Is CMBS worth buying?

[Hannib'al]

Hello everyone! 

 

I've been thinking about buying Black Sea as I love strategy game, and BS being more like a military simulator made buying the thing seem like an obvious choice. But yesterday I encountered something that made me go; "Would I really enjoy this game?" You see, I used to play Shock Force and my main issue with SF, as with BS now, are the controls and the interface, which are not at all user-friendly and despite the work that's been put into making the controls easier to learn, its still too hard. I love Black Sea, I love the concept and I am still thinking about buying it, but I don't think I've ever encountered worse controls in a game other than in Black Sea, not ever. My question is, would it be worth buying Black Sea, KNOWING that I will not enjoy it or it will take too long for me to even start enjoying it, given that I must press 3000000000 buttons just to get to the other side of the map? My second question is, is it possible to drastically improve the controls, using some mods or something like that? 

 

 

Thanks.

[George MC]

Best bet is download the demo and make your own call. The game engine is very different from CMSF. The demo will let you check it out for yourself.

The controls are still fundamentally the same although you can customise the controls via hotkeys. TBH I use mouse and the UI and I don't see the problem myself. And i play massive scenarios with lot's of units.. Guess it's what floats yer boat.

"3000000000 buttons" - Really?

[Chudacabra]

Well, you can just use your mouse to scroll around the map. The controls for units are fairly complex, but not exactly rocket science. The demo scenarios are both great, give those a shot.

[Hannib'al]

I have downloaded the demo and I've played through all the scenarios, and it just seems that the controls are very clunky and rigid, that's the turn-off that this game has, nothing else. 

 

 

@GeorgeMC Oh boy yes, it takes a **** load of clicking and turning and changing angles and everything just to go from one side of the map to the other.

Edited March 24, 2016 by Hannib'al
added in that last bit

[Glubokii Boy]

Honestly...It sounds that you haven't even read the manual...Is it perhaps not included in the demo ?

Move the map...

1... hold down the left mouse button and move the pointer

option

2...Move the pointer to the top, bottom, sides of the map to move it

or

3...Use the W,A,S,D keys on the keyboard

 

change elevation...

1...Mouse scrollwheel

or

2...Number buttons on keyboard

 

rotate the map

1...Move mousepointer to screen corners

2...Use Q and E key

3...Hold down right mousebutton and move mouse

 

I usually use the mouse in combination with the WASD keys to move around...Not difficult at all.

The V-key is also very useful. It will instantly flip the wiew 180 degress.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[A Canadian Cat]

2 hours ago, Hannib'al said:

 My question is, would it be worth buying Black Sea, KNOWING that I will not enjoy it or it will take too long for me to even start enjoying it, given that I must press 3000000000 buttons just to get to the other side of the map?

I think you just answered your own question. I have no idea how a user could make things so hard on themselves as you describe. 

 

2 hours ago, Hannib'al said:

My second question is, is it possible to drastically improve the controls, using some mods or something like that? 

Mods cannot make major changes to the way the UI works. Just reskin things.

[Hannib'al]

I think what Repso said might actually be the reason I am finding the controls so hard to master, because the demo doesn't contain the manual. I'll look into the manual first.

 

 

Yeah, but are there mods that make the game slightly easier to play? Not necessarily simpler, just better to handle.

[AttorneyAtWar]

Just now, Hannib'al said:

I think what Repso said might actually be the reason I am finding the controls so hard to master, because the demo doesn't contain the manual. I'll look into the manual first.

 

 

Yeah, but are there mods that make the game slightly easier to play? Not necessarily simpler, just better to handle.

You can check the options menu for different camera control types like RTS, FPS, ETC.

There are no mods that change the functionality of the UI or the game, they are mostly aesthetic.

[hattori]

This game does require a certain level of patience and micro management, it is a very niche game, but probably the best one out there for realism.  I would totally recommend trying the demo, but I have a feeling you would prefer something with far less control, like one of those hex based strategy war games -- a lot less management and button clicks (but because you put a lot less into a victory, the reward is so much less sweet).

[kraze]

After you get past controls and learning curve you'll get to an exceptionally detailed strategy game. Plus the slow pace of the game means you can take time using an interface to give out orders...

Controls aren't that bad once you realize all buttons/shortcuts you'd need in 95% cases are movement orders and target/target arc and shift+target arc to set up ambush radius.

For me the amount of tactical control I can have in this game together with all the ballistic/damage modeling as well as systems modelling is fully worth getting past some pesky controls

[Kinophile]

2 hours ago, kraze said:

Plus the slow pace of the game

Someone is playing wayyy too much turn based! Come join the real time dark side....! 

But you're right - there's actually a limited set of constantly reused hockey's and orders. Learn the hot keys (they're at least indicated on the command buttons). 

Play 3 small games,  and you'll know all you need to know to enjoy the proper game. 

Aesthetically I find the UI a bit clunky and I'm working on my own,  second version. But you should definitely become familiar with the original UI before trying alternates. 

The game is superb.

Buy it. 

[Abdolmartin]

IMHO, Black Sea is the best game out there (please don't kill me for using the word "game" though! ) for what it does: simulating tactical combat below and around battalion level. Despite all its drawbacks, it's a very rewarding experience. Nothing beats the feeling of accomplishment when you sneak a Javelin team in and destroy the enemy's precious Tunguska and then call in a deadly airstrike.

[VladimirTarasov]

Combat Mission Black Sea is worth the buy, The modules that will come out for it will make it a very great game IMO.

[ASL Veteran]

If you have a big map and you want to get across it quickly you can always hold the ctrl key down and then right click on the far side of the map and you will be teleported there instantly.

[Ivanov]

I really don't understand what's the problem with the controls and the UI? I don't think they are too hard to learn. I haven't even read the manual. I just watched the training videos and use a little of common sense during the playing.

This is a very realistic and faithful modern warfare simulation, so it can't go below some certain level of complexity. But if you're really into this theme, there's no other game that can beat CM series, period.

What I think may be frustrating to the new players, if the fact that CMBS is much less forgiving than the WW2 titles. You make a slightest mistake and in most of the cases, even an Abrams won't get a second chance. It's a challenge. So if you like challenges and you aren't a quitter, go and get CMBS. 

Edited March 25, 2016 by Ivanov

[MikeyD]

This post reminds me of student drivers who claim the drivers ed car is somehow broken after their first attempt to parallel park. A lot of people play this franchise and the controls are entirely second nature to them. No muss, no fuss. The trick, you see, is learning to play the game. Driving stick shift is no fun if you haven't bothered to learn stick. Swimming is no fun if you've never bothered to learn to swim. Once you've learned how to do it and got a little practice under your belt its a hoot.

[The Steppenwulf]

20 hours ago, MikeyD said:

...Driving stick shift is no fun if you haven't bothered to learn stick. Swimming is no fun if you've never bothered to learn to swim. Once you've learned how to do it and got a little practice under your belt its a hoot.

... except when you get your ass kicked  

[Doc844]

Your doing it wrong.  Turn based play 'tick'  lots of button presses 'tick' comfy seat 'maybe'  glass of whiskey over ice 'sounds like not'  (if your under 18 discount that last one)  seriously though, battles do take hours to complete and I think part of enjoying this game series is enjoying that planning time and the slow game play.  Don't think of it as a race bit a nice leisurely cruise on a boat.

[Blazing 88's]

22 hours ago, ASL Veteran said:

If you have a big map and you want to get across it quickly you can always hold the ctrl key down and then right click on the far side of the map and you will be teleported there instantly.

BINGO!... I was wondering if someone was going to mention this.
However it is ctrl + left click. 

Edited March 25, 2016 by Blazing 88's

[Kinophile]

I personally love the planing. Analysis is my strength and I love figuring out the field,  the task, the solution. Then setting a plan and putting it in motion, and adapting. 

As you said,  it takes time,  which is great. I lovedd turn based as a way to plan and think properly and learn to build complex orders repeatedly, to build familiarity with the technical aspects of this excellent game. 

Now I'm into some serious Real Times,  and I allocate a minimum of half the time of the battle again for planning (eg half hour for 1 hour of game play). I prefer to match it 1:1.

 

[Ivanov]

1 hour ago, kinophile said:

Now I'm into some serious Real Times,  and I allocate a minimum of half the time of the battle again for planning (eg half hour for 1 hour of game play). I prefer to match it 1:1.

 

Just as a matter of interest, is real time mode really doable in CM? Setting your waypoints you have to be exact to a meter. This one meter often decides if you live or die. In the turn based mode, I often check few possible final positions of a unit, with their lines of fire, visibility and so on. I just don't see how you could do that in a hectic real time environment.

[Kinophile]

42 minutes ago, Ivanov said:

Just as a matter of interest, is real time mode really doable in CM? Setting your waypoints you have to be exact to a meter. This one meter often decides if you live or die. In the turn based mode, I often check few possible final positions of a unit, with their lines of fire, visibility and so on. I just don't see how you could do that in a hectic real time environment.

It is. 

The trick is to  "jump focus" from fight to fight. It's important to move away as soon as youve set some form of defence or attack in motion,  fight another fight somewhere else then jump back.

I try to limit it to 3 fights max - anymore and I withdraw/turtle/ignore. If you can keep your mind on 2 out of 3 fights and your opponent is focussed on just 1 then you have a chance. Naturally it's all about fighting the right fight at the right time. 

This jump focus allows me give decently detailed orders (eg MOVE to roof, DEPLOY with ARMOR ARC here, PAUSE 45, QUICK downstairs) then jump away. 

Its all about the hot keys,  as you can imagine. 

Yes you can get sloppy,  but so can the opponent,  as you're both playing the same game. It comes down to nimble fingers and the discipline to break away and not perfect the action. 

Give them a gun, point them towards the enemy and get out of their way. Next...! 

[Zveroboy1]

I don't get this complaint at all.

All you need to do is bind :

Q and E to rotate the camera

W and S for forward and backward

and A and D to left and right

Then you can also use the mousewheel to pan up and down, control + left click to move over to a distant point on the map and possibly another key to reverse the view.

The OP must be using the right mouse button to move around, but this is only useful when shooting vids for youtube in order to get smooth camera movements, you can't play the game like this

[Combatintman]

6 hours ago, Ivanov said:

Just as a matter of interest, is real time mode really doable in CM? Setting your waypoints you have to be exact to a meter. This one meter often decides if you live or die. In the turn based mode, I often check few possible final positions of a unit, with their lines of fire, visibility and so on. I just don't see how you could do that in a hectic real time environment.

Yes it is - it just depends on your play style - when I play RT I hit the 'Esc' key a lot, when I play WEGO I plot more carefully.

[ASL Veteran]

14 hours ago, Blazing 88's said:

However it is ctrl + left click. 

Doh!