More Bulge Info! (and a few screenshots...)

[Fizou]

Im afraid all the whining might have BFC reluctant to throw us a new bone. A update to road ahead would be really nice.

[kohlenklau]

6 June! 

 

Keep the sand out of your rifles and I will see you on the beaches.

[--WOKI--]

any news for release date?

it's nice to see Befehls and berge for repairing the tank

[Copper]

Mmmmmmmm..Maybe Dec. 16 will be the release date.

[womble]

any news for release date?

it's nice to see Befehls and berge for repairing the tank

There pretty much won't be any repairing of any tank (or any gear, explicitly) in the CM timescale/environment. The units might be there, but vehicle recovery and repair isn't in the game's scope.

[kohlenklau]

Idea for BFC consideration:

Maybe time for a repeat customer discount program .

It says a big thanks for helping us keep the lights on and the game mill turning. X% for every game of BFC's you have previously purchased and maxes out at Y%.

Edited June 15, 2015 by kohlenklau

[Doc W]

Outstanding that Battlefront is building a Battle of the Bulge addition to CMBN!!  

 

The screenshots look great!   A reminder ... the Tiger-I Pz-VI Ausf. E in your second screenshot likely did not participate in the Ardennes Offensive.  Some King Tigers (Tiger-II) were used, arguably with poor results.  Jochen Peiper decided to relegate his slow moving King Tigers to the rear of his column of march.  

 

But I really enjoyed taking a picture next to No. 213 in La Gleize Belgium with Battle of the Bulge historian Will Cavanagh!

Bravo on the new CMBN Battle of the Bulge game, I volunteer to playtest!  

 

- Doc

 

 

[--WOKI--]

we need lot of slot separate for set tanks skins too !! if possible please considered to seperate each model texture file not combining the set

Edited June 16, 2015 by --WOKI--

[CarlWAW]

we need lot of slot separate for set tanks skins too !! if possible please considered to seperate each model texture file not combining the set

 

 

I find the current system with scenario related mods very confusing and not good.

The game knows, where the scenarios are stored. A more straighforward and user and scenario designer friendly solution would be, if it would simply check, if there exists a subfolder with the same name in the scenario folder. If such a subfolder exists, the game additionally loads the contained BMPs or BRZs in that folder.

Edited June 16, 2015 by CarlWAW

[sburke]

I find the current system with scenario related mods very confusing and not good.

The game knows, where the scenarios are stored. A more straighforward and user and scenario designer friendly solution would be, if it would simply check, if there exists a subfolder with the same name in the scenario folder. If such a subfolder exists, the game additionally loads the contained BMPs or BRZs in that folder.

then you'd have to have a subfolder for every scenario that you want to use a mod in that would be filled with the same files?  Nah I think the current set up is pretty flexible and works really well and takes up less space on my hard drive.  Tagging is actually pretty cool, and when the 173rd airborne campaign for CMBS is finally out, you'll see a very good example of how well it works.

Edited June 16, 2015 by sburke

[kohlenklau]

I think for the Woki posts for Kingtiger 222, you could rename that vehicle's bmp files with [222] at the end and then tag the scenario with 222.txt and you are a nephew of Robert! aka Bob's your uncle.

Edited June 16, 2015 by kohlenklau

[kohlenklau]

Outstanding that Battlefront is building a Battle of the Bulge addition to CMBN!!  

 

The screenshots look great!   A reminder ... the Tiger-I Pz-VI Ausf. E in your second screenshot likely did not participate in the Ardennes Offensive.  Some King Tigers (Tiger-II) were used, arguably with poor results.  Jochen Peiper decided to relegate his slow moving King Tigers to the rear of his column of march.  

 

But I really enjoyed taking a picture next to No. 213 in La Gleize Belgium with Battle of the Bulge historian Will Cavanagh!

Bravo on the new CMBN Battle of the Bulge game, I volunteer to playtest!  

 

- Doc

It is not exactly an addition/module/add-on to CMBN, it is a whole new separate stand-alone independent game.

[Bud Backer]

Outstanding that Battlefront is building a Battle of the Bulge addition to CMBN!!  

 

The screenshots look great!   A reminder ... the Tiger-I Pz-VI Ausf. E in your second screenshot likely did not participate in the Ardennes Offensive.  Some King Tigers (Tiger-II) were used, arguably with poor results.  Jochen Peiper decided to relegate his slow moving King Tigers to the rear of his column of march.  

 

But I really enjoyed taking a picture next to No. 213 in La Gleize Belgium with Battle of the Bulge historian Will Cavanagh!

Bravo on the new CMBN Battle of the Bulge game, I volunteer to playtest!  

 

- Doc

I was at that museum in the late 90's. I really liked it, it had a good set of displays and at the time, the curator was an elderly gent who was delighted in the questions I was asking and took me outside the museum to show me where he was during the battle when he was a boy. It was a special experience.

[BLSTK]

 

 kohlenklau wrote:

 

"...and you are a nephew of Robert! aka Bob's your uncle."

 

Kohl Buddy, it's no fun if you have to spell it out for 'em. Make 'em earn their stripes.

Edited June 16, 2015 by BLSTK

[CarlWAW]

then you'd have to have a subfolder for every scenario that you want to use a mod in that would be filled with the same files?  Nah I think the current set up is pretty flexible and works really well and takes up less space on my hard drive.  Tagging is actually pretty cool, and when the 173rd airborne campaign for CMBS is finally out, you'll see a very good example of how well it works.

1. I am not sure if I understand you. There are not that many scenarios and campaigns out there anyway. So where is a problem?

2. HDD space is huge and cheap. There will never exist enough modded scenarios to fill a HDD.

3. Tidy, no confusion. If a scenario/campaign is finished, it can be deleted and with it all associated mods in the most comfortable way. You should like that, you know, your argument about wasting HDD space...

4. Much easier to create for scenario designers. Therefore much more inviting for designers to use.

5. As easy to install as a single scenario.

6. No obsolete, unused tagged mods.

7. If a player doesn't want to use the mods, he doesn't need to research tags, he just deletes the subfolder.

 

It's hard to imagine how someone can defend such a complicated system with so many disadvantages.

Edited June 16, 2015 by CarlWAW

[umlaut]

2. HDD space is huge and cheap. There will never exist enough modded scenarios to fill a HDD.

 

I think you may have missed something here: It is not the scenarios in themselves that are going to use all the HDD space, but the mods. Some mod sets can be huge. For instance my Factory Mod set for Red Thunder (probably the largest there is): It is 603 MB´s. So if you used that for four scenarios, you would have used nearly 2,5 GB of HDD space.

[sburke]

1. I am not sure if I understand you. There are not that many scenarios and campaigns out there anyway. So where is a problem?

2. HDD space is huge and cheap. There will never exist enough modded scenarios to fill a HDD.

3. Tidy, no confusion. If a scenario/campaign is finished, it can be deleted and with it all associated mods in the most comfortable way. You should like that, you know, your argument about wasting HDD space...

4. Much easier to create for scenario designers. Therefore much more inviting for designers to use.

5. As easy to install as a single scenario.

6. No obsolete, unused tagged mods.

7. If a player doesn't want to use the mods, he doesn't need to research tags, he just deletes the subfolder.

 

It's hard to imagine how someone can defend such a complicated system with so many disadvantages.

Actually it is pretty easy once one understand tags. 

Who here ever deletes scenarios/campaigns off their PC?  Anyone?  Bueller?

The number of scenarios will continue to grow.

The user doesn't need to do any research, only the scenario designer needs to understand how to name his mod files to be used with his tag.  A scenario can also have multiple tags. 

I don't understand your thoughts on obsolete tags. 

 

As to being easier to create, again wait till you see the 173 AB campaign.  Mod tags are actually easy and very flexible.  For a designer, it is simply a matter of having your mod files named correctly and a text file added in the scenario.  It isn't rocket science  The user who downloads the scenario doesn't have to worry about any subfolders or the mods affecting any other scenarios.

 

 

Question and this is not to be argumentative, but how well do you understand tags for mods?  Are your above statements based in understanding or assumptions?  I ask because some of your statements indicate you might not actually understand how the tags work.

 

Edit to add some notes

I have 124 scenarios in my CMBN folder.  A few are duplicates utilizing the same map, but different forces.  For your example I would need two copies of my mods.  With tags I only need one no matter how many copies of the scenario I have (I do have for example in CMFI 5 copies of one scenario based on some stuff I am testing.)

Edited June 17, 2015 by sburke

[kohlenklau]

Carl,

It says you just joined on 29May and you have 14 posts. Can you please hang out a bit and then maybe post a separate thread to raise your new idea?

 

anyway

 

Have you made any mods and put tags on them and placed them in your z folder? Maybe a cool tank with "Carl" on the side that took you months to finish and of course it is tagged [Carl] at the end of the file name.

Now you upload that beauty of a mod to the Gaj site. ...and then tell everybody to download simply tag their scenarios with the text file Carl.txt and then they see your tank!

Or would you want them to copy 100 hundred copies of the mod all clogging the hard drive?

if your tank mod is super awesome then it gets saved without a [Carl] ending and then it is the player's choice to load it to z to ALWAYS see it if it is indeed a worthy everyday use mod as the default PzKpfXXX UberMaus.

 

And what if you want a cool scenario I have? It can be a small file to e-mail, maybe 100kB or maybe with a bunch of francy briefing maps it grows to 1-10MB?

Then with your system, you'd also send a giant subfolder along? Oh boy. No good.

 

Do you see it from our POV yet?

[John Kettler]

Doc W,

 

Welcome aboard!

 

Regarding the La Gleize KT, which one's you? Or is that PERSEC? Ever since I knew there was a very nicely painted (saw a pic) KT at La Gleize, I've wanted to go and see it. sounds like you had a wonderful experience while there. Lucky you! Love your taste in avatars (P-47 Thunderbolt's one of my favorite warplanes), but I think it'll fly faster with the landing gear up!

 

Regards,

 

John Kettler

[CarlWAW]

Have you made any mods and put tags on them and placed them in your z folder? Maybe a cool tank with "Carl" on the side that took you months to finish and of course it is tagged [Carl] at the end of the file name.

Now you upload that beauty of a mod to the Gaj site. ...and then tell everybody to download simply tag their scenarios with the text file Carl.txt and then they see your tank!

Or would you want them to copy 100 hundred copies of the mod all clogging the hard drive?

if your tank mod is super awesome then it gets saved without a [Carl] ending and then it is the player's choice to load it to z to ALWAYS see it if it is indeed a worthy everyday use mod as the default PzKpfXXX UberMaus.

Kohlenklau,

if I want a mod from you or anyone else, it would be installed in my mod folder and I would have it available all the time. -Y No need for tags to see cool mods from modders.

But the real power of individual modding lies in individualizing battles. A certain unit, certain buildings in a certain scenario or campaign. All that works with a simple subfolder. And if someone prefers his beloved standard mods, he just removes the subfolder.

 

 

 

And what if you want a cool scenario I have? It can be a small file to e-mail, maybe 100kB or maybe with a bunch of francy briefing maps it grows to 1-10MB?

Then with your system, you'd also send a giant subfolder along? Oh boy. No good.

And with the current system nobody sees your mods anyway. I don't have the time nor do I want the time to search if a mod exists to a corresponding scenario.

Additionally if BFC offers only huge 15 GB downloads for customers to be even able to install a module, then I think the size of a few MB for scenario is moot. Additionally since PBEM turns easily can exceed 100 MB per turn.

But that's not all:

Even if I would have the time to search for mods corresponding with a scenario, I wouldn't do it, because there is no data consistency. Which version of the mod belongs to the scenario? Is scenario X the older scenario that is covered by mod A, or is it the newer scenario which isn't covered by your old mods?

And to prevent that, the size argument even comes hunting you: if you want to make sure, all people have all the mods you use in a scenario, then you must offer mod packs, if you don't expect players to go hunting for all available mods from you and finding out which one is the newest version, or if there maybe could exist a newer version somewhere. So instead of just packing the corresponding files into the scenario's subfolder and making sure, that players get the scenario in the form you expect it to look like, they would even need to download mod packs to be on the safe side.

The current system is awful from a data consistency point of view, it is not user friendly, not modder friendly. And the amount of work to program something like tags probably cost way more precious development time than to check if a subfolder of the same filename exists and load the BMPs or BRZs from that folder.

Edited June 17, 2015 by CarlWAW

[sburke]

Kohlenklau,

The current system is awful from a data consistency point of view, it is not user friendly, not modder friendly. And the amount of work to program something like tags probably cost way more precious development time than to check if a subfolder of the same filename exists and load the BMPs or BRZs from that folder.

Honestly I think the modders disagree with you.  And as to user friendly, it is absolutely 0% harder than adding any mod.  In fact for the user you just do exactly what you already do.That should be enough for you to question the validity of your reasoning.  If not, oh well.  It really isn't worth arguing over. It is ultimately BF's decision and it is them you'd need to convince.  My agreeing or not with you doesn't really affect that much if at all.

Edited June 17, 2015 by sburke

[kohlenklau]

Hi Carl, 

 

I am seeing your point but it is coming across as sub-optimized for you personally. Born from your understandable frustrations with finding mods and determining which ones to use. Which is real personal based on taste and maybe a mod management program would help you? I recommend Jonesoft Generic Mod Enabler. Oh, and a repository upgrade might sure help in mod search frustrations. I only use GaJ site. I also think the majority of scenario authors never produce special mods to go with their scenarios. I have often done a special mod to go with a scenario. If my procedure is lacking then that is on me and not the modtag system.

 

Don't throw the baby out with the bath water. The game ships with no mods in the z folder but the modtag system is in use beyond the z folder tagging and your subfolder system proposal would not seem to solve things such as snow or mud or location and some specific units or types of units. Scenario writing is hard enough as well as campaign writing and more work to go and scrape up the proper versions for the scenario rather than the modtag automatic system doing it. 

 

I am glad we have the modtag system. It does what I want just by the scenario author importing a modtag text file. I can even edit that scenario and add to the modtags text line to call up my own special mods. No special subfolder. And for those folks who enjoy a QB... mod tags allow the proper stuff to be there without a special subfolder.

 

I just remembered someone already tried your system with a huge mod pack download subfolder to allow his scenario/campaign to have its own special music, special tanks, etc. dragonwyn maybe? "In the fields where the poppies lie"...

Maybe run a poll and see what number of folks would go with that approach versus what we have now.

This should be a separate thread if it is indeed a passionate issue with you. Take care!

Edited June 17, 2015 by kohlenklau

[CarlWAW]

Born from your understandable frustrations with finding mods and determining which ones to use.

You seem to be quick with personal judgements. Where did I write about problems finding mods? Have you never read this or any other forum? Even PBEM is already too complicated for many customers. My point of view is taking the DAUs into account.

Which is real personal based on taste

And I thought I mentioned several facts?

 

and maybe a mod management program would help you? I recommend Jonesoft Generic Mod Enabler. Oh, and a repository upgrade might sure help in mod search frustrations. I only use GaJ site. I also think the majority of scenario authors never produce special mods to go with their scenarios. I have often done a special mod to go with a scenario. If my procedure is lacking then that is on me and not the modtag system.

Is it beyond your imagination that someone can think outside the fanboy-box. Because the current system is good enough for you, doesn't make it any more accessible for the average customer.

 

Don't throw the baby out with the bath water.

I raised several arguments why I think the current implementation sucks - btw which arguments did you reply to when you are talking about throwing the baby out with the water?

 

The game ships with no mods in the z folder but the modtag system is in use beyond the z folder tagging and your subfolder system proposal would not seem to solve things such as snow or mud or location and some specific units or types of units. Scenario writing is hard enough as well as campaign writing and more work to go and scrape up the proper versions for the scenario rather than the modtag automatic system doing it.

For many customers even installing mods in a special folder is already too difficult.

I also often cannot understand the reflexes on this forum: instead to think about the additional possibilities and optionalities, the mindset of fanbois is strictly binary.

Transparency is one of the main design principles of user friendly software. If something is not transparent, it is rejected by customers.

And searching for mods that fit to a scenario and installing them separately is such a case.

 

I am glad we have the modtag system. It does what I want just by the scenario author importing a modtag text file. I can even edit that scenario and add to the modtags text line to call up my own special mods. No special subfolder.

But this doesn't make the problem go away: the average customer will never see your mods currently, although he has played scenarios from you.

 

And for those folks who enjoy a QB... mod tags allow the proper stuff to be there without a special subfolder.

How many CM customers even have heard about mod-tags? How many of them can install mods? How many know, how the tag system works?

 

I just remembered someone already tried your system with a huge mod pack download subfolder to allow his scenario/campaign to have its own special music, special tanks, etc. dragonwyn maybe? "In the fields where the poppies lie"...

Maybe run a poll and see what number of folks would go with that approach versus what we have now.

How could this system have been tried, if the game doesn't check if a subfolder exists?

And Kohlenklau, if the current system was such a big success, how high is the percentage of scenarios with dedicated mods?

I guess even 10% is way to high!

Now lets take into account how many are downloading and installing the mods. You probably end up in the low single digit percentages... Great system?

Edited June 17, 2015 by CarlWAW

[Holien]

I am a fairly old user of the CM series and mods have passed me by and are a bit complex to find out and explore.

 

I guess if a scenario came with everything bundled then I would use them and benefit...

 

But then I just enjoy the game play a graphics is not so important to me....

 

Just my 2p....

[umlaut]

the mindset of fanbois is strictly binary.

 

 

Oh my God. He used the F-word. I´m outta this discussion!