• Announcements

    • Battlefront.com

      Special Upgrade 4 Tech Tips   12/27/2016

      Hi all! Now that Upgrade 4 is out and about in large quantities we have now discovered a few SNAFUs that happen out in the scary, real world that is home computing.  Fortunately the rate of problems is extremely small and so far most are easily worked around.  We've identified a few issues that have similar causes which we have clear instructions for work arounds here they are: 1.  CMRT Windows customers need to re-license their original key.  This is a result of improvements to the licensing system which CMBN, CMBS, and CMFB are already using.  To do this launch CMRT with the Upgrade and the first time enter your Engine 4 key.  Exit and then use the "Activate New Products" shortcut in your CMRT folder, then enter your Engine 3 license key.  That should do the trick. 2.  CMRT and CMBN MacOS customers have a similar situation as #2, however the "Activate New Products" is inside the Documents folder in their respective CM folders.  For CMBN you have to go through the process described above for each of your license keys.  There is no special order to follow. 3.  For CMBS and CMFB customers, you need to use the Activate New Products shortcut and enter your Upgrade 4 key.  If you launch the game and see a screen that says "LICENSE FAILURE: Base Game 4.0 is required." that is an indication you haven't yet gone through that procedure.  Provided you had a properly functioning copy before installing the Upgrade, that should be all you need to do.  If in the future you have to install from scratch on a new system you'll need to do the same procedure for both your original license key and your Upgrade 4.0 key. 4.  There's always a weird one and here it is.  A few Windows users are not getting "Activate New Products" shortcuts created during installation.  Apparently anti-virus software is preventing the installer from doing its job.  This might not be a problem right now, but it will prove to be an issue at some point in the future.  The solution is to create your own shortcut using the following steps: Disable your anti-virus software before you do anything. Go to your Desktop, right click on the Desktop itself, select NEW->SHORTCUT, use BROWSE to locate the CM EXE that you are trying to fix. The location is then written out. After it type in a single space and then paste this:

      -showui

      Click NEXT and give your new Shortcut a name (doesn't matter what). Confirm that and you're done. Double click on the new Shortcut and you should be prompted to license whatever it is you need to license. At this time we have not identified any issues that have not been worked around.  Let's hope it stays that way Steve
    • Battlefront.com

      Instructions for Upgrading CMFI to Engine 4   04/09/2017

      Upgrading CMFI to Engine 4 requires prior product purchases be relicensed.  This is because we've updated the copy protection software.  This is a one time thing which also affected CMBN Mac and CMRT for both platforms, so some of you will find these instructions familiar.  The method of relicensing is flexible, but here's the optimal method: 1.  After installing using the Full or Update installers, launch the game.  You'll be prompted to license.  Enter you Engine 4 license key and exit. 2.  Use the "Activate New Products" short cut in your CMFI folder to launch the game with the license window.  Enter your Engine 3 license key.  If you bought the Upgrade 3 + 4 Bundle then you can skip this step. 3.  Use the "Activate New Products" short again and enter your Engine 2 license key *IF* you have one, otherwise skip this step.  Note that CMFI started it's life was Engine 2, therefore if you owned the game prior to Upgrade 3 coming out then your CMFI Base Game license key is your Engine 2 key. 4.  If you purchased Gustav Line as a separate product, use "Activate New Products" again and enter your Gustav license key.  If you bought Gustav as a Bundle, it should already be activated. If you should run into any issues, try to figure out what key is missing (the game should give you adequate feedback for that) and use "Activate New Products" link to allow you to enter whichever key is needed.  If you still have a problem, especially if you bought a Gustav Line Bundle (some keys definitely didn't transition correctly!), file with our Help Desk and include the license key you're having problems with: https://battlefront.mojohelpdesk.com If you can not find your license keys sent to you by email, no problem.  Go to your store account and check your Order History.  Keys and download links are always there for you unless you ordered a "hardgoods only" option.  In that case your license keys are on the back of the CD/DVD cases that came in the mail. Also good to know... if a download link in an email confirmation doesn't work, go to Order History and try from there.
Hilts

Has 4.0 made the stock campaigns unplayable?

95 posts in this topic

I was two thirds of the way through playing a mission from Conrath's Counterattack. I forget which number mission but it's the one where the Germans have to fight their way up a valley and capture the crossroads. I had been blasting away at the American foxholes for what seemed like an eternity with machine gun fire and tank 50mm and 75mm HE. Progress was tough and slow. Within five turns of upgrading to engine 4.0 all the American troops had fled and I was able to just amble up and take the crossroads with hardly any additional casualties. I am also playing through the Road to Nijmegen campaign (where the boot is on the other foot) and have reached the missions where hordes of Germans attack the US paras around the windmill and hotel. For some reason the designer has chosen to make all the paras regular troops and so are constantly fleeing for their lives when confronted by such numbers and fire-power, making the battle hopeless and pointless. It seems to me that suddenly a lot of the fun has been taken out of these battles unless you play with veteran or above. As I tend to play more scenarios/campaigns than quick battles this is very seldom possible.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It has been mentioned elsewhere that troops seem to flee from trenches too often in this current update. But I don't know if BF has tweaked something related to this behavior. Maybe is an unexpected reaction to something else, like the new spacing or peeking around corners have unexpectedly changed the trench behavior? But that's just my guess.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I welcome all the other changes in 4.0 , particularly the more robust hunt command but it's the change they made to the troop AI and the effects of HE fire that's causing the trouble. It could do with another tweak to bring it somewhere between the two in my opinion.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It seems that troops morale is much more dynamic in 4.0, but unfortunately, it would also seem that this extends to troops in fortified positions.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This issue is currently my number one reason not to upgrade.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I like the fleeing soldiers in 4.0

 

Played a German campaign where you play some scenarios with elite SS or Falschirmjäger troops and others with green Luftwaffe or Marine troops.

The difference is huge!

For the green soldiers it is essential to keep them in command range.

And your enemy's will flee too!

The fleeing soldiers seem to be especially happy for big shell holes....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I appreciate the skittishness of troops in 4.0 as more "realistic" behavior.  Previously the games featured too many heroes who would stand, fight to the last, and die.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Truth be told, I have solely purchased CMFI to play as the Italians so seeing those Americans run away in the campaign is not really a bad thing. :D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm a bit on the fence with the new Infantry behavior as well. Oh the one hand I completely agree with what @Erwin said. Before, in many cases troops tended to stand their ground to the death too frequently. Specifically when taking direct HE fire from a tank they can see. "Displace dammit!"

However on the flip side now with 4.0 and the new behavior, I've run into a few situations where Infantry break and run when they absolutely should not. In CMFB there is a mission that features a mixed group of US airborne and regular infantry defending a town against an SS attack with a king tiger and some disguised SS in American uniforms, and even a captured Sherman. Cannot recall the name of the battle at the moment. The battle begins with a germanartillery barrage, and to my horror, just as the rounds started landing my riflemen abandoned their defensive positions inside of houses, running out into the open and being cut down by subsequent shells. I've observed other cases of Infantry bailing from foxholes and/or trenches when they clearly should have stayed in place. 

A lot of the missions/campaigns in CMFI are based around entrenched defenders, specifically the Monte Casino campaign. Playing it in v3.0 is quite a challenge, as it should be seeing how difficult the campaign was in real life. But now with the 4.0 Infantry changes I'm afraid that the campaign will be too easy, as all you'll have to do to drive the enemy out of their defensive positions is put some HE in their general location. Doesn't seem right. 

I haven't upgraded CMFI yet because I'm away and haven't had the chance to do so. When I return I will be upgrading despite my few nitpicks with v4.0 as I think by and large the update was very good. And I already paid for it ;)

Is there any info about possible tweaks to this new behavior to make dug in Infantry more resilient? Right now the only thing I know that can be done is to give u it's you do not want to leave an indefinite pause command, but this obviously doesn't work for the AI in a campaign battle. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

"...riflemen abandoned their defensive positions inside of houses, running out into the open and being cut down by subsequent shells. I've observed other cases of Infantry bailing from foxholes and/or trenches when they clearly should have stayed in place."

That's not ideal...  The AI should give troops an experience or morale boost when they are in good defensive positions in addition to a defensive bonus.

Edited by Erwin

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Cpt. Miller, I see the same thing. Troops under a barrage or stonk, or just receiving very heavy fire break and run at all the wrong times after 4.0.

There's a fix of sorts. Thanks to IanL for this:  If you want your men to stay put while getting shellacked, give them a full Pause order--not the timed ones--hit the farthest left button above the Orders box. It's an "O" with a horizontal line through it.  Works very good to keep your men put.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Agreed, I've been seeing in v4.0 infantry fleeing foxholes under HE fire far too easily (when they wouldn't previously), only to be cut down metres away by that same HE fire.

Considering foxholes are 'relatively' easy to spot, their benefit currently (in V4.0) is highly debatable: enemy spots them rapidly, drops some HE and voila; a moving shooting gallery of men appears (likely rapidly mowed down by the same HE barrage).  

 

It's one thing for men in the open to flee under a HE barrage, but it seems foxholes/fortifications need to add a significantly bigger morale boost to offset the v4.0 changes in AI behaviour under HE fire.  Note that i am seeing this in both CM: BS and CM: FB.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Investigating this is near the top of my todo list. I have a couple of concerns - my gut says that I'll be able to make the case that troops should not flee from foxholes,trenches and buildings when under an artillery barrage but I am unsure how to make the case that they should not flee so quickly from just a normal ground assault. If you guys have ideas on that I'm all ears. Perhaps we don't really want to do that at all.

BTW someone (sorry whomever you are for not crediting you) suggested adding a pause to your troops in their fortified positions so they don't move even if they want to. Select the team in question press the P key 10 times or just the pause quick command once. Now they will not move even if the feel the need. There are downsides to this - they don't ever flee even if the become shaken, they stick it out even more than before - but it can be useful for some teams.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It seems to me that the ability to 'Pause' the troops has already fixed the problem.....Clicking it is a bit like the squad leader shouting "stay put & keep your heads down". 

Presumably they will still fire their weapons if directly attacked, so the decision to abandon defences is in the player's hands under those circumstances.

Just my tuppence.  ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 minutes ago, Sgt.Squarehead said:

It seems to me that the ability to 'Pause' the troops has already fixed the problem.....Clicking it is a bit like the squad leader shouting "stay put & keep your heads down". 

Presumably they will still fire their weapons if directly attacked, so the decision to abandon defences is in the player's hands <Snip>  

Yep, they will still fire their weapons.  Or at least Pause will not stop them from shooting.  This permanent Pause works for PBEM games.  I think the problem is when a human is playing against the AI.  The AI is not able to use this workaround.  The 4.0 running away behavior tends to spoil scenarios created before 4.0.  Designers who tested and released a scenario with certain expected behavior by the AI can no longer expect that original AI behavior.      

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sounds like the use of pause command is an exploit to avoid panicking when there is no follow-up order, like a movement order, and actually a bug that artificially grants morale boost when there one.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Needs fixing for sure. I am having the game on hold until it is balanced out better. The pause thing is a nice workaround put enemy troops are fleeing like chickens out of their trenches as soon as I give them the bad look... ;) 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

D'oh.....I should have thought of that really!  :unsure:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, MOS:96B2P said:

 I think the problem is when a human is playing against the AI.  The AI is not able to use this workaround.  The 4.0 running away behavior tends to spoil scenarios created before 4.0.  Designers who tested and released a scenario with certain expected behavior by the AI can no longer expect that original AI behavior.      

I don‘t think that this is something that relates to only older scenarios. Even if the scenario desigers are aware of this AI behaviour by now it may still be difficult to force the AI to hold on to a prepared defensive possition (trenches) in a  'realistic way' even in newly produced scenarious.

Obviously there are many wiews on what a realistic way is though. ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, RepsolCBR said:

I don‘t think that this is something that relates to only older scenarios. <Snip>

Yep.  I think your probably right.  Hopefully BFC can tweak the behavior some.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, MOS:96B2P said:

Yep, they will still fire their weapons.  Or at least Pause will not stop them from shooting.  This permanent Pause works for PBEM games.  I think the problem is when a human is playing against the AI.  The AI is not able to use this workaround.  The 4.0 running away behavior tends to spoil scenarios created before 4.0.  Designers who tested and released a scenario with certain expected behavior by the AI can no longer expect that original AI behavior.      

This is my original point: the pause command trick is fine for your own troops, but when fighting against the AI they have no such trick as well, making attacking a position defended by the AI unrealistically easy. All you have to do is hit positions with a few HE rounds and the enemy abandons their positions. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

only what you can do for AI is giving better moral, its help litle bit, but you canot do this to camppaing missions.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, RepsolCBR said:

 Even if the scenario desigers are aware of this AI behaviour by now it may still be difficult to force the AI to hold on to a prepared defensive possition (trenches) in a  'realistic way' even in newly produced scenarious.

 

Problem is if scenario designers start beefing up the experience and motivation of defenders to get them to hold position and then BFC decide to edit the code to get defenders to hold position longer in foxholes/trenches/buildings we could be fighting some very tough dug in defenders.

I like the new dynamic of troops fleeing from a barrage too many times before men of average quality with shattered morale would hold till the last, it just needs tweaking a little.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, bodkin said:

Problem is if scenario designers start beefing up the experience and motivation of defenders to get them to hold position and then BFC decide to edit the code to get defenders to hold position longer in foxholes/trenches/buildings we could be fighting some very tough dug in defenders.

I like the new dynamic of troops fleeing from a barrage too many times before men of average quality with shattered morale would hold till the last, it just needs tweaking a little.

I agree completely, and I'm confident there will be some such tweak in an upcoming patch. All that is needed is for foxholes/trenches and the like to impart some kind of extra bonus that keeps troops from fleeing from artillery barrages so quickly. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, bodkin said:

Problem is if scenario designers start beefing up the experience and motivation of defenders to get them to hold position and then BFC decide to edit the code to get defenders to hold position longer in foxholes/trenches/buildings we could be fighting some very tough dug in defenders.

True.

Another problem with this quick solution is that the scenario designers might want to depict a fight with low quality/ experience defenders.

Upping the experience and motivation a few notches to have them remain in their prepared possitions a bit longer might work well as long as they remain in their trenches but ones they are forced out of their possitions they will still remaine maybe elite troops with high motivations wich might not be what the designer wants if he is trying to depict a defensive line held by green troops

Some sort of moddifier to the trenches them self might be needed.

This nut that may seem like a fairly easy one to crack might not be quite so easy after all.

Hopefully some good solution will pop up.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now