The start of actual news

[Childress]

I think CMBN is getting 2 modules and a "pack". But even with just 2 modules you can run into the same issue if you bought the base game and module 2 but not module 1.

Right. I meant to type 'limit a family to one base game and one module'.

[poesel]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_Bunny_Foo_Foo

I especially like this version:

The story is also retold in the book "Lenore, The Cute Dead Girl: Noogies" ([1]) whereby Lenore plays as Little Bunny Foo Foo and gets told to stop bopping field mice on the head by the good fairy. She continues bopping other animals instead, and so the good fairy reappears and reprimands her by saying: "no bopping ANY animals on the head!". Lenore responds by bopping the fairy. The moral of the story was: "be more specific".

[kohlenklau]

I lived in Europe a few times and I am not claiming to be an expert or anything but August seemed like the big vacation month. And I might be wrong but I am always thinking Webwing is German though someone said he is Brazilian. Plus Steve is probably enjoying his few weeks of summer up in LL Bean land. So I guess if we get OMG module by the OMG RL anniversary of 17 September 2013 we could be happy with that. Right fellas? (shhh, reverse psychology!).

Plus I keep waiting for the "GaJ and Bil Show" for the obligatory OMG AAR...

Though JonS's Scenario Editor Dissertation is showing some small glimpses behind the curtain.

What a great time to be a gamer.

[GSX]

Yes, we will have at least 4 "Theaters" of Families going at one time:

Eastern Front (at least 4 Families, one for each year

Steve

One family for each year with at least one module I imagine. Wouldnt 2 Families and more Modules be better?

1941-Early 43 could be one family and Mid 43 to 45 another. Just a thought as I cant see any difference in 1944 to 1945 which you are saying would be a seperate family. I cant think of any significant change to forces from 44 to 45 that would warrant a family of a new game and modules.

Can you please expand on your definition of Families and Modules for each year of the Eastern front. This is my personal favourite and so Im really interested in how you envisage these games rolling out and in what order.

I know its 1944 first, but will this be followed by 1945 or 1941 and how many modules would you plan for 1944 as Bagration starts half way through the year I imagine a winterized Module could follow the initial game?

Cheers

[kohlenklau]

I think for CMEF it is like this.

44-45 all in one family (Bagration to VE day, revealed by modules(r.b.m.)

43-44 all in one family (Zitadelle to pre-Bagration, r.b.m.)

42-43 all in one family (Spring 42 battles like Karkhov? up to pre-Zitadelle) r.b.m.

41-42 all in one family (Barbarossa D1 up to Spring 42) r.b.m

Maybe someone will come along with a quote of a post from the thread which explained their rationale. new equipment showed up in the spring, etc.)

[Lt Belenko]

I think for CMEF it is like this.

44-45 all in one family (Bagration to VE day, revealed by modules(r.b.m.)

43-44 all in one family (Zitadelle to pre-Bagration, r.b.m.)

42-43 all in one family (Spring 42 battles like Karkhov? up to pre-Zitadelle) r.b.m.

41-42 all in one family (Barbarossa D1 up to Spring 42) r.b.m

Maybe someone will come along with a quote of a post from the thread which explained their rationale. new equipment showed up in the spring, etc.)

Each Game is 1 year. BFCs split between games is something simple like Barbarossa started in June. Berlin ended in May. Where is the split? May/June - kinda easy.

Anyway, there was plenty of overlap in equipment type deployments. I figure the older equipment stayed around until it all was broken/destroyed. I doubt a Regimental commanders would say "Lets ship back those model L PzIII's the new model M's will be arriving off the show room floor any day now." Maybe the only tanks that were declared obsolete were Pz I.

[GSX]

Anyway, there was plenty of overlap in equipment type deployments. I figure the older equipment stayed around until it all was broken/destroyed. I doubt a Regimental commanders would say "Lets ship back those model L PzIII's the new model M's will be arriving off the show room floor any day now." Maybe the only tanks that were declared obsolete were Pz I.

Although you could well be right, Im not entirely sure that old vehicles would be kept when new ones arrived. Say you had twenty crews for a PzIII and twenty new PzIV were allocated to you. Where would you get the crews to keep the older models, where would the fuel and ammo come from now that Logistics know you have been re-equipped and are only supplying you 75mm ammo and parts for a newer vehicle.

Of course it all works if your re-eqipped in drips and drabs as Im sure was often the case but keeping older equipment wont work if you dont have the means to either carry it around or repair it, or more importantly, fight with it.

[Battlefront.com]

Some misc. comments...

In theory we'd love to do an even larger range of topics, but that is impractical for either development (we can only do so much) or marketing (the cost to make is more than the potential to sell) reasons. Which means it's unlikely there will be much more than what I already outlined.

The new concept is to have a Family consist of Base Game + 1 Module + ?# Packs. The Base establishes the general environment and the beginning portion of the timeframe. The Module expands the timeframe and (usually) environment (think Netherlands for Normandy Family, Gustav Line for Italy Family etc.) Packs flesh out the forces and possibly extra terrain bits and bobs.

Eastern Front is too massive to do anything but chop it up into major yearly components. The current plan is to have these divided up into 4 Families (as described above), but we're going to play that by ear. It may prove better to have this be an exception and consist of one Base, 3-7 Modules (as defined above), and oodles of Packs. Currently I'm leaning towards the latter, but until you hear otherwise it's still the original 4 Family concept with modified Module/Pack strategy. We have time to figure this out as Bagration (the first EF game) is well along and yet which way we go doesn't really matter at this point.

As a quick aside about the old equipment sticking around when new equipment arrived. For sure minor models variations were retained until adequate replacements arrived. But the Germans did try, often, to refit entire units with full sets of new equipment. Didn't always work that way, but the intent was to not have mixed vehicle models for logistics and/or tactical reasons. The equipment pushed out of a unit was then either utilized by other units within the same larger formation (Battalion, Regiment, Division, etc.) or was sent to another unit within the same theater or was shipped back to the rear for refitting. Those then either went to other fronts or, in some cases, foreign allies. Some were retained for training, such as the PzIIIs that took part in Market Garden (they came from a tank school).

Lastly, it is going to be a challenge to keep all Families updated with the Upgrade system. Each has unique challenges and testing requirements. Depending on what the new features are it could mean 4-6 weeks for a single Upgrade or perhaps several months (as was the case with the massive Normandy v2.0 Upgrade). However, we have already set up our testing so that we can do them simultaneously and we are not planning any changes as massive as what Normandy had to experience (we redid *every* unit's and soldier's artwork. Ouch).

Steve

[kohlenklau]

Thanks Steve! I hope you are enjoying your summer weather up there in LL Bean land. 84F and scattered clouds, lows still in the 50's/60's. Don't forget the sunscreen.

[kohlenklau]

So, CM Eastern Front might be in a matter of speaking "All in the Family".

[Tank Hunter]

Some misc. comments...

It may prove better to have this be an exception and consist of one Base, 3-7 Modules (as defined above), and oodles of Packs. Currently I'm leaning towards the latter, but until you hear otherwise it's still the original 4 Family concept with modified Module/Pack strategy. We have time to figure this out as Bagration (the first EF game) is well along and yet which way we go doesn't really matter at this point.

Steve

I'd love to see EF as one game with modules + Packs. Thumbs up!

[Bradley]

Having had so much time/fun with CMBN and FI, it has become my old standby. However, when the EF begins I will probably never go back to WF, just as I did with SF. Though the urge to play with the Shermans could be strong. Love those.

[Fizou]

Bradley,

And even they will be available in EF due to lend lease.

I like the idea of one big EF title with several modules to cover the entire conflict.

The possibility to play any theatre with the same level of detail and game behaviour is just great and a superb move by BF. I never really got into CMBO as I got my hands on CMBB first. The step backwards due to changes in code etc was just to big. That wont happen now. CMx2 is a dream come true

[Michael Emrys]

As a quick aside about the old equipment sticking around when new equipment arrived....The equipment pushed out of a unit was then either utilized by other units within the same larger formation (Battalion, Regiment, Division, etc.) or was sent to another unit within the same theater or was shipped back to the rear for refitting.

This raises a question that I will throw out for anyone who knows the answer. How many obsolete tanks that were shipped back to the plant were remanufactured as assault guns or tank destroyers? Or were those only built on new chassis?

Michael

[Freyberg]

I would prefer one base game for each theatre and lots of modules and packs. I'm likely to buy them all, and it's great fun to have so much to play with all within one game. As for synching with opponents - the H2H crowd seem to be keen customers, I've only run across one two people who haven't had both CMBN plus CW or CMFI plus GL, and it's no big deal to keep track of what can be played by each module (although it might be useful to have an indication of what modules/packs are required to play a particular scenario in in the battle-picker).

[Paper Tiger]

Depending on what the new features are it could mean 4-6 weeks for a single Upgrade or perhaps several months (as was the case with the massive Normandy v2.0 Upgrade).

It's worth bearing in mind that that particular upgrade required the artists to redo all the model artwork so your experience with that upgrade probably isn't a good indicator as to how long future upgrades will take

[Ithikial_AU]

I'd support EF as one base game with the longer line of modules and packs. Finance considerations of course should come first, but it would make organization so much more easier on the user end if it was all part of the one program.

[Michael Emrys]

I'd support EF as one base game with the longer line of modules and packs.

I must admit I don't see this at present. The only advantage I can think of is fewer icons in my dock. Seems like trying to pack all the game engine development into one base game would significantly delay release until everything got in. I'd rather get one family per year than have to wait four years to get just one.

Michael

[Vanir Ausf B]

One advantage is that all East Front maps would be compatible rather than the situation we have with CMBN and CMFI.

[Freyberg]

One advantage is that all East Front maps would be compatible rather than the situation we have with CMBN and CMFI.

+1 to that...

[kohlenklau]

Map compatibility might not be all that simple even in the same family...

According to paraphrase of Webwing in the JonS Scenario Design Thread, in CMBN flavor object selection pallet will change in CMBN depending on region selected: France or Holland. Also building models change flavor, etc. Polder terrain type only for Holland or just a new terrain element in the map editor even if you pick 6 June 44. I don't know.

WIndmills? Only for Holland I would presume.

So, 2 years from now your buddy sends you a cool Stalingrad scenario/map and he has CMEF base + modules 1 thru 3, you only got something else and then your graphics has got dudes with 6 arms and stuff, right? Give you nightmares! Or maybe it just detects you aint got the goods and crashes....

[Sublime]

2 years from now for Stalingrad? Try 4-6

[BLSTK]

^^ @ Kohlenklau

"...dudes with 6 arms and stuff..."

Would we find that under "rarities"?

[ASL Veteran]

(although it might be useful to have an indication of what modules/packs are required to play a particular scenario in in the battle-picker).

It actually does that now. If you have a commonwealth scenario on your computer and you don't have the commonwealth module installed, it will be darkened with red writing across the image that says 'Commonwealth module is required for this scenario'.

[sfhand]

I used to think it would be great if there was only one game and everything else was modules (including theaters) because I'd like to be able to play "what if" scenarios. I wasn't looking at this as a way of cutting my costs, but rather as a way of achieving maximum usage of the content. I am still hoping BF offers a glue it all together title so we can play "what if" scenarios, but right now there is so much content I haven't gotten to, including CMSF and all its modules - all of which I've owned from day one, that if BF never made another game I'd still have several years of game playing before I ran out of stuff to play (I am pretty much a pbem only player).

I'd like to believe the current strategy is a very nice blend of engine development and new content. I wonder if at some point in the future it would be less work to have a unified engine than making upgrades for each title as the engine develops and the number of titles increases.