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Demos save you dollars, time


Zels77
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After spending countless hours playing CMBO and CMBB it turned out that the best part about CMBN was uninstalling it, which I did early last year.

In a fit of blind optimism I downloaded the CMFI demo this week to see whether any of the many fundamental flaws had been addressed.

It's still laughable how vulnerable unbuttoned tank commanders are to small arms fire from 100s of metres away.

The Madden series will never come close to realising its potential because EA Sports are quite content selling gallons of "snake oil" to 12 year olds who don't know any better - Red Thunder will be a glorified "roster update" with 95% of resources wasted on visual appeal.

Thanks for the demo chaps, you saved me the cash and time I would have wasted on Fortress Italy, Gustav Line and Red Thunder.

(cue the BF Denial Drones!)

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join date june 2011 CMBN release

yeah one suspects there is an issue there about not liking to lose.

signed- Denial Drone sburke who is going on 3 years now of playing one of the best wargames ever...

I say one of because BF keeps cranking em out and now I can't decide which one I like best :(

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Denial Drone c3k, present.

Despite the inflammatory nature of Zels77's post, he has a point: the demo saves money. Anyone who is on the fence should give it a shot.

Addressing his commentary, it seems that losing Tank Commanders was the one issue which sent him fleeing. I'm willing to be the purchase of a complete CMBN kit (base, v2 upgrade, Commonwealth, and Market Garden) that he was trying to play as Wittmann and ragequit when he kept getting killed. (Or any other imagined German tank ace.)

I wonder if he remembers what happened to the real one?

Regardless, this is a great advertisement for the demo. Curious; tried it; didn't like it; never spent a dime.

Ken Drone out.

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Hmmnn, well "Zels...", at least you found SOMETHING good about BF :). Otherwise, they'd be as bad as EA I suppose, would they?

As someone who is quickly approaching official "Old Fart" status, I can tell you from experience that you're in for more and more disappointment as time goes on. NOTHING in this world is perfect (don't I wish!). Oddly enough, that would include BF. The thing is, you learn to find what works the best given the circumstances. I played Advanced Squad Leader (maybe before your time - Google it as it might be rather enlightening to see what we had to do prior to computers and BF) for many years and it was really, really good. For it's time. But it can't hold a candle to BF's offerings. Why? It was more "fully featured" after all (more weapons, more nationalities, etc.). But, you could see every single counter on the board(s). The game required a degree of imagination that bordered on the insane in order to pull off most games, and that was H2H. We won't even talk about solitary play! Now "all" BF has managed to do, is take a goodly portion of what ASL gave us, and put it on a format that enables one to march their units across a "map" (that is far more realistic looking than any board artwork), and merrily walk into a waiting ambush that you had no idea was coming. That's H2H OR vs. the AI! I wonder if you know how much coding it takes to make even one of these collections of electron (called "Squads" in the BF world) do anything at all, never mind something even remotely realistic? I suspect not. It's mind boggling, and I learned Fortran in high school (yes, we had just only graduated from painting on rocks - it was quite an advancement!). What these guys do is pretty dramatic stuff.

Now no doubt those of us who are left will look back on CMx2 and wonder how in the world we ever played these games, when we... err, "they" are running on Windows 15.3v4 and the squads are true 3D on a holographic screen, but for now we're stuck with the technology we have. And frankly, it ain't bad. Even better, we have guys like BF pushing the envelope constantly. They aren't sitting on their laurels the way some developers do (and you did mention one). Better still, when they break new ground, the push as much as they can of that back on the previous games, which keeps them new and fresh (and fun, and more than worth the $$$ they cost!).

As much as how well the games are developed, it is the developer's treatment of its customers that is a key component for me. I partake of another hobby where daily I am blown away about how most developers still have any customers at all. Their treatment of their "bread and butter" ranges from completely ignoring any posts on their forums to that of out and out contempt; and yet they still sell products. Now THOSE are fanboys!! This cannot be said of BF. Believe me, before buying any of the CMx1 games, I watched the forums for a while (and still do), and BF treats everyone with a high degree of respect and always comes up with an answer (or at least a reason if there is no answer) to any queries. The very, very odd time they have to deal with a rude post(er), it's always done (again) with respect. They have more tolerance than I do, believe me. That says a lot about the quality of the people behind this brand, and it also speaks highly of the people that inhabit these boards. Had you posted your message above at the aforementioned forums for the unmentioned hobby, the abuse you would have taken would have been truly monumental, and without any mercy whatsoever, and your message would have been more accurate for that crowd than this one by a country mile. The folks here would seem to be well above that, for which I am grateful.

Anyway, I guess this is getting a bit long, but before you go, perhaps you'd care to share with us what games you DO find "worthy"? I won't switch from BF because I AM a "fanboy", but with good reasons (all mentioned above). I'm sure we here are all interested in something that does work well, and especially if it works better than CM does. That would be a very tall order indeed; but even if you do have a candidate, BF won't be losing any customers to it. We will simply be widening our scope of "worthy" developers.

Thank you for reading (assuming you did :)).

PS - forgot to mention - I'll be ordering Red Thunder the second it hits the shelves, and I regularly get beat by the AI (even AI that I build - now THAT hurts :(!!!) :). FYI. Guess I really am a fanboy!

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The gulf between what people want and the way is should be can get pretty big sometimes. Not wanting your TC shot when he's standing there within rifle range of a full infantry squad is one of those things. The game tracks individual bullet trajectories in realtime. If one bullet happens to intersect with a tank commander... well... c'est la guerre.

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I don't like broccoli, I don't like cabbage, I don't look for www.broccoli. com to post I don't like broccoli in their forum so why should I take my beloved time to post it anywhere,...um...erm,...yes , I know, I am posting about broccoli anyway,...damn..., Thanks god I tasted broccoli demos when I was a kid.

XD

Frustration at younger ages is harder, and more these days (Queen´s "I want it all" in the background...).

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Why do people bother to post tripe like this? Especially when the poster knows that nobody here is going to agree with his rantings? Well, except the part about providing demos so people can see for themselves if they want to buys something before they do. For those expecting magic force fields around their tank commanders, obviously the demo does come up up a bit short.

I also shake my head in sad wonder as to how someone doesn't understand that games are made for people to enjoy. And if someone enjoys it then they are, by definition, a "fan boy". Just like someone who likes football watches football, someone who likes wine enjoys wine, etc. So what's the big deal when someone who like something says they like it? Oh wait... I know... because when someone thinks the world revolves around them, and they don't like X, that means nobody should like X. I'm always forgetting that posters like this tell us more about their personal failings than they do ours.

Steve

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I dunno why you waste your energy even responding, Steve. (It makes it sound like the twerp got to you in some way. Best is to just ignore.)

I agree Erwin. I posted in the new forum requesting a beta tester to do a small showcase on the functionality of the new TRIGGER idea. 100 plus views but no response by any one. Yet a post like this gets multiple hits and responses even one from the big dog. Come on guys. I get as sick of these nonsense posts as anyone so how about ignoring them in the future as there is no need to defend the game on these issues. We all know it is one if not the best one out there so why waste your energy addressing. Oh, and please someone at least tell me that they really do not have the time to showcase the new trigger function so I do not keep checking my post for an answer. Thanks ahead of time.

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Eh... sometimes I respond, sometimes I don't. Depends on my mood. There is some value in reminding people that posting junk like this isn't going to get them anywhere. And no, these kinds of posts never get to me. I can promise you that there's no way I could be doing this for 15 years if one person with a bad attitude and a non-sensical post could get under my skin.

Triggers have already been discussed in some detail, including a thread that I was involved in. Here it is:

http://www.battlefront.com/community/showthread.php?t=113359

Steve

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What I find interesting is people who drop these types of "negativity Bombs" as I refer to them, never come back into the thread to defend their extreme comments against folks who come along later.

They have a purpose in mind.....to piss off as many people as they can, and then they probably sit back and chuckle as people react to their comment. They are not true believers, but just petty trouble makers.

One of the sadder realities of the internet.....any dope can say whatever they want, with totally anonimity, and without regard for the interests or feelings of other human beings.

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I recall the folks a decade ago who practically swore vengeance on BFC for daring to move from CMBO to the eastern front. Imagine, nobody speaks English in the game! Gasp! People nowadays think of CMBB as one of the greats, back then some folks were refusing to buy it 'on principle'. Though I'm not entirely sure what that principle was supposed to be.

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I THINK IT IS EASY TO UNDERSTAND POST LIKE THIS.

From the time we were little children we found we could get many things given to us if you just cry or scream.

So for many of us, when we get to the age of Adults, Our method change some, but the purpose to say things along the line of this post is that so doing they think they can irritate someone to a point where they are going to get them to make changes and grant their wish.

How many of us have not at some time not complained about some aspect of the game, wanting in the back of our minds that by some magic means that complaint alone was going to get BF to make some changes.

Be careful before you say you never would, because it is so easy to look at all our old post. :)

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  • 2 weeks later...

Great reply Glenn!

Points well made and taken on board. I grew up playing SL and then ASL, and I was STOKED when I discovered Battlefront, and blown away by CMBO and CMBB.

I'm not denying any of your valid points about how much work goes into making what is, by default, the ONLY game that makes a credible stab at being a strategy wargame (that isn't on a one-hex-equals-one-galaxy scale).

And it's for exactly this reason that I hold CM to THAT standard.

Tank commander vulnerability is one of several major issues with the game that alter its fundamental purpose - conducting a battle along historical lines.

My guess is that a good chunk of the blokes on this forum would be thrilled with having Zombie-driven T34's firing lazer-guided muffins at Jabba the Hut. I'm after a simulation of WWII infantry combat as it actually happened.

So when an LMG hiding 400m from unbuttoned tank can hit the commander with a snap shot (frequently), I lose interest.

I don't expect everything to be perfect, but I do expect the desire for real-world physics and historical accuracy to trump the quest for superior graphics, and flamethrowers.

Thanks again for your reply and happy hunting!

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Great reply Glenn!

Points well made and taken on board. I grew up playing SL and then ASL, and I was STOKED when I discovered Battlefront, and blown away by CMBO and CMBB.

I'm not denying any of your valid points about how much work goes into making what is, by default, the ONLY game that makes a credible stab at being a strategy wargame (that isn't on a one-hex-equals-one-galaxy scale).

And it's for exactly this reason that I hold CM to THAT standard.

Tank commander vulnerability is one of several major issues with the game that alter its fundamental purpose - conducting a battle along historical lines.

My guess is that a good chunk of the blokes on this forum would be thrilled with having Zombie-driven T34's firing lazer-guided muffins at Jabba the Hut. I'm after a simulation of WWII infantry combat as it actually happened.

So when an LMG hiding 400m from unbuttoned tank can hit the commander with a snap shot (frequently), I lose interest.

I don't expect everything to be perfect, but I do expect the desire for real-world physics and historical accuracy to trump the quest for superior graphics, and flamethrowers.

That's nice, now run along.

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I am gonna write Steve a scathing letter that he needs to make games that include my friends because they will like it and in turn like me more because Steve will also let me be a beta tester. I will point out that all 6.5 billion humans will like it and he can afford to give me a billion dollar a year salary because it was me that suggested he make the perfect game. I think maybe it will be called CM:PG (Combat Mission: Perfect Game) and it will be version 1.0 and never need a patch. I have also decided we port it to Google Watches and have auto play while you are asleep.

You may all thank me in advance because I am just such an amazingly awesome guy. In case you don't get a welcome in person, you are most welcome to take what I just said as a your welcome. I only do this because how awesome I am.

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What I find interesting is people who drop these types of "negativity Bombs" as I refer to them, never come back into the thread to defend their extreme comments against folks who come along later.

They have a purpose in mind.....to piss off as many people as they can, and then they probably sit back and chuckle as people react to their comment. They are not true believers, but just petty trouble makers.

One of the sadder realities of the internet.....any dope can say whatever they want, with totally anonimity, and without regard for the interests or feelings of other human beings.

That's what this is: pure TROLLBAIT.

He let off a stinkbomb and then sat back to watch the reaction. When responses dried-up, he popped back in to let off another.

It's pathetic, but I guess it amuses him on some level.

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Looking back to the year 2000.

I was working as beta tester for a french games developer, wich bankrupted some years later after they expend all the investors money they got without publishing any game worth playing...

I found the demo of combat mission in the internet, and played the battle of "chance encounter" almost everyday for weeks on in the midday break, nobody else in the company did it and some of the devs who had a look at my screen just smiled and left without comment.

Fourteen years later here I am, playing with the games battlefront creates and still having fun, I think I have buy all they titles and looking forward to buy the next...

I never ever got so much in return of my money, and besides improved my english reading the posts of so many people wich contribute with their wisdom and sense of humour to this forum...

And the "cerise sur le gateau" (cherry over the cake?) the former poster and personal enemy of mine Slapdragon is nowhere in sight since at least two years. He made me crazy, defending the war in Irak and boastin about the inherent supremacy of the USA, I think we went so far in our discussions that the policy about politics in the BF forum had to be implemented.

To resume it, If you dont want your tank commander being killed button your tanks, and if you find a better game, plase let us know.

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