Annual look at the year to come - 2023

[herr_oberst]

On 1/30/2023 at 2:47 PM, Battlefront.com said:

Yes to BAOR, no to BOAR

Steve

Dang... I was hoping the BOARs would be the chink in the armor that finally got us Space Lobsters...

[WimO]

Engine 5 for CMBN?  Hope it will:

1. Allow troops to ride tanks. All Canadian reports both written and verbal direct to me from veterans now deceased, indicates that they did so routinely from D-Day on.

2. Stop trees blocking AT rounds.

3. Allow building fires.

To mention just a very few.

[CarlXII]

1 hour ago, Rooks And Kings said:

Regardless of all the miniscule little complaints that are petty themself, the community as a whole would appreciate this one specific feature more than anything else.

 

I beg to differ ! 

I wan't to PLAY the game...Not watch videos of it. Sure having a replay feature would be nice but there are a ****load of other stuff that i would prefer to see added way, way before any full lenth replay feature...

Better tactical AI, Better AI programing options, Improved scenario editor over all, improved performance, co-op multiplayer, aditional 'in game' gameplay features etc, etc...

Full lenth replay videos comes way, way down on my list...Thats for sure

 

Edited January 31, 2023 by CarlXII

[Rooks And Kings]

2 minutes ago, CarlXII said:

I beg to differ ! 

I wan't to PLAY the game...Not watch videos of it. Sure having a replay feature would be nice but there are a ****load of other stuff that i would prefer to see added way, way before any full lenth replay feature...

Better tactical AI, Better AI programing options, Improved scenario editor over all, improved performance, co-op multiplayer, Adde 'in game' gameplay features etc, etc...

Full lenth replay videos comes way, way down on my list...Thats for sure

 

Everything you listed requires more development time vs. a feature that already exists. I won't argue your priorities though. Fair enough. 

[CarlXII]

1 minute ago, Rooks And Kings said:

Everything you listed requires more development time 

Yepp...that's the sad truth.

Many of us have been waiting to see atleast some of these requested features for years now and by the looks of we will be waiting for many years yet...

sad !

 

 

[Battlefront.com]

2 minutes ago, CarlXII said:

Yepp...that's the sad truth.

Many of us have been waiting to see atleast some of these requested features for years now and by the looks of we will be waiting for many years yet...

sad !

We always get criticized for what we don't do, regardless of what it is.  If you added up all the "I've been waiting for" features put forth on this Forum I doubt we could complete them all in 20 years even with extra help.  It costs little time and no money to imagine what you want, which is why you want more than we can possibly deliver.

It is in a gamer's nature to always want more and to complain when it isn't delivered.  It is also in a gamer's nature to think that his opinion of what our priorities should be is shared by everybody.  Every single time a thread spins out of control into a bitch/want session it reinforces our point that the impossible is asked of us, which is exactly why we fail to deliver upon expectations.

Steve

[CarlXII]

I realice that you guys are a very small company and that there are limits on what you can do with limited manpower and funding but i have to say that its my opinion (and i belive others as well) that  during the last couple of years the consumer side of things might have been put a bit to much on the back bench...

Many, many things are wished for by many people but very few things have been added...

I belive you mentioned that the prioriteis will shift somewhat over to the consumer side ones again...That would be a most welcome shift....

You guys are without question producing the best tactical game avaliable...well done !

We just want it to be even better and have more of it 

 

[MikeyD]

The classic example of wanting more was in CMx1, players demanded 'sewer movement'. BFC added it, players played it perhaps 2 times then forgot about it. But while it wasn't in the game it was considered something of vital importance. Sturmtiger in the game? Important when it wasn't in the game, forgotten about when it was.

[Battlefront.com]

2 hours ago, Rooks And Kings said:

I don't know the technical workings behind it, but having used the replay feature and being a video editor myself while maintaining an active presence in the discord community of over 200+ people who have bought at least one of your titles throughout the years you've been in business I have to disagree with your assessment. 

Fair enough.  There definitely is room for disagreement on part of this topic.

2 hours ago, Rooks And Kings said:

Regardless of all the miniscule little complaints that are petty themself, the community as a whole would appreciate this one specific feature more than anything else.

I wouldn't say "more than anything else", but we certainly do acknowledge that it is right up there at the top of the list.

For those who don't know, the replay feature only works for WeGo.  All other modes of play, including single player RTS, can't access Playback.

2 hours ago, Rooks And Kings said:

Not a single user of Combat Mission: Professional that obtained their license through UK: Fight Club has complained about anything regarding the replay feature. Sure, it's not all sunshine and rainbows and the feature is surely not polished to the standard that you would like to release a finished product in, but as it stands it is more than useable. 

UK: Fight Club is the first sizeable use of Playback, so it is good to hear that it is doing better than we expected.

2 hours ago, Rooks And Kings said:

If there is a contract stipulation on deliverable features that cannot be released to the public, that's one thing. Telling the community on multiple occasions that we think we know what we want, but we really don't is a little rash in my opinion and I mean this with all due respect. 

For sure people know what they want, though sometimes they don't appreciate what they get and demand more.  See previous couple of pages to prove my point.

Releasing it to the general public is, as I did say in one post in this thread, complicated.  We were paid by the Professional community to create the feature.  Turning around and selling it to non-Pro customers is not "right" and could impact our long term relationships with the Pro community.

2 hours ago, Rooks And Kings said:

My final point, is that if the community is going to find things to complain about year after year, regardless of what you do sir, then why not give them this one thing that they've been asking for so you can either; 1) Prove your point that we don't know what we want, or 2) Throw the community a bone that is appreciated. 

First of all, this community NEVER asks for just one thing.  Ever.  This is just a thread where I announced what's coming up and do you see any common complaint about we aren't doing?  Nope, it's all over the road.  Look at the recent posts on Upgrade 5, something I've specifically stated is intended to do performance improvements that people have been looking for.  What comes right after it?  Lists of things not related to performance improvements that people want to see in Upgrade 5.

I've been doing this for 30 years.  I am not stupid or naive.  This is the way our customer base operates.  It's the way pretty much all core gamers behave regardless of the game in question.  Releasing Replay or not won't have any impact.  At best we'll get a quick "thanks" then promptly hear about all the things we haven't done and why we're right bastards for not doing it.

And yet we keep making Combat Mission despite being vastly underpaid for our time and skills.  Fortunately we love doing it too much to take a serious look at our life choices and opt to do something different.  Though when I hear about people I used to work with earning 2-5 times what I make I can't say I don't wonder a little bit.  The two founders of Bungie started out with a wargame and they switched over to something a tad more lucrative.  Not a bad career move as it turned out

2 hours ago, Rooks And Kings said:

Either way, I respect your judgement but as a user of both the Pro and Commercial titles I do not think your assessment of the usage in regards to Replay Feature is accurate. 

Perhaps, perhaps not.  The only way to know for sure is to release it to everybody and then see what happens.  I suspect we might both be right and wrong to some extent.

BTW, thanks for all you do with UK: Fight Club.  Great work going on there.

Steve

[Battlefront.com]

3 minutes ago, MikeyD said:

The classic example of wanting more was in CMx1, players demanded 'sewer movement'. BFC added it, players played it perhaps 2 times then forgot about it. But while it wasn't in the game it was considered something of vital importance. Sturmtiger in the game? Important when it wasn't in the game, forgotten about when it was.

Heh... sewer movement.  Funny, a Pro customer asked about adding that to CM2 sometime late last year and it was the first time I had thought of that feature in probably 10 years.  We agreed to cross that off the list and move on

Steve

[Grey_Fox]

8 minutes ago, Battlefront.com said:

For those who don't know, the replay feature only works for WeGo PBEM.  All other modes of play, including single player, can't access Playback.

It does work in single player on CM Pro because it generate saves for every turn. It doesn't work for real-time.

I want it specifically to make videos of the PBEMs, which always generates saves.

 

Edited January 31, 2023 by Grey_Fox

[JM Stuff]

23 minutes ago, Battlefront.com said:

We always get criticized for what we don't do, regardless of what it is.  If you added up all the "I've been waiting for" features put forth on this Forum I doubt we could complete them all in 20 years even with extra help.  It costs little time and no money to imagine what you want, which is why you want more than we can possibly deliver.

It is in a gamer's nature to always want more and to complain when it isn't delivered.  It is also in a gamer's nature to think that his opinion of what our priorities should be is shared by everybody.  Every single time a thread spins out of control into a bitch/want session it reinforces our point that the impossible is asked of us, which is exactly why we fail to deliver upon expectations.

Steve

Steve dont take all the coments as a critics but only a way that you can make yours games better and better they are already on the top of the chart, and this longtimes ago, a little pep wil be welcome but this we let you decide yourself... give us only some pics from what we will see soon or later to let a last smile on the forum.

Cheers

JM

[Battlefront.com]

3 minutes ago, Grey_Fox said:

It does work in single player on CM Pro because it generate saves for every turn. It doesn't work for real-time.

I want it specifically to make videos of the PBEMs, which always generates saves.

 

Heh... yeah, thanks for correcting me on that just after I edited my post   Sometimes brain and fingers don't communicate properly.

Steve

[Battlefront.com]

4 minutes ago, JM Stuff said:

Steve dont take all the coments as a critics but only a way that you can make yours games better and better they are already on the top of the chart, and this longtimes ago, a little pep wil be welcome but this we let you decide yourself... give us only some pics from what we will see soon or later to let a last smile on the forum.

Cheers

JM

Oh, no worries.  Part of the reason why we keep doing what we do is we understand what's really going on with people.  Years ago I summed up our typical customer:

"Your game sucks!  How do I know this?  Because I've bought and played every release you've ever put out.  I've put in 1000s of hours of gametime.  That's how I know it sucks!"

Steve

[PEB14]

1 minute ago, Battlefront.com said:

Oh, no worries.  Part of the reason why we keep doing what we do is we understand what's really going on with people.  Years ago I summed up our typical customer:

"Your game sucks!  How do I know this?  Because I've bought and played every release you've ever put out.  I've put in 1000s of hours of gametime.  That's how I know it sucks!"

Steve

Nicely said!

[Rooks And Kings]

20 minutes ago, Battlefront.com said:

For those who don't know, the replay feature only works for WeGo PBEM.  All other modes of play, including single player, can't access Playback.

UK: Fight Club is the first sizeable use of Playback, so it is good to hear that it is doing better than we expected.

Not sure which version of CM:Pro this is, and if it's a newer version than what I have access to then I will agree with you. However, in it's current state of the version I have it does work in singleplayer and UK: Fight Club shares replays of their singleplayer missions from the Campaign of Learning to add more analysis to AAR's. 

(Battlefront Edited Statement. Disregard above point)

20 minutes ago, Battlefront.com said:

For sure people know what they want, though sometimes they don't appreciate what they get and demand more.  See previous couple of pages to prove my point.

I will agree with you on this. I understand the rigors of dealing with a community that comes across as ungrateful and whining consistently while continuing to enjoy the products you deliver. 

20 minutes ago, Battlefront.com said:

Releasing it to the general public is, as I did say in one post in this thread, complicated.  We were paid by the Professional community to create the feature.  Turning around and selling it to non-Pro customers is not "right" and could impact our long term relationships with the Pro community.

This is what I suspected the issue was, and I completely understand this. There's no real way to navigate that and I won't pretend to understand the inner workings of your business or contracts. I will say that on my side there was a similar situation, and it was spun as a PR positive "In collaboration with XYZ" and a conversation was had that was positive on both sides. 

This may or may not make sense for you, and again I respect your judgement. 
 

20 minutes ago, Battlefront.com said:

I've been doing this for 30 years.  I am not stupid or naive.  This is the way our customer base operates.  It's the way pretty much all core gamers behave regardless of the game in question.  Releasing Replay or not won't have any impact.  At best we'll get a quick "thanks" then promptly hear about all the things we haven't done and why we're right bastards for not doing it.

And yet we keep making Combat Mission despite being vastly underpaid for our time and skills.  Fortunately we love doing it too much to take a serious look at our life choices and opt to do something different.  Though when I hear about people I used to work with earning 2-5 times what I make I can't say I don't wonder a little bit.  The two founders of Bungie started out with a wargame and they switched over to something a tad more lucrative.  Not a bad career move as it turned out

Perhaps, perhaps not.  The only way to know for sure is to release it to everybody and then see what happens.  I suspect we might both be right and wrong to some extent.

BTW, thanks for all you do with UK: Fight Club.  Great work going on there.

Steve

I never questioned your business strategy/model. There's a reason you're still here after two decades. 

Just some food for thought is all I wanted to approach you with. I think the net positives (Pro Clients willing) far outweigh the negatives and could help shift the momentum in a positive way towards the future. 

One thing to keep in mind is that a lot of the feedback you hear is from a sample size on the forums. There are communities out there with hundreds of people on the new social platforms that aren't represented as well on the forums. 

I look forward to the future sir. 

Edited January 31, 2023 by Rooks And Kings
Correcting Response.

[PEB14]

2 hours ago, Vacillator said:

EDIT: (…) I would of course also buy any early war stuff BFC might put up, but I think you've said that's unlikely?

So would I.

ANY !

North Africa, East Africa, Poland, France, Greece, Barbarossa, Stalingrad, Finland, Norway, Spanish Civil War…

All of them !

[CarlXII]

12 minutes ago, MikeyD said:

The classic example of wanting more was in CMx1, players demanded 'sewer movement'. BFC added it, players played it perhaps 2 times then forgot about it. But while it wasn't in the game it was considered something of vital importance. Sturmtiger in the game? Important when it wasn't in the game, forgotten about when it was.

We might very well be a hopeless crowd  continuesly asking for more stuff...But honestly not even you guys could considder the game to have evolved much in the last few years....Can you ?

Sure we have gotten a few patches adressing various things (primarely bugs) and some minor additional features to the editor like area fire, facing  and reverse....Those are very nice features and well needed but its hardly a massive addition to the game...

I might be forgetting something but those are the add-ons i can think of...

And Steam offcourse...

 

 

 

 

[Probus]

Too bad you can’t Kickstarter feature requests a la cart. E.g.

Replay feature $20,000.00

BAOR $5,000.00

BOAR Space Lobsters $20,000.00

Sewer Movement $2.00

EDIT: Actually… I’d back the Space Lobsters!

Edited January 31, 2023 by Probus

[Battlefront.com]

59 minutes ago, CarlXII said:

I realice that you guys are a very small company and that there are limits on what you can do with limited manpower and funding but i have to say that its my opinion (and i belive others as well) that  during the last couple of years the consumer side of things might have been put a bit to much on the back bench...

Many, many things are wished for by many people but very few things have been added...

I belive you mentioned that the prioriteis will shift somewhat over to the consumer side ones again...That would be a most welcome shift....
 

This gets at the heart of the problem we have.  For priorities our customers break down into three rough groups:

1. concentrate on content.  "What's the point of all these great features if I can't play the battles I want to play"
2. concentrate on features. "What's the point of all this great content if I'm not seeing the game features I want"
3. do everything.  "What's the point of not being able to have cake AND eat it too!"

Within each there are factions, sometimes quite hostile to each other.  For content some are passionate about WW2 and don't want us to make any more Modern content.  Modern guys are equally passionate and could care less about doing more WW2 stuff.  Others think we should focus on obscure time frames and theaters.  Then within each of these subgroups there's deep disagreements.  Watch what happens when a pro-WW2 content guy suggests we should do more Western Front stuff or North Africa because "the Eastern Front is boring". And for the features guys, except instead of a dozen or so viable fronts/wars to focus on, there's a million game suggestions.  Then the guys that want it all.

Years ago we were criticized for spending too much time on features at the expense of content.  We disagreed because we felt the engine needed more work and people underappreciated the difficulties of switching time periods or even fronts.  This pleased one group and disappointed the others.  A couple of years ago we decided to shift towards making more content.  This has pleased a different group and disappointed the others.

So that's where we're at now.  Will we shift back to features?  Yes, we will.  But not this year.

59 minutes ago, CarlXII said:

You guys are without question producing the best tactical game avaliable...well done !

We just want it to be even better and have more of it 

 

Thanks

Steve

[Rooks And Kings]

13 minutes ago, Battlefront.com said:

This gets at the heart of the problem we have.  For priorities our customers break down into three rough groups:

1. concentrate on content.  "What's the point of all these great features if I can't play the battles I want to play"
2. concentrate on features. "What's the point of all this great content if I'm not seeing the game features I want"
3. do everything.  "What's the point of not being able to have cake AND eat it too!"

Within each there are factions, sometimes quite hostile to each other.  For content some are passionate about WW2 and don't want us to make any more Modern content.  Modern guys are equally passionate and could care less about doing more WW2 stuff.  Others think we should focus on obscure time frames and theaters.  Then within each of these subgroups there's deep disagreements.  Watch what happens when a pro-WW2 content guy suggests we should do more Western Front stuff or North Africa because "the Eastern Front is boring". And for the features guys, except instead of a dozen or so viable fronts/wars to focus on, there's a million game suggestions.  Then the guys that want it all.

Years ago we were criticized for spending too much time on features at the expense of content.  We disagreed because we felt the engine needed more work and people underappreciated the difficulties of switching time periods or even fronts.  This pleased one group and disappointed the others.  A couple of years ago we decided to shift towards making more content.  This has pleased a different group and disappointed the others.

So that's where we're at now.  Will we shift back to features?  Yes, we will.  But not this year.

Thanks

Steve

I would be willing to vet people within the community and submit actual feedback and data in an organized effort to beta test and compare the tradeoffs. 

Edited January 31, 2023 by Rooks And Kings

[sfhand]

Steve, thanks for the update.

[Probus]

8 minutes ago, Battlefront.com said:

Others think we should focus on obscure time frames and theaters. 

I guess I know which category and sub-category I fall into.  

[Centurian52]

On 1/29/2023 at 7:52 PM, Simcoe said:

Thank you for filling us in. Are you able to give more information on the Cold War Module? How much further in time will we go? 1982 is already heavily favored toward the US. I'm worried if we go to 1985 or even 1989 the balance will be even worse. 

Perhaps, but that doesn't really bother me. I think balance is seriously overrated anyway. I know I may be in the minority, but I tend to prefer realism at all costs, even if that results in extremely unbalanced scenarios (learning to keep your force alive while retreating in the face of a superior enemy, or rapidly exploit in the face of an inferior enemy, are just as important as learning to go toe to toe with an equal enemy as far as I'm concerned).

I am excited by the prospect of a timeline expansion. Honestly I was content with the timeframe we had, and was just looking forward to more forces getting added in (really looking forward to the West Germans and British in particular). But if we get a timeline expansion in addition to new forces then that's even better. Later variants of the Abrams, such as the M1IP or perhaps even the M1A1. And while all of those naked T-64/72/80s that we've currently got are fine, there is just something about the late 80s versions of those tanks which are buried in ERA bricks that really does it for me.

I grew up on WiC, so it is that late 80s WW3 scenario that I find the most fascinating (nothing gets me pumped up for some Cold War era combat quite like those WiC cutscenes). I always knew that WiC wasn't all that realistic, so I've always been curious about how a NATO vs WP showdown would actually go down in that period. And if it turns out that the Soviets perform poorly in that period, then so be it. At least my curiosity will be satisfied.

[Redwolf]

3 hours ago, Rooks And Kings said:

ORBATS are edited with .csv files by text. Cannot be done in commercial but it does exist in Pro. 

Ugh. Using a CSV file is really the worst of all worlds. No external validation at all. I am surprised Charles agreed to that. Must have been a support nightmare.