More Bulge Info! (and a few screenshots...)

[folkie]

carl,

you know some of these guys are trying to help you. I wouldn't go alienating people who are trying to help you, makes a person look bad, you know.

Edited June 17, 2015 by folkie

[ASL Veteran]

if the current system was such a big success, how high is the percentage of scenarios with dedicated mods?

I guess even 10% is way to high!

Now lets take into account how many are downloading and installing the mods. You probably end up in the low single digit percentages... Great system?

  There are very few scenario designers at all, let alone scenario designers who also create mods.  Individuals who want their game to look a certain way through the use of mod tags can have all the scenarios that they play look the way they want to by having the scenario itself, through the use of a text file, look for and use the mod.  Therefore the mod itself doesn't need to be specifically associated with the scenario in order for the mod to be used so the player can have all the King Tigers in every scenario look a certain way if they want to.  Granted, that forces a mod user to either create a text file or use a text file that would presumably be supplied by the one who created the mod and add that text file to the scenario in the editor, but I don't see what the advantage would be to forcing the player to have duplicate art files for every scenario the player wants to use the mod with.  In the case of the text file the player has to tell the scenario to look for the mod art file in a certain location, but if you have scenario sub folders holding mod art then all you are doing is forcing the person to put duplicate art folders in every scenario .. folder.

 

Of course, the scenarios themselves don't have an individual 'folder' to begin with.  They are all just individual files located in the scenario sub folder so I guess you would have to then manually create a scenario specific sub folder and have the game use that subfolder somehow by placing the scenario file and the mod files all in the scenario specific file that is located in the main scenario sub file?  In that case then each scenario would be in it's own scenario specific sub folder within the scenario folder and if you had no mods then the scenario sub folder would just have the scenario file by itself?  Why would people not using mods need the scenario files to be in its own separate sub file though - it would only be necessary for the use of mods so it seems like a lot of unnecessary work by BFC since just having the individual scenario file in the scenario sub folder works just fine as is.  Or maybe you want to have a separate scenario folder in the Z folder where you put all your mods (So the Z folder would have a different sub folder for each scenario) - but of course your mods are all going in the Z folder now anyway so I'm not sure what advantage there would be to having fifty copies of the same mod file in separate scenario folders when you can just have a single mod file in the Z folder that the scenario uses the text file to access.

 

In short, I suppose your suggestion may have some merit, but I fail to see how it would improve on the current system.  You have to tell the scenario to look for the mod somewhere.  The only thing you seem to be suggesting is that the player should keep duplicate copies of mod art for each scenario (or scenario specific art for a single scenario) as opposed to having a single art file that is accessible by any scenario.

[CarlWAW]

@folkie

Did I ask for help? You remember me about a rapist, saying he only showed his love to the woman.

@ASL Veteran

I wrote that the subfolder should contain the mod data, not the scenario or campaign files. That would not be good. The whole gamefile sorting mechanism would no longer work.

The most transparent solution I can think about would be a packed format: the scenario designer packs hid BMPs/BRZs with the scenario-file into one archive, similar to the BRZ-packer, but, ofcourse, a BTT/CAM file would be created.

The difference between the current naked BTT/CAM files and the one containing additional mod data could easily be seen by the larger filesize of the scenario/campaign with the extra visuals.

[folkie]

carl,

no you were just ranting and people tried to explain things to you. you are just putting out a lot of negative energy in my opinion and really beginning to harsh my mellow. have a nice day

[ASL Veteran]

@folkie

Did I ask for help? You remember me about a rapist, saying he only showed his love to the woman.

@ASL Veteran

I wrote that the subfolder should contain the mod data, not the scenario or campaign files. That would not be good. The whole gamefile sorting mechanism would no longer work.

The most transparent solution I can think about would be a packed format: the scenario designer packs hid BMPs/BRZs with the scenario-file into one archive, similar to the BRZ-packer, but, ofcourse, a BTT/CAM file would be created.

The difference between the current naked BTT/CAM files and the one containing additional mod data could easily be seen by the larger filesize of the scenario/campaign with the extra visuals.

Alright, I think I am getting closer to understanding what you are driving at.  When someone creates a scenario they embed the mods to the scenario file at that time in the same manner that a designer might add a briefing picture.  Therefore, instead of having a scenario file that is about 2000 kb you might have a scenario file that is ... what ... 100 MB or something?  While that would certainly make it much simpler for the end user in that they wouldn't need to do anything at all in order to play a certain scenario as a modded scenario the problem with that approach is that the scenarios themselves don't include the art for vehicles and troops from the basic game itself.  You see, the scenario file is not a self contained file that includes all the game art.  If all the game art was self contained in every scenario file then the game itself would be so big that it wouldn't fit on anyone's hard drive.  The scenario file accesses the art from the game when you load the scenario in the same manner it works for all computer games.  The only thing that mod tags do is to tell the scenario file to look for the game art in a different location than where the unmodded game looks for the art files.  Granted, it is now more complicated than it used to be because before mod tags the scenarios would just automatically look for mods in the Z folder instead of from the basic game when the scenario loads up and if something was in the Z folder the scenario would load that art instead.  That created a situation where players would need to swap files in and out of their Z folder if they wanted a different look for a different scenario.  Now with the mod tags a player can have any number of mod art files in the Z folder and the scenario file only looks for the modded art in the Z folder if the mod tag tells the game to look for it.  With the current system a player can have a different look for every scenario he or she plays by simply adding a 1 kb text file.  Creating scenarios with self contained art files is simply not something that is feasible, not only because of the space it would consume on people's hard drives, but also because the game fundamentally doesn't work that way.  No game does.

 

Now that I just typed all that, I'm still not entirely certain I fully understand what you are getting at, but one could argue that the text file that the modder would include already accomplishes what you are explaining above.  The only difference is that the scenario file and the mod files aren't merged into a single BTT file (which is impossible anyway because the game doesn't work that way).  A modder could still zip all of their mod files with a scenario file so you download it all at once, the only difference is that you have to put the mod files in the Z folder and the scenario BTT file in the scenario sub folder.  Presumably the person who did the mod and associated that mod with that scenario will have already included the text file mod tag in the scenario file.

Edited June 17, 2015 by ASL Veteran

[kohlenklau]

If I am a fanboy then maybe Carl is a banboy? Somebody who got banned and is now back with a new profile and new axe. My 1st thought is a guy named I think Volksgrenadier...

.

[sburke]

Oh my God. He used the F-word. I´m outta this discussion!

agreed, it is one thing to have a discussion on differences in perspective.  It is another to have that crap start getting thrown again.  If I am a "fanboy" because I disagree with you, then well... .. I can't say what I want to here without offending forum rules but it is a verb and implies the use of teeth.

 

The argument itself is contradictory.  If sticking all your mods in one folder is too hard, how is having multiple folders gonna be easier?  Self contradictory and rabidly argumentative.  I can get that at DMV, I don't need it here.  And I don't think our community is so inept as apparently Carl does.  Folks have been modding CM games for 16 years.

[Battlefront.com]

@folkie

Did I ask for help? You remember me about a rapist, saying he only showed his love to the woman.

For this and your general tone, you just received a warning. I suggest you show some respect for those who do not agree with your opinion (for that is ALL that it is). If you have to resort to insults and rude behavior to win a debate, you've automatically lost it.

As for your suggestion... we considered this approach before we came up with Tags. For the reasons others have stated, Tags are more flexible, functional, bandwidth friendly, and storage friendly.

Since there is 0.0000000000% chance we're going to adopt the system you are proposing, it's not a really smart thing to keep arguing for something that will never happen. Therefore, I suggest (very strongly) that you drop it.

Steve

[Sublime]

enouugh about the latest clown who joimed fhe forum a week ago and knows better than all of us and also knows how to code betta than bfc sburke you mentioned the 173rd camp. whens it due?

[sburke]

It is due when the designer says it is due. And I am not the designer. . He will serve no campaign before it's time

[CarlWAW]

For this and your general tone, you just received a warning. I suggest you show some respect for those who do not agree with your opinion.

Do you really want to demand from others, to show respect to provocateurs? Where was the respect torwards my suggestions, when the answers were: you need help, we can help you.

Do you really believe, people do not recognize the false friendliness in this forum and how you support mobbing of critical voices? Customers may not know how the mod tags work, but I believe they recognize very quickly what is going on here.

 

If you have to resort to insults and rude behavior to win a debate, you've automatically lost it.

This forum is the proove that you like mobbers. Therefore I find it a bit funny, that you cricize me about being rude or showing no respect to mobbers.

 

As for your suggestion... we considered this approach before we came up with Tags. For the reasons others have stated, Tags are more flexible, functional, bandwidth friendly, and storage friendly.

Interesting, but the most important aspect you seem to have forgotten: user friendliness.

In the past there have been corrections because the initial plan or design didn't work out. The less than stellar success of modded scenarios could also be an encouragement to improve it. But it's definately not a high priority thing, there are many other things that need to be improved.

 

Since there is 0.0000000000% chance we're going to adopt the system you are proposing, it's not a really smart thing to keep arguing for something that will never happen.

Is it really 0.0000000000%? Not 0.0000%? Or maybe even 0%?

[Pete Wenman]

I need some popcorn !

 

P

[Vergeltungswaffe]

Steve digs into the batter's box.  Pitch is on the way.  Swing...oh boy, he got all of that one.  It's outta here!!!!!!

[Glubokii Boy]

The less than stellar success of modded scenarios could also be an encouragement to improve it. 

 

I think this has more to do with a limited number of unit specific mods, personalized veichles  and stuff like that being avaliable rather then the difficulty with the 'tagging system'

Edited June 17, 2015 by RepsolCBR

[CarlWAW]

...the problem with that approach is that the scenarios themselves don't include the art for vehicles and troops from the basic game itself.  You see, the scenario file is not a self contained file that includes all the game art.

ASL Veteran,

although it's moot because the current system is purrrfect and has 0.0000000000% chance to be changed, I want to clarify to you that my suggestion should be understood like an optional very last mod folder (higher priority of the mods in the z-folder).

[CarlWAW]

I think this has more to do with a limited number of unit specific mods, personalized veichles  and stuff like that being avaliable rather then the difficulty with the 'tagging system'

Probably true, but I am afraid, if it would be overcome, the current tagging system couldn't even use it to it's full extent anyway. The suggested solution would make it a breeze to include i.e. a certain unit portray for a certain unit, or give a certain vehicle or building in the scenario unique paintings, while this possibility would create total chaos with the current tagging system. Edited June 17, 2015 by CarlWAW

[kohlenklau]

[folkie]

 

 

 that my suggestion should be understood like an optional very last mod folder (higher priority of the mods in the z-folder). 

i think if you put more zz's in front of the file it will load after the single z's. there problem solved

[kohlenklau]

I have a Hungarian mod in progress. Every bmp I think I should modify to look Hungarian I just tag with [Hungary].

I put them all in a folder in my z folder named Hungarian mods. Then I created a text file with the word hungary in it and named it hungary.txt

Now I just make any scenario I wanted with my Hungarian mods and import that modtag file into each scenario in the editor.

And if I ever release the mods, then others can have the text file and dump the mod folder into z and tag the scenarios as they wish. 

And if someone wants umlaut's factory mod in there, they just have to do a new modtag text file and go into the editor.

And it is nice to do this quickly by text file import or delete to see if things work or look nice or do not and you delete the text file tag. Versus copying more mods into another subfolder. 

Total chaos? Vo?

 

Please go and make another thread and you can tell your idea and not bog down this Bulge Concert Tickets sleep in line all night to get them in the morning party....zzzzzzzzzz

Edited June 17, 2015 by kohlenklau

[kohlenklau]

My first vehicle mod was "Daisy" a snow camo US half-track. I modtagged it [snow] and dumped it into my z folder.

Forgot all about it for a year until I played a CMFI snow battle and there she was courtesy of the modtag silent sentinel system. 24/7 watching your z folder.

I bet the Bulge game will ship with [snow] modtagged vehicle bmp files. 

The modtag silent sentinel system IS transparent.

Scenario has mud? Bang! Muddy vehicles.

Scenario is eastern europe? Bang! appropriate house architecture and signs in Polish.

Many examples for the brand new player who knows nothing to very little about mods and such.

Wow. Like I was years ago! But according to you, I needed the crutch of someone to tell me what mods to use.

Maybe we stupid players can't be trusted with the mod tagging and it must come ONLY from BFC official scenario authors....

A brand new player to CMFI, 67 years old called me at home and I walked him through how to do this stuff over the phone in an hour.

 

ENDE!

[MikeyD]

 

any news for release date?

The phrase "When its done" isn't us being snarky. The last few titles I've seen the game get released as soon as the final piece of art is placed into their hands, or the final scenario gets completed. BFC doesn't exactly sit on their finished titles doing paperwork for a few weeks before releasing. You quite literally DO get it 'when its done'. 

[Thewood1]

I think he was actually asking if there is an estimate on when its done.

[sburke]

Hey Kohlenklau,

 

Taylor Swift told me she is unfriending you for posting Katy perry videos.  You've been tagged. 

[kohlenklau]

I am so sorry Taylor! The only reason I knew that song was because it was in that "Interview" movie...  

[Mord]

Steiner has to be the most tenacious troll we've ever had. This makes it number five.

 

 

Mord.

Edited June 18, 2015 by Mord