playing big maps

[mjkerner]

Pete, I am always interested in your maps! Dropbox, PM, or maybe just upload it anyway...people will grab it I'm sure.

[Broadsword56]

Yes, please!!

I could base another hexmap on it someday for another Cyberboard scenario to use in tandem with RT.

[Vanir Ausf B]

Hell, yeah I want it!

[Pete Wenman]

OK - I've upload a zip file with the map, overlay, and map image to the repository, so hopefully it will show in due course.

But do be careful, it's big and sucks resources. I never actually managed to open the complete map in 3d preview before the map size was reduced as it always CTD when trying, hence the lack of flavour objects as there was no way to position or edit them on the full size map

P

[Erwin]

When folks said they enjoyed a lot of the features of CM1 they were told to "get over it and they'd soon get used to CM2".

So, in the same spirit, let's have lots more large CM2 maps and scenarios and people will soon get used to playing large CM2 scenarios.

[Pete Wenman]

For those interested, and as the repository uploads don't yet seem to be feeding through to the forums, the Radzymin master map is now available to download.

http://www.battlefront.com/index.php?option=com_remository&Itemid=314&func=startdown&id=3074

Please do read the readme as to how to use this map.

P

[Frankster65]

The largest master maps that I made for the area of the Soviet campaign in RT (5 of them) were around 6k long by 3 to 5k wide. These are pretty wooded, with two maps having a number of buildings (but certainly not "urban" like in CM:MG).

The master maps are not scenarios. They are for scenario makers to chop up into smaller chunks to set battles on- there are no forces placed (you may know this already).

The largest of the CM:MG master maps I made (Nijmegen being the densest) had many, many buildings on them. My 2013 Mac Pro with an ATI 7950 and 16gb RAM running Windows 7 64bit in Bootcamp was able to fly about the map with no issues. Load times were quite long back then however. This has been improved in RT.

Some people may wish to make an entire battle with large forces on these maps, but they should have a speedy computer to attempt a full master map battle. The critical question with anything as large as these maps with lots of forces becomes- What are your computer specs?

I took a look for the first time at the master maps last night. You and Pete did a wonderful job with these works of art. My hats off to you both! You guys are indeed masters. I am already thinking of some scenarios I'd like to explore making on only a part of one of those maps. I have a question which seems dumb but I cannot find the answer to date. You mention the large maps are for scenario designers to chop up.

How do you do that in the map editor? Is there some kind of button I'm missing in the editor which allows you to pick a section of the master map and carve it out?

[Pete Wenman]

Pushing the minus sign on the appropriate side will reduce that map edge by 16m (2 x Action Squares)

Shift minus will reduce the appropriate edge by 80m (10x AS)

If cropping is done within the setup zones tab they can be used to mark the area to be cut.

In addition all the time the specific map being cut remains open in the editor it can be cropped and expanded as many times as required WITHOUT the loss of map detail. The cropped detail is only lost once the map is closed in the editor. So if you're not happy with the crop you can expand the map back out again.

HTH

P

[tiger123]

For a 8x2 or 6x2 km map would be great for a Kursk "operation". Most of the vehicles are here in TH . So perhaps the Panther Reg(s) and GD attack could be good.

[Broadsword56]

Does this really huge master map include the parts of the Radzymin operation where the SS units were involved? If so, it will be very useful for operational-tactical play once we have the SS in CM on the Eastern Front.

[Frankster65]

Thank you for the answers.

[FG ODIN]

i have dwnld this map, and can say WOW :eek: i have this map opened after load time ca.10 min, what i see that my ram go to 95% :eek: and i have install 24 GB ,my graphic card 100 % (GTX660TI) fraps after load 15fps , and that without troops but is a fine map gigantic panorama but not playable in this dimensions, i have after reduced to 4 x 4 km again opened no problem think that is limit for maps (have this test with Stug Brig. 45 x , 2 x pz.Gr.Btl. + 3 Kpn rgt. troops ari pio and at, russian 5 x tank btl mid + 3 btl MP hvy + support ari at etc., full playable for me fps 28 - 32 , is a great engine compliment....

[MikeyD]

That's why they call them 'master maps' The intent is to chop them into nice bite-size pieces for scenario making.

[Buzz]

Thank you Pete. Beautiful map!

Just purchased CMRT Mac yesterday and have been very pleased with how it looks and plays on my hackintosh. Loaded your Radzymin Master Map today in the editor and as a scenario (w/o units). Takes 2:45 to load and is amazingly smooth to move about. Slows a little near heavy tree areas but for such a massive map it is very supple. I can see the immersion attraction of using such a massive and aesthetically pleasing map.

Thanks.

[Greup]

What nobody has made so far is a map that is 2km x 8km. For a really long, detailed in depth battle this could be really fun. An example would be a defender starting with the middle 3/4 of the map and the attacker starting with the map edges (on the 2km side). The objective for the attacker is to join up, the defender to keep a road corridor open through the middle. This could be made even more challenging by having the defender get periodic reinforcements of trucks which have to be exited from one side to the other.

It would be a massive undertaking to make such a battle, and the battle itself would probably need the max time and regular reinforcements, but oh man... that could be one heck of an epic battle!

Steve

This reminds me of the old "Road to Wiltz" original Squad Leader scenario. Always thought that was a great idea.

[gcrain]

This reminds me of the old "Road to Wiltz" original Squad Leader scenario. Always thought that was a great idea.

Well hello Mr. 10 -3

I actually took Greup's counter out of my game and kept it around as a keepsake.

I seem to be having issues with big maps right now. Probably because my monitor is 2560 x 1440. Does anybody know which terrain is the resource hog in CM3? I suspect it is the trees but since we have been using only custom maps I'd like to make sure.

[slippy]

Hi all. I thought the max size in the editor was 4 x 4 km? How are some people making maps bigger than this, 6 X 5 for example?

Cheers

[Combatintman]

1 hour ago, slippy said:

Hi all. I thought the max size in the editor was 4 x 4 km? How are some people making maps bigger than this, 6 X 5 for example?

Cheers

Because you can these days - I can't recall what the total maximum area in km² is these days but once you know the figure it does allow you a lot more flex.  Nonetheless huge maps come at penalty in both the creation stage for the designer and then obviously for the strain it puts on the computer, particularly when you stick lots of forces on them.

[BornGinger]

1 hour ago, Combatintman said:

Nonetheless huge maps come at penalty... for the strain it puts on the computer, particularly when you stick lots of forces on them.

Which is one of the reasons why we need a new game engine which can support exactly that.

[slippy]

7 hours ago, Combatintman said:

Because you can these days - I can't recall what the total maximum area in km² is these days but once you know the figure it does allow you a lot more flex.  Nonetheless huge maps come at penalty in both the creation stage for the designer and then obviously for the strain it puts on the computer, particularly when you stick lots of forces on them.

I should have been clearer. I can't seem to make a map bigger than approx 4 x 4 km in the editor, the x and y coordinates max out at these values. How are people making bigger maps than that?

 

 

From the manual. 'maps can have a maximum total surface area of 18 kilometers squared (4248m x 4248m if shaped as a perfect square). No side can be longer than 8,000 meters.'

So how have 6 X 5 maps been created?

 

Edited March 12, 2021 by slippy

[Combatintman]

6 hours ago, slippy said:

I should have been clearer. I can't seem to make a map bigger than approx 4 x 4 km in the editor, the x and y coordinates max out at these values. How are people making bigger maps than that?

 

 

From the manual. 'maps can have a maximum total surface area of 18 kilometers squared (4248m x 4248m if shaped as a perfect square). No side can be longer than 8,000 meters.'

So how have 6 X 5 maps been created?

 

Ask someone who's made one - try @Pete Wenmanor @benpark

[slippy]

5 hours ago, Combatintman said:

Ask someone who's made one - try @Pete Wenmanor @benpark

Will do, thanks for the reply

 

[Pete Wenman]

@slippy The maximum map size was at one stage larger than is currently allowed and post earlier is this thread include Steve's comments on this . The largest maps that are out there were made before the restriction was put in place.

As you say maps are now capped at 18.1 kilometers squared (4.254k x 4.254k or any combination thereof)

My advice is don't make a map any bigger than it needs to be. Creating large maps is a time consuming task.

The maps I have made for the US Cold War campaign by my reckoning total 90.6 square kilometres which if my maths is correct equals 1,415625 x 8m action squares. Given the repeat clicks seen when making maps I reckon these must have taken at least 2 million mouse clicks to create. 

No doubt some will complain they are not big enough

P

 

Edited March 13, 2021 by Pete Wenman

[slippy]

1 hour ago, Pete Wenman said:

@slippy The maximum map size was at one stage larger than is currently allowed and post earlier is this thread include Steve's comments on this . The largest maps that are out there were made before the restriction was put in place.

As you say maps are now capped at 18.1 kilometers squared (4.254k x 4.254k or any combination thereof)

My advice is don't make a map any bigger than it needs to be. Creating large maps is a time consuming task.

The maps I have made for the US Cold War campaign by my reckoning total 90.6 square kilometres which if my maths is correct equals 1,415625 x 8m action squares. Given the repeat clicks seen when making maps I reckon these must have taken at least 2 million mouse clicks to create. 

No doubt some will complain they are not big enough

P

 

Thanks Pete, sorry i must have missed Steve's comments  That's fine mate if its 4.254 x 2.254 now, just thought i was missing a trick somewhere

90.6 square kilometers is indeed an impressive area, and 2 million mouse clicks even more so .

I understand the limitations of large maps, but thought it may have been easier to make one big master map to cut down rather than several small ones.

 

thanks for your reply, and get clicking!!

 

regards

 

slippy

[Pete Wenman]

41 minutes ago, slippy said:

but thought it may have been easier to make one big master map to cut down rather than several small ones.

that is certainly true, and do not let me put you off.

If you have any questions on large maps happy to cover off here or via PM

P