sectors, and will operate somewhat independently of each other, will you attach elements of the Hellcat unit to each team, or will you initially keep the Hellcats together as a single unit.And, regarding teams Hunt & Kill, will they be deployed to separate sectors, or kept as a central reserve to be used together or independently when the opportunity presents itself.Thanks!Joe 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bil Hardenberger Posted December 11, 2015 Author Share Posted December 11, 2015 Hi Bill, I've followed much of what you've published, and enjoyed following your AARs. I have a few questions.Assuming the two recon teams will be initially assigned to separate sectors, and will operate somewhat independently of each other, will you attach elements of the Hellcat unit to each team, or will you initially keep the Hellcats together as a single unit.And, regarding teams Hunt & Kill, will they be deployed to separate sectors, or kept as a central reserve to be used together or independently when the opportunity presents itself.Thanks!Joe For now I am keeping all five together, centrally located so they can react where needed. Team Hunt and Kill's platoons will be in reserve, located on each wing but ready to converge as the situation dictates. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Combatintman Posted December 11, 2015 Share Posted December 11, 2015 Bill - it goes without saying I am enjoying this. Can we dial back a bit - first of all the mission which you stated in an earlier post was ...MISSION: Word from higher HQ is to delay and attrit, the enemy if he chooses to attack through my AO, applying stiffer and stiffer resistance as he penetrates the zone. There can be no withdrawal out of this zone, we will hold to the last man or tank.Secondly (related to the mission) the ground. From my understanding terrain objectives are spots along Phase Lines however I don't know their values.Third - time and distance.I would find it really useful if you could expand on your understanding of casualty and terrain objective values plus your understanding of how long you think it will take Baneman's troops and vehicles to reach each objective so that I can visualise potential COAs better. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hank24 Posted December 11, 2015 Share Posted December 11, 2015 Good idea. Will do. Basing a map on real elevation changes and terrain features is very hard to replicate. Too bad Google Earth doesn't include topographical contours (yet at least). It would make map making even more of a delight. I know there are work arounds, but still.You would like to see terrain contours? Here they are:http://opentopomap.org/#map=15/50.05810/5.74651By the way, I am absolutely excited to see this new game and the DAR - thanks. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bil Hardenberger Posted December 11, 2015 Author Share Posted December 11, 2015 Bill - it goes without saying I am enjoying this. Can we dial back a bit - first of all the mission which you stated in an earlier post was ...MISSION: Word from higher HQ is to delay and attrit, the enemy if he chooses to attack through my AO, applying stiffer and stiffer resistance as he penetrates the zone. There can be no withdrawal out of this zone, we will hold to the last man or tank.Secondly (related to the mission) the ground. From my understanding terrain objectives are spots along Phase Lines however I don't know their values.Third - time and distance.I would find it really useful if you could expand on your understanding of casualty and terrain objective values plus your understanding of how long you think it will take Baneman's troops and vehicles to reach each objective so that I can visualise potential COAs better. Thanks Combat-man.The objectives are composite, so the first line of four separate objectives are in fact one "game" objective, Phase Line Cobru (objective 1) (four locations) = 153 points, Phase Line 2 Objective (3 locations) = 153 points, Phase Line Objective 3 (2 locations) = 115 points), Phase Line Objective 4 (2 locations) = 76 pointsDistances: 1 km from the German map edge to the Phase Line 1 objectives.. he could close on that fairly quickly, my goal is to make him tentative to move forward.. I have not done an analysis of travelling in these conditions, but the terrain is very open so there will be few obstacles other than my troops to hinder him...From Phase Line 1 to Phase Line 2 it is 1.2 km.. I am hoping that this area between these two phase lines will be a killing ground for me.. From Phase Line 2 to Phase Line 3 is around 725mFrom Phase Line 3 to Phase Line 4 is around 300m. To be honest if he gets past Phase Line 2 the terrain gets closer, and the fighting should be brutal, but to be honest I do not have the force for a fight like that, so I hope to keep him in front of Phase Line 2.Sorry I don't have the travel times on hand between these objective lines. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sttp Posted December 11, 2015 Share Posted December 11, 2015 You would like to see terrain contours? Here they are:http://opentopomap.org/#map=15/50.05810/5.74651By the way, I am absolutely excited to see this new game and the DAR - thanks.Very cool, and very helpful.Incidentally, Foy is much closer to Recogne than I'd realized... which makes me wonder if Foy might show up in CMFB's campaigns or default battles.It's such a ubiquitous setting and situation -- Easy Company, Maj. Dick Winters, Band of Brothers, the original Call of Duty game (the only good CoD game along with World at War, IMO), and all that stuff....BFC did put a Brecourt Manor scenario in the original CMBN, so they're obviously not opposed to the concept of tackling such a thing. But even if not included, I'm sure someone would hammer out the Foy scenario as an add-on pretty quickly, and having accurate terrain elevations would of course be essential. So thanks. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocketman Posted December 11, 2015 Share Posted December 11, 2015 You would like to see terrain contours? Here they are:http://opentopomap.org/#map=15/50.05810/5.74651By the way, I am absolutely excited to see this new game and the DAR - thanks.Great map resource - thanks! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Combatintman Posted December 11, 2015 Share Posted December 11, 2015 Bill, thanks for that - so unless I'm mistaken, while Baneman has more points to spend it seems you have the advantage because you only need to deny him parts of Phase Line 2 and all of Phase Lines 3 and 4 to win. Added to that, to reach Phase Line 2 he has to cover 2.2km in 90 minutes ... I'm glad I declined your challenge!!!! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Speakup Posted December 11, 2015 Share Posted December 11, 2015 Great map resource - thanks!Seconded. Great stuff 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benpark Posted December 12, 2015 Share Posted December 12, 2015 Very cool, and very helpful.Incidentally, Foy is much closer to Recogne than I'd realized... which makes me wonder if Foy might show up in CMFB's campaigns or default battles.Remember you are only seeing a cut down area of the full master map in this AAR! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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