New CMSF screenshots. Urban warfare

[Battlefront.com]

Bil,

I believe the guns should be rotated in different orientations depending on where the vehicle is in the formation... frontal should not necessarily be the default.

To do that the vehicle would first have to know what a formation is and then how it relates to it and then finally how that relates to terrain. Needless to say, that ain't going to happen

There was a thread about wounded/dead a long time ago that is pretty much still accurate. Minor wounded continue to stay with the unit, major wounded/dead are dropped out. There is no detailed treatment of casualties in CM:SF as this would require almost a sim within a sim. The US units are penalized by delays when they suffer a casualty. At least when they are moving. This abstractly simulates the tactical downside of caring about each and every guy in the unit.

Steve

[flammenwerfer]

Originally posted by Sequoia:

There should be swallows carrying coconuts from the palm trees as well.

The only Swallow native to the ME has been extinct for thousands of years.

[Peter Cairns]

Steve,

You should consider a module that deals with nothing but the casualties and civilians and leaves all the fighting to the AI for both sides.

Then see if you can get the UN, UNHCR or Unesco to buy it to give to schools etc, or even the red cross (or is it diamond now) for PR or training.

As far as I know even with the vast amount of concern about civilian casualties and the human cost of war, no one has ever really tryed to do a "Medic" game.

I doubt it would be a big seller for Gamers but an agency , organisation or charity might be interested.

Peter.

[jeffsmith]

Originally posted by Sequoia:

There should be swallows carrying coconuts from the palm trees as well. http://community.battlefront.com/uploads/emoticons/default_wink.png' alt=';)'>

Thats Been Covered

[Dogface]

As far as I know even with the vast amount of concern about civilian casualties and the human cost of war, no one has ever really tryed to do a "Medic" game.

Vivendi did one a couple of years ago.

Combat Medic: Special Operations Releases

Now you can feel the pressure of being a Special Forces Medic in Combat Medic: Special Operations, the first 3-D medical military simulation for PC. The game has shipped to retailers nationwide.

[Battlefront.com]

That game was like Operation but with blood and without the funny redlight for a nose

Steve

[Dogface]

heh, I dunno I never played it. I have seen it many times at half priced books however. Even at the bargin bin price I still had to say no.

[sage2]

IRT 'looking dirty', it seems to me that there would be good milage in working on the textures to make the buildings and pavement look cracked, dusty, peeling and stained.

[kipanderson]

Hi,

First my usual disclaimer…

I am one of those most enthusiastic about a contemporary setting…

But just imagine what a depiction of a winter environment on the Eastern Front with mechanised troops working there way through village Russia would look like given this level of modelling.

There may be a heaven after all .

Great stuff,

All the best,

Kip.

[GreenAsJade]

The main reason the scenes look too "clean" is actually the lack of wires, both on poles in the streets and hung on buildings. As per the photo above where someone put an arrow to the sign. Having signs will be nice, but wires and pipes are the visual mess, I think....

[Sixxkiller]

I am disappointed. The graphics look good and all but where's the button to PRE-ORDER?

[John Kettler]

Sixxkiller,

As a result of the ceaseless customer demands for various weapons and gear, I'm afraid the button won't be in until the first module!

Regards,

John Kettler

[MikeyD]

"...is actually the lack of wires, both on poles in the streets and hung on buildings."

Awhile ago I requested lots of wire in cities (and posted Iraqi city photos to illustrate) less for asthetics and more for hindrances to long range TOW fire down a city street! BFC consulted their sources and replied that strung wires weren't as much of a problem to TOWs as one would suppose. It appears TOW Strykers, for instance, normally fire their weapons at very near minimum arming range! No need for three mile TOW shots when you're doing close infantry support.

I can 'imagine' (knowing nothing about this kinda stuff) how a few strung wire BMPs between buildings could be handled with little extra burdon to the OS. But just because I can imagine it doesn't mean it actually could be easily or quickly done

[Sergei]

Originally posted by Sixxkiller:

I am disappointed. The graphics look good and all but where's the button to PRE-ORDER?

Thou asketh, and thou shalth receive:

[Sergei]

Originally posted by MikeyD:

I can 'imagine' (knowing nothing about this kinda stuff) how a few strung wire BMPs between buildings could be handled with little extra burdon to the OS.

Putting burden on CPU might not be so much of a problem as making it really work. Either the engine would have to know where to place them automatically so that it looks good, or then the scenario designers would have to place them manually. And that could just get hairy...

[MikeyD]

Okay, here's my (probably dumb) idea for wires based on how I'd imagine it could be handled by the old CMx1 engine.

A single rectangle poly about one storey tall with a piece of BMP art assigned to it. The art would be mostly knock-out magenta with strung wire art at the top (see my crude sample). A clever programmer could tell the map to connect any two buildings (or telephone poles) on the map that are closer than 20m apart with this polygon, which could be stretchable in width to bridge th gaps. A normal map might have... forty auto-placed polygons, perhaps?

Yeh, the final art might look 'slightly' crummy and there's a chance that the new game engine doesn't use art at all like CMx1 would. But hey, we need to discuss something while waiting on the game, right?

[Sergei]

Originally posted by MikeyD:

A single rectangle poly about one storey tall with a piece of BMP art assigned to it. The art would be mostly knock-out magenta with strung wire art at the top (see my crude sample). A clever programmer could tell the map to connect any two buildings (or telephone poles) on the map that are closer than 20m apart with this polygon, which could be stretchable in width to bridge th gaps. A normal map might have... forty auto-placed polygons, perhaps?

But then if you had two (or more) rows of houses adjacent, it'd be a horribly ugly mess of wires going from one house to another in every direction. I mean, repetitive. You'd have to code into the game some more random looking logic, and that'd be time consuming.

Using a couple of polygons would also be preferable to a stretched bitmap, because flat bitmaps just look so ugly in comparison to the rest of the graphics. Like trees in CMx1...

[MikeyD]

"it'd be a horribly ugly mess of wires going from one house to another in every direction."

Criss-crossing ugly messes of wires rather defines most cities! Its funny how we've grown so used to it we don't even notice them in the environment anymore. I admit my (cough cough) 'solution' is rather lowest acceptable quality but it would have the one benefit of minimal processor footprint. And I'm not clever enough to think of anything better

I'll scrounge old photo I've linked to previously. This time forget about the foreground, just pay attention to the strung wires in the background. Whotta mess!

Oh, and no, I don't expect this discussion to sway BFC one inch on including wires in the game.

[Sergei]

I'm thinking of the standards of the rest of the game, like that Stryker 'cage'. If that mesh is modelled in full 3d instead of a simple bitmap (like in CMx1) then having such bitmaps stretching across the street would really stand to your eye.

OTOH going for photorealism would mean that most of the time, the wires would be too thin to be noticed by the player except at the closest distance. They're very thin in that photograph.

[hoolaman]

Although I realise its just early Alpha graphics, I must say I don't like it.

If we compare other dusty Arab countries like Iraq, nothing is quite straight, clean or square.

Even CMBO had equal or better suspension of disbelief I think. Compare this photo from the "photo of the day" thread.

And everything in all the CMSF screenshots I've seen is dead flat or has those far too smooth hills like in all 3d games. CMx1's jagged elevations were cool in that respect because they often ended up looking like rough ridges and gullies instead of perfectly smoothed out mathematical functions. Where are the famous elevation changes the engine is capable of, like ditches and piles of rubble and berms?

[undead reindeer cavalry]

i'm more concerned about all that open space. i want narrower streets, less space between buildings and a lot more small terrain objects that offer cover and concealment.

[Battlefront.com]

Uhm... a couple of quickly made screenshots in an early Beta does not fully show off anything. How unfair to expect that it would.

Hoolaman

Even CMBO had equal or better suspension of disbelief I think

See an eye doctor, because there isn't anything we can do for ya

And everything in all the CMSF screenshots I've seen is dead flat or has those far too smooth hills like in all 3d games.

Yeah, in complete contrast to the chaotically laid out, massively hilly, clausterphobic conditions actually found in places like that picture you posted. Note the sarcasim.

Look, if you are going to slam a couple of screenshots for not looking realistic, at least don't post a picture that shows the same sort of environment as the screenshot your slamming. I'd take your criticism more seriously if you did.

Now on a serious note, I will stress again how little you've seen of what the engine can do. Just because you haven't seen it doesn't mean it can't do it. In fact, the very first urban map ever built (by myself) was built on the side of a 200m high hill with uneven slope. So why haven't we posted something like that yet? Because we didn't. Perhaps next time we will.

Oh, and yes... all the graphics are getting a "dirt over". The CMx1 graphics started out nice and clean too. In fact, check out the early Stryker shots and compare it against the currnet ones to see what I mean.

Steve

[ January 31, 2007, 08:28 PM: Message edited by: Battlefront.com ]

[hoolaman]

I know it is very early days and I expect it all to look much better, all the same I thought I might add my comments since my view seems to be in the minority.

The reason I posted the photo was to provide something like a real-life version of the in-game terrain I was referring to. Doing otherwise would be comparing apples to pears. By comparison to the game screens, I think the photo is pretty messy and chaotic.

I don't really need brilliant graphics like an FPS, but when I talk about suspension of disbelief, I am talking about a good cohesive overall impression. That is why I think in *some* ways the CMx1 terrain looks better. I dont think the CMSF shots I've seen have "it", whatever that may be.

I look forward to seeing screens of sidewalks that look like sloping mounds of dirt, small ditches by the roads, really broken looking rocky hillsides, houses that are staggered distances from the street, non-identical trees, broken and bent mud-brick walls and gutters, dirt, rubbish etc. etc. etc.

Oh, and I am actually looking forward to this game, I'm not just here to knock.

[Sgabuzzino]

If there aren't paintings of semi-naked bodybuilders as in MikeyD's photo, then I am not playing.

[M1A1TC]

So, any new screenshots?

Has that nasty shadow glitch been fixed?