CM 2.0 Ripoff - wrong payment strategy

[Mord]

"Except in Malta"...LMAO!

Mord.

[Placebo]

A great game deserves support and on-going development (however i do hope the patch price is closer to MikeyD $5 than Schrullenhaft's $40 guesstimates)

[Collingwood]

Wow. Scientists, engineers, designers, visionaries - all worked for decades to bring us computers and the internet, so that we can have a whine about a few bucks for added features to a game.

Which reminds me, this broadband internet is a ripoff. I paid good money for my 14.4K baud compuserve connection in 1994, I should have life-long internet upgrades for now on. This is now how to build a community! Good luck, internet.

[para]

Wow. Scientists, engineers, designers, visionaries - all worked for decades to bring us computers and the internet, so that we can have a whine about a few bucks for added features to a game.

Which reminds me, this broadband internet is a ripoff. I paid good money for my 14.4K baud compuserve connection in 1994, I should have life-long internet upgrades for now on. This is now how to build a community! Good luck, internet.

Ha Ha Ha very good

[Mord]

Yeah, that was good.

Mord.

[c3k]

It seems there is a misunderstanding between a PATCH and an UPGRADE.

Patches, as I understand it, will be FREE. However, patches will not be produced in perpetuity. Once BF.C determines that the biggest bugs are squashed and that most concerns are addressed and that a NEW game/engine is available for the same combat simulation time/space, then the patches will come to an end for that game. (As I understand it.) So, your CMBN will always work. It just won't keep getting better and better.

Ken

[Lt Belenko]

Let us see what the options are:

Get a job to buy the upgrade and STFU.

Collect cans and bottles for recycling and use the money to buy the upgrade and STFU.

Drink less beer and use the money saved to buy the upgrade and STFU.

Smoke less cigarettes and use the money to buy the upgrade and STFU.

Skip a meal a week for a month, use the money to buy the upgrade and STFU.

Don't get the upgrade and STFU.

But if there are delays between preorders and release I doubt I'll be STFU.

[Redwolf]

It seems there is a misunderstanding between a PATCH and an UPGRADE.

Patches, as I understand it, will be FREE. However, patches will not be produced in perpetuity. Once BF.C determines that the biggest bugs are squashed and that most concerns are addressed and that a NEW game/engine is available for the same combat simulation time/space, then the patches will come to an end for that game. (As I understand it.) So, your CMBN will always work. It just won't keep getting better and better.

Ken

Contrary to how people spin what I said this is what I said is the way to go. Selling new stuff for old games is the value added sale that I explicitly mentioned.

There are some details here, though, that make the line a bit fuzzy and might irritate customers:

• Does the upgrade come, in addition to new code, with new stuff? I don't think that adding vehicles and units to existing games and modules fits the current CMx2 model. The CMx2 model is that there is a very narrow range of available vehicles and units. The upgrade as done under this scheme will only add vehicles and units to older releases if the vehicle in question was omitted from the original release for time reasons but was present. This narrows down things quite a bit
  
• Does the code upgrade also fix technical bugs, such as incompatibilities with certain OS and driver releases? Charging for these can irritate customers.
  
• Does the upgrade change the licensing scheme? This is a no-no, too.
  

A solution in line with a true "value-added" model would be to offer two version of the patch, one that is bugfixes (for free) and one that also has new stuff (for money) but of course that is out for QA reasons.

Another problem is that customers who would be happy to spend more cannot. This is not as absurd as it sounds, a lot of games are now going with shops for in-game items where different customers spend different amounts of money, all very voluntarily without strongarming or holding things hostage. This, again, will be difficult for BFC to do for many reasons. But it is how many game companies will survive in the future, or already do. It's the same thing that airlines are doing now.

[Darknight (DC)]

However, patches will not be produced in perpetuity. Once BF.C determines that the biggest bugs are squashed and that most concerns are addressed and that a NEW game/engine is available for the same combat simulation time/space, then the patches will come to an end for that game. (As I understand it.) So, your CMBN will always work. It just won't keep getting better and better.

Yes it will, as BFC stated they could be producing mini content packs (could be a vehicle or two, could be a campaign, could be anything). I'd say this could qualify as making CMBN better and better.

[TrailApe]

Drink less beer and use the money saved to buy the upgrade and STFU

:eek:

Heresy! HERESY!

Stone Him, Stone Him!

[TheBlackHand]

Superfly71, you must not be much of a fan of the CM series to begin with. If you were, you would've realized that this is a small company, which puts out a great product. I easily get fifty bucks worth of enjoyment out of the many hours that I put into each version of Combat Mission, from CM1 all the way up to that latest release. I see where you're coming from, but I think you're looking at it the wrong way. I consider my fifty bucks to be a donation to keeping one of my favorite pastimes alive and kicking.

It's well worth twice that much in my mind. No, it isn't perfect and there are times when I quit playing until this or that is fixed . . . but it usually is & even if it isn't I eventually come back around for many, many more hours of gameplay.

Somebody pointed out how much they pay for television. I pay about $100 a month for my Sat Service . . . which plays in the background while I'm playing CM, for which I might pay fifty to a hundred bucks A YEAR (if we're lucky, I'd love to have even more major releases, or "patches", as you call them).

If I didn't think I was getting my money's worth, I wouldn't pay, but I do, so I do.

For example, I used to pay a lot of money to play Battleground Europe (ever since it was WW2OL). I let that subscription slide just a few months ago since that game began to really fall apart. I'm not going to pay for something that doesn't work. CM works, and works very well. I hope my money makes it work even better in the future, and I'm sure it will.

[Mord]

I think Superfly should turn down all his pay checks from here on out...after all he's been payed once, at least. Why should his employers pay him for the same work week after week?

Mord.

[shocker28]

Listen i like the game but I get where the OP is coming from as far as the multi player. And what kinda irks me is how every time its brought up, our thoughts our merely swept aside like rubbish. I get that you feel the majority of your players don't care but honestly feel that you are wrong.

First of all besides maintaining a server once implemented the lobby wouldn't need constant tweaking. Hell I'm not even asking for you to host our games on your servers. Just an area where people can meet to exchange ips, i cant see how you couldn't handle such a small amount of people on an already existing server.

You guys got it right by finally making the game pausable during real time play. I don't under stand why your so against having such minor online features in the game. I also feel this keeps new players away because like me they want live opponents. You want me to pay i am and i will pay for multiplayer.

Maybe im just hard headed but i dont understand why you guys refuse to add some kind of feature in game to make it easier to find opponents. I mean look at green as jades head2head helper why cant you ad that into the game some how or something rather then nothing.

Now a couple off topic questions. Im confussd is market garden coming out or just fortress italy? If i buy fortress italy will i have to pay to upgrade cm bn cw or will it become cm bn cw fi?

I didnt see it anywhere but will there be a replay file available for realtime games?

[Stagler]

Still, any CM title has a long way to go. Thats why im not buying anything until Shock Force 2. Hopefully they can make a better game.

I cant even go online and play a game in a lobby. Nor can my troops assault a building without missing the guy hiding cowering in the corner who proceeds to shoot them all in the back.

As for value for my £50 I paid for CMA, I like it but its not worth that much. I have had more enjoyment out of shock force but the modules were far too expensive for what they provided.

I picked up Wargame EE for £25. I picked up ARMA 2 and ARMA CO for £30, with a better editor mind and mod capability, and each ARMA Module for £5.

What BF has is not a good business model, but for the handful of hardcore fanboys we have on this forum. Dont get me wrong, I enjoy CM at times. But at times I just think, what did I pay this money for.

I love modding, as some of you may have seen my many ARMA 2 mods and missions, and CM does have a mission editor that is quite intiuative to use. But it lacks proper mod support, or any form of proper AI that can be used in custom missions.

Im sorry guys but its Wargame EE, DCS, and ARMA 2 for me thank you until BF comes out with a superior product.

[sburke]

What BF has is not a good business model, but for the handful of hardcore fanboys we have on this forum.

Yeah!! I was waiting for that one and was feeling sorely left out. Thank you for the recognition. First on behalf of all the fanboys I'd like to thank god and my mum for all the love they have shown me. Of course I have to send a special thank you to BF without whom I would never have thought to become a fanboy. thanks Guys!

Really I thank you all and appreciate the shout out. I dedicate my efforts hence forth to becoming even more immersed in this failure of a game with it's poor business model which still by some fluke manages to beat the odds and stay successfully in business.

Now back to Billy Crystal.

[undercovergeek]

out of curiousity, because im sure you researched the product before you bought it - if you knew there wasnt a lobby, if you knew there wasnt an editor youd be happy with, if youd read the problems with assaulting, if you knew all this and you knew that it was going to **** you off so much why did you buy the game?

and if you didnt know all those things, and you knew you wanted all those things you should have checked - nowhere, ANYWHERE, on this site have BF promised the things youre looking for, so whos fault is it youre disappointed theyre not here?

you bought the wrong game for you and its Battlefronts fault??

[shocker28]

Thats the type of mentality I'm talking about. I enjoy the game, I knew what I was buying. When I bought the game it said real time tcp ip gaming but said nothing of not having a pause button.

And I guess enough people cried about it that they fixed it... even though it should have been there in the first place.

I guess its there fix to both real time and wego live is their pause button.

But it doesnt change the fact how ignorrant you really are... or your just trolling. Either way anyone who says that having an in game lobby for multi player match ups is lying.

Its not about buyers remorse its about having a great game that actually has a community and developers who continue working on their product. Why wouldnt you want to continue to make it better is what frustrates me

I come from the sudden strike series which fireglow completely abandoned SS3. But I never knew about CM until somewhat recently and I absolutely do love it. I just dont understand why you people are so hard headed and dont basically give a **** about others opinions.

Dont worry ill just go dismiss myself

[Darknight (DC)]

There's valid opinions on both sides of (almost) any argument but go re-read the OP....it was not a statement of opinion for discussion....the tone of the OP set the tone for any of the responses that you're objecting to....the OP was not looking for meaningful discussion.

The trolling happened with the OP, not the responses.

[Mord]

I just dont understand why you people are so hard headed and dont basically give a **** about others opinions.

LOL man, it's a game forum, people argue...

You think it's the most important issue in the world, others don't. I don't care if they ever put it the game...I probably wouldn't use it if they did. But it's important to you. I get it, it's something you want and feel strongly about. There's a ton of stuff I want and feel strongly about. Not everybody agrees on what is needed most. I don't think anyone was being overly harsh. There's hundreds of discussions that go on here and many opinions, not everyone is gonna agree with you...that's gaming forums, that's life.

Mord.

[sburke]

Either way anyone who says that having an in game lobby for multi player match ups is lying.

Seems to be something missing there. I think I understand the intent, but it is better to be really clear and not allow people to assume your intent.

Its not about buyers remorse its about having a great game that actually has a community and developers who continue working on their product. Why wouldnt you want to continue to make it better is what frustrates me

I come from the sudden strike series which fireglow completely abandoned SS3. But I never knew about CM until somewhat recently and I absolutely do love it. I just dont understand why you people are so hard headed and dont basically give a **** about others opinions.

Dont worry ill just go dismiss myself

Nah don't do that. Yeah it is a fractious opiniated place, but don't let that deter you. On the other hand I would play close attention to BF's statements. Those are the ones that truly count about what they feel they are capable of doing and how they prioritize. They might even agree with you, but feel the scope is currently out of reach. That is simply a message to be patient. As BF solidifies the engine, then the programmers can figure out what other items they feel they can take on without stretching themselves too thin. If they feel the effort is worth the return and within their capability, knowing there are folks who do desire this is worth continuing to participate in the discussion.

It is also possible that feature set would be available on a different platform with a slightly different audience (I am referring to the Touch version here).

[womble]

I just dont understand why you people are so hard headed and dont basically give a **** about others opinions.

Go have a look in the several "Wish list" threads. Count how many requests there are for additional MP features. Quite a lot fewer than there are requests for ooo, I dunno, flame weapons, addtional inventory options, interface improvements, moveable waypoints (now in!). The reason it gets dismissed is because not many people seem to want it. Perhaps that's not so, but you "lobbyists" need to:

• make your views known.
  
• recognise that BFC are pretty well aware of the issues involved in setting up and running a lobby system; if it were as easy as trolling this forum, I believe it would already have been established. But BFC have said they've looked at it, that it's not easy, that there's no funding model to support the ongoing costs of such a thing and that there are very many things ahead of a lobby in their list of things to do.
  
• recognise that even if you have 10 genuine game owners a day posting that they want a lobby, BFC will still set their business and development goals according to what they perceive to be the best course for the game.
  

[Rocky Balboa]

Thats the type of mentality I'm talking about. I enjoy the game, I knew what I was buying. When I bought the game it said real time tcp ip gaming but said nothing of not having a pause button.

And I guess enough people cried about it that they fixed it... even though it should have been there in the first place.

I guess its there fix to both real time and wego live is their pause button.

But it doesnt change the fact how ignorrant you really are... or your just trolling. Either way anyone who says that having an in game lobby for multi player match ups is lying.

Its not about buyers remorse its about having a great game that actually has a community and developers who continue working on their product. Why wouldnt you want to continue to make it better is what frustrates me

I come from the sudden strike series which fireglow completely abandoned SS3. But I never knew about CM until somewhat recently and I absolutely do love it. I just dont understand why you people are so hard headed and dont basically give a **** about others opinions.

Dont worry ill just go dismiss myself

Dude, just take a deep breath and actually listen to what you are saying ...

Its not about buyers remorse its about having a great game that actually has a community and developers who continue working on their product. Why wouldnt you want to continue to make it better is what frustrates me

That's exactly what BF is doing they are making the game better ... they are adding features (like pausable online RT play among others). Are they just not adding features fast enough for you?

Earlier you said this:

Hell I'm not even asking for you to host our games on your servers. Just an area where people can meet to exchange ips, i cant see how you couldn't handle such a small amount of people on an already existing server.

If this is all you want then you have that now. There are several clubs out there that have thier own websites that will let you setup MP match ups. All you have to do is register and post. We have a steam group that has 145 members that you can join and hook up with other CM fans. If you post politely on this forum looking for a match I'm sure you will get several responses. If all you want is a place to exchange IP's then you have that today.

I really don't see your problem, everything you are railing against is currently available and BF is supporting their product ... So what is it really thats bothering you or are you just wanting to troll and argue?

[Mord]

They might even agree with you, but feel the scope is currently out of reach. That is simply a message to be patient.

That's good advice...

Sburke is more than right...there have been quite a few things they said we wouldn't get that ended up happening, so...you never know.

Mord.

[Vanir Ausf B]

I can understand not buying the game because it lacks a certain feature you personally feel is important. I did the same when I declined to buy CMSF because it doesn't have a proper QB system. What I don't understand is when people say it costs too much. If the game is good you can easily get several hundred hours out of any CM game. On a cost per hour basis it's way cheaper than getting drunk.

[shocker28]

We have a steam group that has 145 members

I'm in it and I have found one guy I play with regularly and it gets a bit tedious having to go through 145 people just trying to find a game.

What bothers me is the AI is horrid boring and predictable and I would like real time players. Not I'm 65 years old and need to put on my bi focal's to see the keyboard PBEM.

I cant stand watching my units move 1 minute at a time and then not being able to correct their movements on the fly when they are doing something stupid.

I dont know its just annoying because I'm not a big rts base building guy cause im not a twitcher and never can keep up, sudden strike was good but a lil too unrealistic when it came to actual stats and armor ratings etc.

Maybe im just a whiney little brat. I just find it hard to believe that no one else wants a lobby where you could have live chat etc.

I think i just need to let it go, cause people are just gonna be like oh no we dont need that back to the cellar with you.