How Hot is Ukraine Gonna Get?

[Machor]

Wagner mercenaries fighting Jewish-led Ukrainian Nazis to preempt the 'Great Replacement' get a helping hand from Tuvans, who have brought along their Shaman:

[Did I forget to take my medication today?]

[panzermartin]

41 minutes ago, Machor said:

In the 2000s, I served in a foot company that had been assigned a single M48A2, complete with the original 90mm gun. The base we were defending had been overrun by the PKK in the 80s, when it was held by only a platoon, and the entire platoon beheaded, so me and many other conscripts were full of fear when we arrived there. When I started pulling guard duty along the base perimeter, I realized the M48 was the cornerstone of our defense: It was in an elevated overwatch position with an LOF over most of the base perimeter and beyond RPG range. It was great to have the 'Cadillac', as the M48 was affectionately called, covering our back.

Conceivably, the M48 could have been swapped for an AIFV, and I assume the AIFV's 25mm autocannon is deadlier for AP work than the 90mm, but I cannot imagine the AIFV acting as the same kind of morale booster. For the conscripts - excepting smart alecks like me - the M48 was a 'tank'; they didn't quite understand what the AIFV was, but they knew it wasn't a 'tank'. 'We have a tank' went a long way for morale. [That should be a W40K rule.] Therefore, fielding the T-62 with conscript formations, as Haiduk wrote, makes perfect sense.

 

Yes, well put . And I can even see those T - 62 even used as indirect fire platforms firing from reverse slopes as Russians seem to be fixated with everything artillery, although precision will definitely suck. 

M48s, I think I served along those too in 2000s or M60s I don't really remember, I was a medic alongside a tank unit. It's a very tall tank, it's size can help with the morale yes, if you are a rookie. Good times though, no war fever in sight back then . Although you probably had a more intense experience. 

 

 

[panzermartin]

Wow, I actually found a ton of info on the T-62, that was also meant to lob HE after all. 

Combined with the gunner's quadrant, the T-62 can conduct indirect fire

https://thesovietarmourblog.blogspot.com/2015/12/t-62.html?m=1

 

[Canada Guy]

Thanks for the info on Italy. Good article Steve and other forum poster's insight. Italy is almost the other side of the moon in Central Canada. We though have so many Ukrainians here, you can't throw a stick without hitting a perogie.

AlsatianFelix, I am amazed you got through the Tooze book. It has been suggested for my Military Book Club but the book has never gotten past the 1st round of voting.

What I am looking forward to is a book in 5 years with some post-war analysis. There are some great authors out there given time and access to this war's unending stream of info.

Edited May 28, 2022 by Canada Guy

[Battlefront.com]

The report from the TD unit, unfortunately, underscores that Ukrainian logistics are overwhelmed by the scope of this conflict.  My guess is that Ukraine has been focusing its logistics resources on the larger active military units (Army, Marines, and NG) at the expense of the TD.  In the areas where the TD's environment is more stable and less hostile they are probably doing better sourcing what they need through the volunteer networks developed since 2014.  But the poor sods stuck at the extremes of the frontline, where local resources and volunteers are scarce, it's not nearly enough.

Ukraine faced a similar problem in 2014, so they should have been better prepared for this situation.  I'm guessing that they, like the Russians, got complacent about some of the lessons learned in 2014/2015.

Hopefully some good will come from these public complaints and the battlefield reversals.  I remember things improving in 2014 when similar problems were brought to light.

Steve

[Kinophile]

7 hours ago, The_Capt said:

  As to Sir John, well he was born a Scot, so that one is on your Emerald Isle.

 

Emerald Isle is Irish Reference. If you're speaking of Scots you really should use the widely accepted anthropological term Land of ****e and Bogs and Innumerable Failed Independence attempts.

Go home, Mac, yer drunk.

 

[Aragorn2002]

On 5/18/2022 at 10:07 PM, Machor said:

Which is why I'm curious about the public opinion in Hungary. For comparison:

Warsaw Pact invasion of Czechoslovakia

Warsaw Pact losses, excluding accidents and 'suicides' (?): 12 Soviets, 2 Bulgarians killed

Czechoslovakian losses: 137 civilians and soldiers killed

Hungarian Revolution of 1956

Soviet losses: 722 killed

Hungarian losses: 2500-3000 fighters & 3000 civilians killed

I've just returned from Budapest and I can assure you most Hungarians hate Putin and the Russians. Most fear the economical consequences for their country. In the West we don't always realize how much countries like Hungary suffered under the Soviet yoke and how much poverty there still is in their country.

[Calamine Waffles]

It's too bad then that their leader seems to tend to act more to Putin's interests.

[Aragorn2002]

10 minutes ago, Calamine Waffles said:

It's too bad then that their leader seems to tend to act more to Putin's interests.

Agreed, but let's not forget Hungary has only been in contact with democracy since a couple of decades. They are bound to make mistakes. Same for the other so-called Visegrad countries. That's one important reason why Eastern Europe musn't be allowed to become dominant in the EU.

Edited May 28, 2022 by Aragorn2002

[Endyamon]

14 minutes ago, Aragorn2002 said:

Agreed, but let's not forget Hungary has only been in contact with democracy since a couple of decades. They are bound to make mistakes. Same for the other so-called Visegrad countries. That's one important reason why Eastern Europe musn't be allowed to become dominant in the EU.

My gf in hungarian. I had time to speak with her about this whole situation in Hungary. Basically, what people fails to understand (me included before talking about it) is that Hungary and Ukraine had alwasy had tensions about ther territories. She showed me video on youtube where hungarian minorities in Ukraine were treated mostly like jews were treated by germans during WWII. The minorities are forbidden to speak hungarian in Ukraine, and there are many cases of rapes and general discrimination. Some years ago also Ukraine threated Hungarian to start a war to regain some hungarian territory that Ukrain thought it was theirs. Also Orban as she told me, was the least harmful leader (or party) than the others. He is a ****, but less than the others.

What I don't understand is why Orban didn't speak publicy about these issues with Ukraine, instead he only went against EU only talking about gas and oil that are needed for Hungary

And hungarians people are helping ukrainians as much as they can, so I hope after this war, both sides will be able to become more friendly and "european"

Edited May 28, 2022 by Endyamon

[Aragorn2002]

16 minutes ago, Endyamon said:

My gf in hungarian. I had time to speak with her about this whole situation in Hungary. Basically, what people fails to understand (me included before talking about it) is that Hungary and Ukraine had alwasy had tensions about ther territories. She showed me video on youtube where hungarian minorities in Ukraine were treated mostly like jews were treated by germans during WWII. The minorities are forbidden to speak hungarian in Ukraine, and there are many cases of rapes and general discrimination. Some years ago also Ukraine threated Hungarian to start a war to regain some hungarian territory that Ukrain thought it was theirs. Also Orban as she told me, was the least harmful leader (or party) than the others. He is a ****, but less than the others.

What I don't understand is why Orban didn't speak publicy about these issues with Ukraine, instead he only went against EU only talking about gas and oil that are needed for Hungary

And hungarians people are helping ukrainians as much as they can, so I hope after this war, both sides will be able to become more friendly and "european"

Well said and thank you for this interesting post.

[Taranis]

"A battalion of Ukrainian soldiers in Lyssytchansk, in the Donbass on May 27, 2022. ADRIEN VAUTIER / LE PICTORIUM POUR “LE MONDE”"

[_Morpheus_]

1 hour ago, Endyamon said:

My gf in hungarian. I had time to speak with her about this whole situation in Hungary. Basically, what people fails to understand (me included before talking about it) is that Hungary and Ukraine had alwasy had tensions about ther territories. She showed me video on youtube where hungarian minorities in Ukraine were treated mostly like jews were treated by germans during WWII. The minorities are forbidden to speak hungarian in Ukraine, and there are many cases of rapes and general discrimination. Some years ago also Ukraine threated Hungarian to start a war to regain some hungarian territory that Ukrain thought it was theirs. Also Orban as she told me, was the least harmful leader (or party) than the others. He is a ****, but less than the others.

What I don't understand is why Orban didn't speak publicy about these issues with Ukraine, instead he only went against EU only talking about gas and oil that are needed for Hungary

And hungarians people are helping ukrainians as much as they can, so I hope after this war, both sides will be able to become more friendly and "european"

Hungary for years gave Hungary passports to the ukrainians in Zakarpattia and talked about `special rights` for this region. From 2014 `special rights`, it's sensitive topic for Ukraine... I hope you understand why. Ukraine executed a lot of military drills on Zakarpattia to warn Hungary that Ukraine will protect the region.
I don't remember `good` relationship with Hungary since long time.

> The minorities are forbidden to speak hungarian in Ukraine, and there are many cases of rapes and general discrimination.
Nobody `forbade` anybody in Ukraine to speak other language. Of course you could find some idiots who will be pissed off about that, but this could happen in any other country.

Edited May 28, 2022 by _Morpheus_

[The_MonkeyKing]

some equipment news: 
Ukraine defense minister states M109 in service.

big news stating US MLRS systems going to Ukraine:

 

[Fernando]

1 hour ago, Endyamon said:

My gf in hungarian. I had time to speak with her about this whole situation in Hungary. Basically, what people fails to understand (me included before talking about it) is that Hungary and Ukraine had alwasy had tensions about ther territories. She showed me video on youtube where hungarian minorities in Ukraine were treated mostly like jews were treated by germans during WWII. The minorities are forbidden to speak hungarian in Ukraine, and there are many cases of rapes and general discrimination. Some years ago also Ukraine threated Hungarian to start a war to regain some hungarian territory that Ukrain thought it was theirs. Also Orban as she told me, was the least harmful leader (or party) than the others. He is a ****, but less than the others.

What I don't understand is why Orban didn't speak publicy about these issues with Ukraine, instead he only went against EU only talking about gas and oil that are needed for Hungary

And hungarians people are helping ukrainians as much as they can, so I hope after this war, both sides will be able to become more friendly and "european"

Hungary was a defeated power in World War I. Almost half of the Hungarian-speaking population ended up in the hands of other countries (such as Romania or Yugoslavia) due to the Trianon treaty. Hungary has always wanted to recover those Hungarian-speaking territories, some of them really unjustly lost, which has always been a source of potential tensions with many of its neighbors except Austria. As a now free country, Ukraine has inherited a part of that problem.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Trianon

Edited May 28, 2022 by Fernando

[Endyamon]

53 minutes ago, _Morpheus_ said:

Hungary for years gave Hungary passports to the ukrainians in Zakarpattia and talked about `special rights` for this region. From 2014 `special rights`, it's sensitive topic for Ukraine... I hope you understand why. Ukraine executed a lot of military drills on Zakarpattia to warn Hungary that Ukraine will protect the region.
I don't remember `good` relationship with Hungary since long time.

> The minorities are forbidden to speak hungarian in Ukraine, and there are many cases of rapes and general discrimination.
Nobody `forbade` anybody in Ukraine to speak other language. Of course you could find some idiots who will be pissed off about that, but this could happen in any other country.

https://www.fuen.org/en/article/What-is-the-current-situation-of-the-Hungarian-minority-in-Ukraine

Well, it's not that minority in general are 100% though. Anyway, I'm just an italian guy, so I cannot judge from here. No nation/party/side is always 100% right. Probably some things are true, some are not. I just report what she told me and what she showed me on youtube

I donated money to the ukrainian red cross and also bought some bundles or games on Steam to help Ukraine. I just want this war to end and that all these tensions in Europe will end

Edited May 28, 2022 by Endyamon

[Endyamon]

3 minutes ago, Fernando said:

Hungary was a defeated power in World War I. Almost half of the Hungarian-speaking population ended up in the hands of other countries (such as Romania or Yugoslavia) due to the Trianon treaty. Hungary has always wanted to recover those Hungarian-speaking territories, some of them really unjustly lost, which has always been a source of potential tensions with many of its neighbors except Austria.

Yes, the "sad" part is that the "boss" was Austria. Hungary didn't have the right to have an army, so all soldiers had to fight for Austria. The Habsburgs declared war, they lost the war and the only country who was torn apart was Hungary.

Anyway, let's go back to speak about war

[Fernando]

2 minutes ago, Endyamon said:

Yes, the "sad" part is that the "boss" was Austria. Hungary didn't have the right to have an army, so all soldiers had to fight for Austria. The Habsburgs declared war, they lost the war and the only country who was torn apart was Hungary.

Anyway, let's go back to speak about war

Hungary had its own government and army in 1914 (the Hungarian Honved was national and separate from the Austrian Landwehr). That is why it was called Austria-Hungary and the dual monarchy, because the monarch was King of Hungary and Emperor of Austria. The origin was the Hungarian rebellion of 1848, which was resolved by giving Hungary the status of a separate kingdom. In this way the Austro-Hungarian empire ended up divided into two parts, the Hungarian and the Austrian. That is why Hungary was treated as a defeated power.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Austria-Hungary

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hungarian_Revolution_of_1848

[poesel]

[Ts4EVER]

Shouldnt Russia be in "lost WW1"?

[poesel]

30 minutes ago, Ts4EVER said:

Shouldnt Russia be in "lost WW1"?

Yes, you are right. I could say I didn't make that diagram but I didn't spot that when I posted it so its still my fault.

[Pete Wenman]

Pretty intense video - infantry combat

 

and the main article here

 

[Taranis]

"
In Lysytchansk, in the Donbass, on May 27, 2022. The car of Ukrainian soldiers, on which we can read the inscription "BMD-4", in reference to the armored combat vehicle of the Russian infantry. ADRIEN VAUTIER / THE PICTORIUM FOR “LE MONDE”"

[Harmon Rabb]

Young love in the middle of a war.

[Hapless]

Not sure if this has popped up here yet: everybody's favourite river crossing.