More Bulge Info! (and a few screenshots...)

[John Kettler]

BLSTK,

 

Thank you for this from the bottom of my heart! Now I know what I've really put myself out there to convey was "heard," felt and understood by a fellow human being. I hear you and relate on that father and emotion stuff. My dad knew one real emotion--rage. Sure, he cared about his wife and kids, but he couldn't express it. Ironically, he was a very tactile person. Figure out that one. It took Mom's pancreatic cancer late in the game (40 years wed) to open him up emotionally, for it was then he had to man up and take her for a change, ride herd on the doctors, be attentive to her needs--until her death. What a concept! I find it shocking and sad there seems to be so little care for our fellows here, though I have seen condolences to one guy whose dad died recently. Also, I'm not the only one here dealing with a brain injury. All it takes is one good smack to do it. This is why schools are suddenly all over concussions, for it's now known that all it takes is one concussion to set up a player for outright death from the next head blow, even with a helmet on. Thank you, too, for your very kind final thought.

 

Regards,

 

John Kettler

 

P.S.

I really miss my brain. If you come across it, please have it come home!

[DaddyO]

sburke,

 

Part of that was another aspect of the lifelong condition I mentioned, as well as a real need to be heard, but also what Pascal said about writing a short letter. The singleminded focus you've seen me exhibit many times served me very well as a military analyst, but it was one my bosses had to train me to rein in because, left to my own devices, I might well have dug the investigation hole clear to China. All well and good, but there are these things called schedules and budgets which have to be factored in. Since I've now said what I felt long needed saying, you probably won't be seeing the post equivalent of a Tolstoy novel any time soon! 

 

c3k,

 

More like everything I do is in spite of the things listed. If I could count on even one good day a week, it would change everything. Am talking not merely in CM but would radically improve my life, including my economy. For now, though, I can't. How I wish I could just sit down and play CM! You have no idea how fortunate you are in that regard. If there is good news in all this, over and above helping the Forumites understand the man behind the posts, it's that I'm in the beginning stages of a heavy duty TBI workup (leapt through many hoops to get to it) and that some specialized supplements I'm taking, over and above a whopping B Complex dose and my other vitamins and such, seem to be helping. Mental acuity has improved, likewise sleep and energy. Am therefore cautiously optimistic that once I figure out/am taught how to use CMH, SLIM and I may actually get to play a PBEM. This'll be my first since I got the game in 2012. Wish SLIM and myself luck!

 

Regards,

 

John Kettler

 

John. Hang in there. Some won't understand at all, some will mock, some will be given to a sort of general forbearance, most will scratch their heads and move on, and a few who have had to deal with similar obstacles in their life will recognize what you are going through and truly understand.

[Thewood1]

This forum isn't a therapy session.  If its that important, you need to go find some real help.  This is just creaming out for attention from people who can't or won't help.  Just stop posting and go talk to someone.

[CPC922]

So... no news? 

Edited May 12, 2015 by CPC922

[PanzerMike]

Lots of people happily slaving away at the Bulge game to bring it to a computer near you. That's it for now I guess. 

I am sure Chris will put up new screenshots and stuff eventually. Patience my friend.

Edited May 12, 2015 by PanzerMike

[MikeyD]

One nice thing about the Bulge battles is its one of the few theaters of operation where CM-style 'meeting engagements' feel legitimate. You've got two opposing tank armies both on the move. Often in the fog! Most other CM theaters of operations attack vs defense is the rule. Attack vs attack seems 'gamey' somehow, opposing tank battalions would never really stumble upon each other blindly, right? In the Bulge maybe they would! Also most other theaters German armor would never outnumber American armor in a battle. In the Bulge maybe they would!

There's another advantage - in my mind at least - in that the opening engagements are so badly documented. That's a good thing. All was confusion and panic. So you can construct imagined 'semi-historical' scenarios of the wildest sort without guilt. No references to consult. Nobody's going to call you out for using Hetzers instead of Jpz IVs in a particular engagement, excepting in the better-documented encounters.

[Pak40]

One nice thing about the Bulge battles is its one of the few theaters of operation where CM-style 'meeting engagements' feel legitimate. You've got two opposing tank armies both on the move. Often in the fog! Most other CM theaters of operations attack vs defense is the rule. Attack vs attack seems 'gamey' somehow, opposing tank battalions would never really stumble upon each other blindly, right? In the Bulge maybe they would! Also most other theaters German armor would never outnumber American armor in a battle. In the Bulge maybe they would!

There's another advantage - in my mind at least - in that the opening engagements are so badly documented. That's a good thing. All was confusion and panic. So you can construct imagined 'semi-historical' scenarios of the wildest sort without guilt. No references to consult. Nobody's going to call you out for using Hetzers instead of Jpz IVs in a particular engagement, excepting in the better-documented encounters.

 

This may generally be true in the 106th Division's area but there are indeed good sources for the other areas. I'm currently reading a detailed account of the 110th regiment of the 28th Division. I've also read a two volume book about the 99th, 2nd, and 1st Divisions' defense of the northern shoulder. Both sources are quite detailed in men, material, movements and battles. The southern should is well documented and so are a lot of the central chaotic areas such as st vith and Piper's forces.

[PanzerMike]

Bulge base game provides all the stuff for making more obscure battles too besides the Ardennes area. Even more so when Commonwealth is added to the mix at some point. Lots of opportunity for good variation!

Edited May 12, 2015 by PanzerMike

[panzersaurkrautwerfer]

 

One nice thing about the Bulge battles is its one of the few theaters of operation where CM-style 'meeting engagements' feel legitimate. You've got two opposing tank armies both on the move. Often in the fog! Most other CM theaters of operations attack vs defense is the rule. Attack vs attack seems 'gamey' somehow, opposing tank battalions would never really stumble upon each other blindly, right? In the Bulge maybe they would! Also most other theaters German armor would never outnumber American armor in a battle. In the Bulge maybe they would!

There's another advantage - in my mind at least - in that the opening engagements are so badly documented. That's a good thing. All was confusion and panic. So you can construct imagined 'semi-historical' scenarios of the wildest sort without guilt. No references to consult. Nobody's going to call you out for using Hetzers instead of Jpz IVs in a particular engagement, excepting in the better-documented encounters.

 

Also just beyond hardware you have a wide variety of troop quality on each side.  There's some American units that by this point are hardened veteran, kraut killing machines (2nd, 3rd, 4th Armored all stand out for tank units, 1st, and 2nd ID to a similar extent for dismounts) while others are absolutely new to the idea of two way rifle ranges (11th Armored, 106th ID etc).  The same goes with German units, some composed of hardened veterans, others could at best be represented by the "conscript" troop quality in CM.  

 

It's really an excellent, and historically correct blank slate for building a scenario, lots of equipment and formations all colliding in sharp nasty fights pretty much tailor made for Combat Mission.  

[Rinaldi]

Well I mean, got to be careful with the Geman units; and some of the harder hit US infantry outfits. Veteran outfits doesn't necessarily mean an outfit of veterans. I'm hoping a few scenarios capture this with wildly fluctuating skill and veterancy levels even down to the individual platoons and squads, given the 'trickle-in' system of replacements used by the US at the time. I think that's as applicable to the Germans, at the larger unit level  - You tend to run low on experienced junior leadership when you get your teeth kicked in all the way back to the Franco-German border.

Edited May 16, 2015 by Rinaldi

[panzersaurkrautwerfer]

Oh totally.  The all elite/crack forces in scenarios are terrible and ahistoric.  I'm just saying we're looking at a wide spectrum of units, so a reversal of the classic "tired and worn out, but very experienced Germans vs new to war but fairly fresh and well kitted out Allies" dynamic can be entirely reversed easily in the Bulge, and there's a lot of interesting units from "pull this to not fall to your death. WELCOME TO THE FALLSHRIMJAGERS!" to the US armor crew and infantry in 2 AD and 1 ID that had seen combat from Africa, to Italy, through Normandy, and beyond.  Then you toss in the wild mess of late war US Armor, German late war stuff, and the bottom of the barrel, and a battle best characterized as a wild series of meeting engagements, hasty defenses, and anything from Divisions colliding to squad vs squad,  it really offers an amazing tool kit, and if we see a Commonwealth module, and a "to the Rhine and VE day" module too, there's just so much possibility.  

[Duckman]

Good posts. The German fall in quality from Normandy to the Bulge was pronounced, caused by the replacement machine finally not being able to keep up after the double blows of Summer 44.

 

When you read accounts from Normandy German small unit tactics are widely praised, and often seen as superior (this was of course exacerbated by Allied inexperience in quite a few cases). However in the Bulge there seems to be a general consensus that German small unit tactics were generally poor (frontal assault instead of infiltration, etc), which is quite the opposite to Normandy were good small unit performance could often save poor tactical and even operational situations (e.g. Caen).

 

Allied units had also picked up more automatic weapons, some via TOE and others unofficially, which helped close the infantry firepower gap you sometimes get in Normandy accounts. Ideally this will show in the game, with veteran units having more stuff.

[kohlenklau]

For my long range planning purposes....Anybody interested? 

 

[Heinrich505]

Kohl,

  You are gonna need some serious modding to replicate the Hürtgen Forest if you plan to run those poor Pennsylvanians from the 28th Division through that meat grinder again.

 

  You might bring RockinHarry out of semi-retirement as he had a really stellar Hürtgen Forest mod for CMAK.

 

Heinrich505

[Childress]

  You are gonna need some serious modding to replicate the Hürtgen Forest 

 

The Hurtgen was so densely wooded that mortar teams- on both sides- had a helluva time finding suitable denuded patches from which to lob their bombs. Is this impediment simulated in CM?

[kohlenklau]

Sorry Gary, not Hürtgenwald....I was aiming toward the delaying actions east of the Bastogne corridor...

 

"Alamo in the Ardennes"

[MikeyD]

I've heard complaints in other CM titles about mortar teams not firing. Often it turned out they didn't have LOF, too close to some tall building that blocked the shot.

[Childress]

I've heard complaints in other CM titles about mortar teams not firing. Often it turned out they didn't have LOF, too close to some tall building that blocked the shot.

 

I've noticed the thing with buildings. But forest canopies don't seem don't seem to exert an inhibiting effect. Maybe something to incorporate into the Bulge title?

[kohlenklau]

If the first mortar round hits the branches, it will probably clear them out of the way...for the next crew that shows to take over the mortar from the dead guys.

[Odin]

First off, I just want to make this clear, I love CM2. I've spent more time playing the series than any other game / game series. 

 

It's because I love the series so much that I feel pained that as a lonstanding customer who has spent a lot of money on Battlefront products that I feel I'm being taken for granted when being asked to pay a full game price for a title which, from what I've read in terms of features/content, does not warrant a full game price. This is why I believe this to be so - Bulge will be using the pre-existing v3 engine; add little in the way of extra units when compared to BN, FI, or RT; and although it will provide a new 'battle setting', from what BF have written it will not be significantly different to what can be obtained through the FI 'Battle of the Bulge mod'.

 

I understand that from a marketing point of view it makes complete sense for BF to offer Bulge as a new game, as it is likely to attract new customers who are enticed by the Ardennes setting who do not want to have to purchase CMBN. However, for those of us who have stood by BF throughout CM2, I feel we are being taken for granted as we will receive little new material for our $55 while we'll also go through the hassle or installing a new game and mods which is perhaps an even bigger bug bear for me than paying an extra $20.

 

So if we must be asked to do this, I think the least BF could do is offer Bulge to owners of CMBN and the v3 engine at a price similar to what we paid for MG, (lets face it, MG, which came with the v3 upgrade, offered more content than what BF has proposed Bulge will do). At the very most we should only be paying a price equivalent to independently buying an engine upgrade and module pack (ie $45) - I realise this woudn't be a significant saving, but it would at least make me feel a little more respected as a longterm customer. Alternatively, perhaps BF could extend the timeframe of the game to May 45 to represent better value for money (I realise this is unlikely to happen as there is extra money to be made selling this as a $35 module  ).

 

If I've missed a post from BF stating we won't be asked to pay full game price, please ignore this, I haven't read all the posts on the thread. However, if I haven't missed anything significant on pricing I don't want to have arguments with people who tell me my views are plain wrong or I'm an idiot - which seems to have happened to a few other unfortunate posters complaing about the state of affairs. I am just posting my opinion on the matter and ultimately I'll probably end up buying the game even if asked to pay $55. If ask to do so though, it will undoubtedly leave a bad after-taste  .  

[Thewood1]

At this point, I doubt there are many non-CMBN owners out there that would jump into the CMBulge game.  I think that each of the major theaters is captured audience that doesn't expand more than a few new players that might offset current players not buying in.

[A Canadian Cat]

Oh joy price again as a topic.  I, personally, know nothing of pricing strategy but one thing that stuck with me talking to a fellow in the marketing department where I work about price was his statement "if there are at least some customers out there who decided *not* to buy because of price you probably have the price set correctly".  I guess from the above recent post the price is still to low because @Odin still plans to buy

[Placebo]

Odin,  I am taking a different view, I hope Battlefront put in plenty of new content to warrant the full price game tag.  Info is still quite sparse on the game and they have a history of not commiting to anything until it is definitely making into the the game so I would wait and see.

[Fizou]

I dont think BF will disapoint and I think its sad when people jump to that conclusion given BF track record.

[GhostRider3/3]

Battle of the Bulge has so many interesting what if's as well.  But even with the what if's in mind, the historical battles alone are epic.

 

I cant wait for a FOY scenario taking straight out of "Band of Brothers"  where is Capt' Spears!

 

Price.... I hate talking about price... If you have to ask how much, then you cant afford it.  I love playing Battlefront not only because the games are very well done, but the forums and the entire battlefront family if you will have always been helpful, informative and well, pretty damn cool. 

 

J.

 

Semper Fi.