The start of actual news

[akd]

fifth leg in a cat, you're not going to find any. You might find its tail or its dick, but not a 'leg'.

Found it!

[sburke]

The heck with all of you, I went over there and the fridge was empty and so was the cubbard. Redwolf showed up and we sat quietly and awkwardly for a few minutes until he said he had to make a call and excused himself and left...

That is the last thread party I throw!!!

Well, at least til the fall. I like Autumn beers.

I gotta go listen to some of those dead songs. thanks Sburke!

See, this wasn't a complete waste of time. Hey there is a new Dave's picks out as well.

Horton Field House, Illinois State University, Normal, IL 4/24/78

Normal Dude, this wouldn't be your Alma Mater would it? :cool:

And that cat pic is gonna give me nightmares tonight...

[ForwardObserver]

Found it!

Poor thing

[BLSTK]

I'd say there's way too much - textual - bullying going on these forums. Indeed, people can as juvenile as they want on the Internet for free. But things can get out of hand really quick.

Well said, FO. Thanks for being so...forward...and for putting this discussion into perspective. Hopefully, cooler heads will prevail.

[BLSTK]

Finally, iMolestCats has met his match!

[Michael Emrys]

I had it explained to me once that this was just one more example of how detailed the game is, they are sliding on cow patties...

Whenever the truppen do that I can almost hear them saying, "Whoa, Nelly!"

Michael

[womble]

Another general observation is that the TacAI seems to struggle at times with terrain features which go against the 'grain' of the action spots (for instance, making a diagonal cut across the action spot), especially heavy weapons units that require deployment. I've yet to be able to get an MG team to deploy properly against a diagonal piece of bocage, hedge or wall: they don't seem to be able to deploy along the obstacle properly, even when issuing a Face command specifying a direction orthogonal to that of the obstacle.

You're either exercising hyperbole, obfuscating, so mired in your own preconceptions or playing a different game to me (BN 1.11-noCW or FI 1.01). I very rarely (it does happen, but it's a tiny minority, notable because of its rarity) have MG teams struggle to set up in firing positions behind linear obstacles of any orientation. I'm pretty consistent with the "Face" command at the end point.

[Vanir Ausf B]

The only issue I have with machine guns deploying along bocage is that doing so tends to reduce their LOF because the machine gun sets up at on the back side of the action spot rather than up front with the rest of the team. This is especially noticeable with the US M1919.

[ForwardObserver]

You're either exercising hyperbole, obfuscating, so mired in your own preconceptions or playing a different game to me (BN 1.11-noCW or FI 1.01). I very rarely (it does happen, but it's a tiny minority, notable because of its rarity) have MG teams struggle to set up in firing positions behind linear obstacles of any orientation. I'm pretty consistent with the "Face" command at the end point.

I'm already playing a different game (CMBN 2.01 and GL). And playing different scenarios, probably. I'm very fond of Fredrocker's scenarios, who uses quite creatively map elements to present quite challenging tactical problems.

Or maybe the problem is in the tactics I'm using, since are the Germans the side I usually perceive this. I feel that the German early 1944 'standard pattern' squads (1 MP40, 1 MG42, 6 Kar 98k) are quite lacking when it comes to firepower, compared to the US infantry, and somewhat less, compared to Commonwealth infantry. PanzerGrenadier and Waffen SS squads, with their dual MG and higher proportion of automatic weapons are a different story. So I usually find myself bringing forward these bulky HMG teams forward - I say bulky, compared with the US MG teams, which are usually broken down into a 3-man gun element and 3-man ammo bearer/escort element - looking for oblique lines of fire on enemy positions. Depending on the layout of the terrain elements, or the lack of AFV support such as Skdfz's or StuG's, doing this - or rather, getting it right - can be hard.

[BFCElvis]

I have the impression that problems with the TacAI are the exception, not the norm.

Many more problems may go away once the game is taught to handle corners of buildings and ends of walls correctly.

I am getting good results by use of sneaking at the end of movement orders, also, which is perhaps what real soldiers would do, anyway.

The game gives you the possibility of splitting squads, which definitely brings it closer to 1:1 control.

Map design also has a influence. I just played a nice city map with zero TacAI problems. On the other hand, I remember a very "complicated" city map from the Gustav module that could be used as a showcase for the TacAI problems you mention.

None of these items are of interest to me. Just to add one data point to the statistic.

Best regards,

Thomm

It's funny you say the Thomm. As I was just scrolling through this I was thinking the exact same thing. I played an awesome very small battle yesterday (I'm pretty sure it's the same one you're referring to) and I couldn't help but notice how well the TacAI ALWAYS seemed to move the individuals to the exact spot I would have moved them to if I controlled each man. It even happened while they were routing for cover.

What I don't understand from your post is how a map design would influence this?

[stciaram]

Please, please.... Include troops on tank, flamethrow, churchill avre e crocodile, sdkfz 251 flam, possibility to exchange crew for tank & gun, possibility to use enemy ordnance abandoned.... I hope

[A Canadian Cat]

These have come up before. If you search around you can often find multiple threads. I recommend searching using google and their "site:" keyword. For example Crazy lone Google search url

The following is a summary from my memory:

Please, please.... Include troops on tank,

flamethrow,

Tank riding is widely expected to be in the eastern front game as are flames and flame throwers.

churchill avre e crocodile, sdkfz 251 flam,

There are plans for a pack of extra vehicles for CMBN - it seems like that will arrive after flames have been added to the game and back ported to CMBN. Nothing official but we know there is a pack planned for CMBN.

possibility to exchange crew for tank & gun,

Yeah, not going to happen. This has been talked about before and one word sums it up - Denied.

possibility to use enemy ordnance abandoned.... I hope

Yep, same. Captured weapons were used in WWII but it was *not* normal for that to happen "on the fly" during combat. So, don't expect to see that added to the game.

[poesel]

Yeah, not going to happen. This has been talked about before and one word sums it up - Denied.

Hmm, this could mean two things: to be able to leave and re-crew ATGs and to be able to switch teams between verhicles.

I'm pretty sure the ATG thing is not denied - it's just currently not possible but will come eventually.

And AFAIK the team switching has not been finally decided. It's just one of the things that happened but not terribly often and so is low on the list. There's also the concern that this would lead to gamey behaviour.

[Baneman]

... There's also the fact that this will lead to gamey behaviour.

Fixed that for you

[kohlenklau]

??? You ever been in a restaurant and you're a huge group at one table just aching with hunger and there is another table with another huge group of lustful carnivores just going at it and they are like chowing down and plenty of waiter/waitress attentiveness and beers being brought and food being shoved into mouths and smiles and you are waiting and waiting and waiting and it seems forever til finally Steve shows up to say.........

[A Canadian Cat]

Hmm, this could mean two things: to be able to leave and re-crew ATGs and to be able to switch teams between verhicles.

I'm pretty sure the ATG thing is not denied - it's just currently not possible but will come eventually.

My bad. Your are quite correct I was focusing on the tank crew swapping part - that is denied. The re crewing AT guns was not denied but I am not holding my breath either because they have stated the priority is low for them.

And AFAIK the team switching has not been finally decided. It's just one of the things that happened but not terribly often and so is low on the list. There's also the concern that this would lead to gamey behaviour.

My memory tells me that the tank crew switching was pretty firmly denied - for the prevention of gamey stuff. The only real crew swapping that had much likely hood to happen in a CM battle would be an unhorsed HQ crew kicking some lower ranked crew out of a tank to regain command of the force. I compensate for that by getting my HQ crew into a radio equipped HT or jeep. That puts them back in command and as long as you keep them safely back it works quite well.

[Erwin]

'...getting my HQ crew into a radio equipped HT or jeep."

Ah, brilliant. Thanks for the xnt tactic.

[Sequoia]

The following is a summary from my memory:

Tank riding is widely expected to be in the eastern front game as are flames and flame throwers.

I have no inside knowledge, but I think Tank Riding is a long way off and will not be in the Bagration Game Family based on the amount of animations needed just to make it look right and as every type of vehicle would have to be coded and the riders animated differently for where the tank riders would sit and hang on.

[Baneman]

I have no inside knowledge, but I think Tank Riding is a long way off and will not be in the Bagration Game Family based on the amount of animations needed just to make it look right and as every type of vehicle would have to be coded and the riders animated differently for where the tank riders would sit and hang on.

Yeah, but it could just as easily be why BFC have supposedly "missed" their optimistic game/module release rate - due to the fact that it IS in, but is very complex and thus took/is taking longer.

I like my glass more than half full.

I still think flames are going to make a surprise appearance in MG - even if it's just buildings & grass catching fire and burning, not flamethrowers proper. It would be a good way to work out the kinks without going the full wellie in one release.

[kohlenklau]

Come on BFC, you bloody sheep shaggers, go the full wellie for Baneman!

(note to self: God, I gotta buy some single malt scotch...)

[sburke]

Come on BFC, you bloody sheep shaggers, go the full wellie for Baneman!

(note to self: God, I gotta buy some single malt scotch...)

I think you'd have more luck if you bought Steve and Charles some

[nachinus]

I still think flames are going to make a surprise appearance in MG - even if it's just buildings & grass catching fire and burning, not flamethrowers proper. It would be a good way to work out the kinks without going the full wellie in one release.

Actually I think that'd be very appropriate. IIRC, the germans made good use of fire in Arnhem as a means to rooting out enemy resistance from buildings. Many, many houses were deliberately burnt down during the fight.

[A Canadian Cat]

'...getting my HQ crew into a radio equipped HT or jeep."

Ah, brilliant. Thanks for the xnt tactic.

Indeed it works great. I cannot claim credit for this. I am pretty sure I read in on these forums. So, whom ever it was that came up with the idea - thanks.

[c3k]

??? You ever been in a restaurant and you're a huge group at one table just aching with hunger and there is another table with another huge group of lustful carnivores just going at it and they are like chowing down and plenty of waiter/waitress attentiveness and beers being brought and food being shoved into mouths and smiles and you are waiting and waiting and waiting and it seems forever til finally Steve shows up to say.........

... if you skinflints had tipped a bit higher the LAST time your lot were here, maybe you'd have been served before the cook went home!

[Michael Emrys]

I like my glass more than half full.

I can understand that. I just hope for your sake that you aren't plunged into a suicidal depression when your hopes are crushed. But just in case you are, remember to slice lengthways along the vein or artery and not across it.

HTH

Michael