Annual look at the year to come - 2023

[Battlefront.com]

46 minutes ago, Rooks And Kings said:

This is what I suspected the issue was, and I completely understand this. There's no real way to navigate that and I won't pretend to understand the inner workings of your business or contracts. I will say that on my side there was a similar situation, and it was spun as a PR positive "In collaboration with XYZ" and a conversation was had that was positive on both sides.

This is an inherent problem with a manufacturer (which is what software developers are) offering different tiers of products.  People tend to understand it for the most part, though they might gripe about the details.  "I don't mind paying more for X, but not THAT much more!" is a common one.

Software developers, however, have a fairly unique situation in that the value of the product is more-or-less intellectual and not physical.  If I purchase a lower end model of car I understand that it comes without features that the higher end model has, I also understand that is the way it will remain.  Software customers, however, don't see it this way.  They think that if they buy Product A and Product B comes out with something new then they should get that something as well.  Usually they want it for free.

Combat Mission is in a very small class of games where all innovations implemented for one game eventually become available for all games, often for free and sometimes for a nominal amount of money ($10 or less).  There are some rare exceptions, but by and large if we do something for one game everybody gets it.  This often gets overlooked as an inconvenient fact when complaining about how we do things.

CM2 Pro is, however, a different product line.  We have moved some things from Pro to Com (commercial), but not the big things.  It will remain that way for now, at least.

46 minutes ago, Rooks And Kings said:

I never questioned your business strategy/model. There's a reason you're still here after two decades. 

Just some food for thought is all I wanted to approach you with. I think the net positives (Pro Clients willing) far outweigh the negatives and could help shift the momentum in a positive way towards the future. 

We think the momentum is going in the right direction already, though I do agree that "more" tends to be "better" from a momentum standpoint.

There may come a time when we can provide Playback to CM2 customers and not disrupt the need to keep Pro separate from Com.  Since I can't say that will happen for sure, nor when it might be possible, it is best to not set people's expectations it will be.

46 minutes ago, Rooks And Kings said:

One thing to keep in mind is that a lot of the feedback you hear is from a sample size on the forums. There are communities out there with hundreds of people on the new social platforms that aren't represented as well on the forums.

Yup, there are a lot of other discussions going on out there.  Always have been, though they were in similar formats as this one.  We rely upon our customers here bringing information back and forth so that the discussions here represent the broader perspective.  It's the best way as it is impractical for us to keep up with everything that is being discussed.

Steve

[Bulletpoint]

39 minutes ago, Battlefront.com said:

Oh, no worries.  Part of the reason why we keep doing what we do is we understand what's really going on with people.  Years ago I summed up our typical customer:

"Your game sucks!  How do I know this?  Because I've bought and played every release you've ever put out.  I've put in 1000s of hours of gametime.  That's how I know it sucks!"

I don't know what kind of emails you're getting from people, but I can't really recognise that "typical customer" from this forum at least. Maybe I saw someone like that post once or twice in ten years.

On the contrary, I think the people I see here are generally quite polite and constructive, and with a lot of knowledge about history. Many have a military background and often work in highly technical careers.

What I do see here are a lot of suggestions, polite requests, and bug reports. Sometimes frustration that important issues can take a very long time to get patched. And I also see some very creative and talented people spending countless hours on scenario design and modding to improve any part of the game they are able to improve.

But despite this, I'm also getting the impression that Battlefront in general feels under perpetual siege by completely unreasonable and childish customers who don't know what they actually really want.

It's really puzzling to me why there seems to be this gap between what I read on the forums and the messaging back to the players.

Also, I'm puzzled about the priorities of Battlefront. If I understand correctly, it seems you have now spent around a whole year trying to program some kind of PBEM tournament system. In all the years I've been on this forum, I must have read hundreds of ideas people had about things they'd like to see in the game. But I've never seen anyone ask for an automated tournament system.

As someone who has spent many hundreds of hours on your games, I can say for sure they don't 'suck'. I don't have time to play games that suck. There's just a lot of things that could be improved a lot. And that's why I stopped buying them after buying only two titles. It has very little to do with the price point and it was not to make some kind of big statement. But it was very influenced by not seeing the game move forward in a more fundamental way.

Personally I'd be fine with it if my own little list of pet peeves, suggestions, and ideas are never implemented, if it at least means some of the other good ideas that other people have put forward are. Nobody's asking for the moon on a stick here, just some kind of progress in some area would be nice.

[Battlefront.com]

3 minutes ago, Redwolf said:

Ugh. Using a CSV file is really the worst of all worlds. No external validation at all. I am surprised Charles agreed to that. Must have been a support nightmare.

It would be if more than a few people were using this feature.  We have different tiers within Pro and this is a feature restricted to the highest tier.  Fight Club does not have access to this, neither do students.  This frees us up from having to make everything "child proof".

There is an external validator because whatever errors could be made in CSV could also be made in any other format.  This feature has been in use for a couple of years and I don't think we've had a single support request since the initial learning curve days.

Steve

[zmoney]

The main thing I’d like to see is for the game to work with my AMD card. That would be a great starting point lol.

[Rooks And Kings]

3 minutes ago, Battlefront.com said:

It would be if more than a few people were using this feature.  We have different tiers within Pro and this is a feature restricted to the highest tier.  Fight Club does not have access to this, neither do students.  This frees us up from having to make everything "child proof".

There is an external validator because whatever errors could be made in CSV could also be made in any other format.  This feature has been in use for a couple of years and I don't think we've had a single support request since the initial learning curve days.

Steve

This was made using the Fight Club version and I was able to edit the CSV's to recreate light infantry Ukrainians with Javelins and AJAX support against Donovians. 
 

 

[Battlefront.com]

19 minutes ago, Bulletpoint said:

I don't know what kind of emails you're getting from people, but I can't really recognise that "typical customer" from this forum at least. Maybe I saw someone like that post once or twice in ten years.

Look back a few pages and you'll see how CMBS is "unplayable".

19 minutes ago, Bulletpoint said:

On the contrary, I think the people I see here are generally quite polite and constructive, and with a lot of knowledge about history. Many have a military background and often work in highly technical careers.

Absolutely this is the case for the vast majority of our customers.  If it wasn't I think I'd rather spend my time bagging groceries or driving for a ride sharing company.

19 minutes ago, Bulletpoint said:

But despite this, I'm also getting the impression that Battlefront in general feels under perpetual siege by completely unreasonable and childish customers who don't know what they actually really want.

We are under perpetual siege to do more than we can possibly do.  Even the non-childish customers have wants, desires, and even expectations that we can't deliver on.  Either specifically or in total.

19 minutes ago, Bulletpoint said:

Also, I'm puzzled about the priorities of Battlefront. If I understand correctly, it seems you have now spent around a whole year trying to program some kind of PBEM tournament system. In all the years I've been on this forum, I must have read hundreds of ideas people had about things they'd like to see in the game. But I've never seen anyone ask for an automated tournament system.

Oh, there's been requests for sure.  Some people even went out and made external tools to help with PBEM or set up tournaments on their own.  Majority?  No, I think not for out customer base.  But we developed these features for Slitherine's customer base.  A much larger base with some differences in expectations.

19 minutes ago, Bulletpoint said:

Personally I'd be fine with it if my own little list of pet peeves, suggestions, and ideas are never implemented, if it at least means some of the other good ideas that other people have put forward are. Nobody's asking for the moon on a stick here, just some kind of progress in some area would be nice.

Yeah, after all of what you said you then ended on the very sentiment I've been talking about.  "some kind of progress in some area would be nice" sure does sound to me like "what you've done for us isn't enough and what you say you're going to do isn't what I want, therefore I'm not happy".

So yes, whether you know it or not you are asking for the moon, or at least a piece of it.  You are certainly doing it more politely than some (you are Danish, so you have a cultural advantage!), but the sentiment is still there.

As I've said, I don't have a problem with this.  As the saying goes, it comes with the gig.  If I didn't like it I'd be a fool for spending my life making games. 

Steve

[Battlefront.com]

12 minutes ago, Rooks And Kings said:

This was made using the Fight Club version and I was able to edit the CSV's to recreate light infantry Ukrainians with Javelins and AJAX support against Donovians. 
 

 

Ah, well, you aren't supposed to be able to do that.  Consider it a "bug" (sorta) that we are aware of but wasn't sure if you were.  Not surprised someone figured it out.  In fact, I think that's how we found out about it

There are other CSV related functions which you don't have access to.  I'll leave it at that.

Steve

[Rooks And Kings]

Just now, Battlefront.com said:

Ah, well, you aren't supposed to be able to do that.  Consider it a "bug" (sorta) that we are aware of but wasn't sure if you were.  Not surprised someone figured it out.  In fact, I think that' show we found out about it

There are other CSV related functions which you don't have access to.  I'll leave it at that.

Steve

Fair enough! Happy to help if it was a bug Took some trial and error but once you understand how it works the CSV is a really simple process. Don't have any negative feedback about it. 

[Centurian52]

On 1/30/2023 at 11:47 AM, Battlefront.com said:

Yes to BAOR, no to BOAR

Woohoo!!

[Battlefront.com]

2 minutes ago, Rooks And Kings said:

Fair enough! Happy to help if it was a bug Took some trial and error but once you understand how it works the CSV is a really simple process. Don't have any negative feedback about it. 

Yeah, I'm trying to remember how it got out with that tier of license.  It was set up almost two years ago so the details are fuzzy.  I think we wound up deciding to leave it in because we saw the value for Fight Club (the only user of this particular license type) and Fight Club is something we value.

The whole concept of tiers within CM2 Pro is a learning experience for us.  New features, new customers, new needs... constant evaluation and reevaluation comes along with that.

Steve

[Rooks And Kings]

Just now, Battlefront.com said:

Yeah, I'm trying to remember how it got out with that tier of license.  It was set up almost two years ago so the details are fuzzy.  I think we wound up deciding to leave it in because we saw the value for Fight Club (the only user of this particular license type) and Fight Club is something we value.

The whole concept of tiers within CM2 Pro is a learning experience for us.  New features, new customers, new needs... constant evaluation and reevaluation comes along with that.

Steve

Sure, if you need me to look at anything specific in this latest batch let me know and I can get back to you with details on it.

[Battlefront.com]

13 minutes ago, Rooks And Kings said:

Sure, if you need me to look at anything specific in this latest batch let me know and I can get back to you with details on it.

Heh... now that I figured out who you are, I can safely say you have all the back channels to me that exist.  Even in person, as it turns out.  That puts you in a very special, elite, super small club as I don't get out much

Steve

[Rooks And Kings]

4 minutes ago, Battlefront.com said:

Heh... now that I figured out who you are, I can safely say you have all the back channels to me that exist.  Even in person, as it turns out.  That puts you in a very special, elite, super small club as I don't get out much

Steve

Hope to see you again this year!

[Simcoe]

50 minutes ago, Centurian52 said:

Perhaps, but that doesn't really bother me. I think balance is seriously overrated anyway. I know I may be in the minority, but I tend to prefer realism at all costs, even if that results in extremely unbalanced scenarios (learning to keep your force alive while retreating in the face of a superior enemy, or rapidly exploit in the face of an inferior enemy, are just as important as learning to go toe to toe with an equal enemy as far as I'm concerned).

I am excited by the prospect of a timeline expansion. Honestly I was content with the timeframe we had, and was just looking forward to more forces getting added in (really looking forward to the West Germans and British in particular). But if we get a timeline expansion in addition to new forces then that's even better. Later variants of the Abrams, such as the M1IP or perhaps even the M1A1. And while all of those naked T-64/72/80s that we've currently got are fine, there is just something about the late 80s versions of those tanks which are buried in ERA bricks that really does it for me.

I grew up on WiC, so it is that late 80s WW3 scenario that I find the most fascinating (nothing gets me pumped up for some Cold War era combat quite like those WiC cutscenes). I always knew that WiC wasn't all that realistic, so I've always been curious about how a NATO vs WP showdown would actually go down in that period. And if it turns out that the Soviets perform poorly in that period, then so be it. At least my curiosity will be satisfied.

I’m going to get the new module regardless but try a PBEM with a Soviet battalion using their best weaponry in 1982 vs Abrams and Bradley’s. If you’re playing the Soviets you are not going to have a fun time. 

[Centurian52]

11 minutes ago, Simcoe said:

I’m going to get the new module regardless but try a PBEM with a Soviet battalion using their best weaponry in 1982 vs Abrams and Bradley’s. If you’re playing the Soviets you are not going to have a fun time. 

Fair enough. But I don't PBEM. Multiplayer has never been something I've been interested in. It requires coordinating with other people, which is not really the sort of thing I want to do in the limited time I have available for entertainment.

[Artkin]

13 minutes ago, Centurian52 said:

 Multiplayer has never been something I've been interested in. It requires coordinating with other people, which is not really the sort of thing I want to do in the limited time I have available for entertainment.

And this is exactly my issue with MP here. It directly affects me because I have less opponents.

[kohlenklau]

Personally, I just can't get a hard-on for CMCW, CMBS or CMSF2. Oh well. Is there a pill?

WW2 is where my heart is at. I did buy into the "we'll work backwards from 1944" motto.

I am working on a Spanish Blue Division mod "during my spare time"...

I wish BFC the very best in their future. 

 

 

 

 

[Probus]

23 minutes ago, Centurian52 said:

Fair enough. But I don't PBEM. Multiplayer has never been something I've been interested in. It requires coordinating with other people, which is not really the sort of thing I want to do in the limited time I have available for entertainment.

Ah, you’re missing out Centurian. Multiplayer is where it’s at. Well worth the time. In my humble, but correct,  opinion. 

Edited February 1, 2023 by Probus

[laurent 22]

39 minutes ago, Rooks And Kings said:

Hope to see you again this year!

I also "hope to see you this year"!

Sign: your opponent on Matrix/CW tournament 2nd round.

[kohlenklau]

27 minutes ago, Centurian52 said:

But I don't PBEM

Play hotseat against your wife. Offer a reward system of gift cards or you watch the kids. After a while, she'll probably do better than the damn AI.

[SergeantSqook]

2 hours ago, Bulletpoint said:

I don't know what kind of emails you're getting from people, but I can't really recognise that "typical customer" from this forum at least

It's literally you

[kohlenklau]

2 hours ago, Bulletpoint said:

Years ago I summed up our typical customer:

"Your game sucks!  How do I know this?  Because I've bought and played every release you've ever put out.  I've put in 1000s of hours of gametime.  That's how I know it sucks!"

CM has its faults but I love it and enjoy it and it has brought me great entertainment. Thanks guys.

[Simcoe]

1 hour ago, Centurian52 said:

Fair enough. But I don't PBEM. Multiplayer has never been something I've been interested in. It requires coordinating with other people, which is not really the sort of thing I want to do in the limited time I have available for entertainment.

Maybe a better way to say it is you can sit an Abrams/Bradley on a hill and watch it demolish everything on the map before it ever gets a spot with Black Sea and Shock Force 2. Cold War has been great because both forces are very evenly matched in all time periods. 

Happy to be proven wrong though.

[MeatEtr]

4 hours ago, MikeyD said:

The classic example of wanting more was in CMx1, players demanded 'sewer movement'. BFC added it, players played it perhaps 2 times then forgot about it. But while it wasn't in the game it was considered something of vital importance. Sturmtiger in the game? Important when it wasn't in the game, forgotten about when it was.

Oh man I remember that one. What a blast from the past, thanks mikeyD! 

[JoMac]

4 hours ago, kohlenklau said:

Personally, I'm not interested in CMCW, CMBS or CMSF2. Oh well. Is there a pill?

WW2 is where my heart is at. I did buy into the "we'll work backwards from 1944" motto.

I'm with you Mr. K...Only WW2 for me

Edited February 1, 2023 by JoMac