How Hot is Ukraine Gonna Get?

[Gary R Lukas]

7 hours ago, Aragorn2002 said:

But will 12 PH 2000 (7 from Germany, 5 from the Netherlands) really make that much of a difference. I know they represent tremendous firepower (20 rounds in 2,5 minutes), but not nearly enough to surpress the might of the Russian artillery. On the other hand 240 rounds in 2,5 minutes in a counter battery operation will certainly do some damage.

Those two batteries being on any battlefield in this day and age are defiantly a serious GAME CHANGER for the Ukrainians

[G.I. Joe]

2 hours ago, Haiduk said:

Russian jet dropped a bomb on school building in the village Bilohorivka, Luhansk oblast. 90 villagers, which hadn't time/didn't want to evacuate hide in the basemant of school. Now emergency works ongoing, already 30 people are resqued from the rubbles. 

AP claimed 600 people were killed in Mariupol theater during Russian bombing

 

Horrifying. Glad they've already rescued survivors, I hope there are more...

[Huba]

UK declared a new support package. So what could they send that would be of greatest use? T1 Typhoons would ve great;) 

 

[G.I. Joe]

3 hours ago, Haiduk said:

Some part of our Su-27 were upgraded in previous years to Su-27-1M version with GPS naviagation, +30% radar range at air targets, capability of bomb dropping at coordinates and some other.  

Good to know, thanks for the information. Dropping bombs at coordinates using the aircraft's GPS to precision-drop unguided munitions? Interesting...I wonder if that was used in this strike. Definitely very impressive flying and bombing regardless of whether it was old school techniques or GPS.

2 hours ago, Haiduk said:

Russians already made a statement they specially withdrew from Zmiiny to trap Ukrianian forces - as if Ukrainains bombed the island and then tried to land there troops from three helicopters and landing-assault boat "Stanislav". As if after Ukrainian reacjed the island they were struck, lost Su-24, Su-27, TB2, all helicopters and the boat, so rest of troops evacuated on RHIBs. Also as if Russia hit airfields in Odesa oblast and destroyed remains of UKR aviation.

Well, good "trap", to allow hit couple of own equipment and personnel %) 

Of course, Russian reports should be divided on 10, but there is some hints from our side we also have a losses, but without clarification. Probably one or both jets could be intercepted on the way back.  

Fingers crossed it's a mistake or else they just mean one or both aircraft sustained damage (it looks like the wingman could easily have taken some debris from lead's first hit). Hope the pilots are okay at least...the K-36 ejection seat certainly has an impressive track record in 1990s Russian air show mishaps.

Either way it underscores the point you and @sburke were making a few days ago about the Ghost of Kyiv. Ukraine has far too many real heroes to need an urban legend.

Edited May 8, 2022 by G.I. Joe

[Huba]

2 hours ago, Haiduk said:

Russians already made a statement they specially withdrew from Zmiiny to trap Ukrianian forces - as if Ukrainains bombed the island and then tried to land there troops from three helicopters and landing-assault boat "Stanislav". As if after Ukrainian reacjed the island they were struck, lost Su-24, Su-27, TB2, all helicopters and the boat, so rest of troops evacuated on RHIBs. Also as if Russia hit airfields in Odesa oblast and destroyed remains of UKR aviation.

Well, good "trap", to allow hit couple of own equipment and personnel %) 

Of course, Russian reports should be divided on 10, but there is some hints from our side we also have a losses, but without clarification. Probably one or both jets could be intercepted on the way back.  

A little offtopic, but Zmiiny would literally translate to "Adder", not "Snake", am I right? In Polish it's "Żmija":

Edited May 8, 2022 by Huba

[akd]

What Russia really needs right now is a new Beria:

Also Russia:

Edited May 8, 2022 by akd

[Suleyman]

That's a clever trick, the Ukrainians need to be careful. I got a feeling the RuAF will start committing more strikes since the Russians are gaining some ground around Izium and they captured Popasnaya. I see that the UA is being tactical in their withdrawals, falling back to better positions. Attrition is on the Ukrainian's side for sure.

[benpark]

52 minutes ago, akd said:

 

Epic.

The "drone view" is the signature look for the history books from this war.

Edited May 8, 2022 by benpark

[cesmonkey]

What's the rank of this casualty from South Ossetia?

https://www.e-osetia.ru/news/3384773/pri-ispolnenii-voinskogo-dolga-pogib-zitel-ruo-tedeev-alan

Edited May 8, 2022 by cesmonkey

[OldSarge]

8 minutes ago, cesmonkey said:

What's the rank of this casualty from South Ossetia?

https://www.e-osetia.ru/news/3384773/pri-ispolnenii-voinskogo-dolga-pogib-zitel-ruo-tedeev-alan

Three small stars with a single stripe, looks like a Senior Lieutenant rank.

[Machor]

15 minutes ago, Huba said:

Zmiiny would literally translate to "Adder", not "Snake", am I right? In Polish it's "Żmija"

Nope, but the question led to an interesting observation. So, following etymology:

Polish 'żmija' (adder) = Ukrainian 'змія' (snake) = Russian 'змея́' (snake)

Polish 'wąż' (snake) = Ukrainian 'вуж' (grass snake) = Russian 'уж' (grass snake)

Ukrainian 'гадюка' (adder) = Russian 'гадюка' (adder) = no Polish equivalent

So, the Polish Adam and Eve decided they'll distribute the two Indo-European roots they have for 'snake' to indicate 'snake' and 'poisonous snake', whereas their Ukrainian and Russian counterparts went with 'snake' and 'harmless snake'. At some point, the latter two were nonetheless forced to add 'poisonous snake' to their lexicon as a third item. 

[BornGinger]

48 minutes ago, akd said:

Also Russia:

Although Russia doesn't seem to love "The West" they can't deny the popularity and greatness of Spongebob Squarepants. Spongebob surely seems happy to have been invited to the 9th May day.

Edited May 8, 2022 by BornGinger

[Elmar Bijlsma]

27 minutes ago, akd said:

What Russia really needs right now is a new Beria:

I guess wishing for a new Peter/Catherine the Great is for pussies.

With North Korea, the Taliban, or the Lord's Resistance  Army, I at least understand what disagreeable game is being played. This however, I just cannot place. Don't they know their history? Are they clowning around for ratings? Or are they such monsters that they think Beria's abilities (horrific and counter productive in themselves) outweigh his tendency to fill his rose garden with the bodies of young women? Russia has more than it's fair of brutal dickheads but you'd be hard pressed to find a greater villain. Yet they went with saying that.

Jezus.

[Machor]

Ukrainian M777s in action:

Close-up video of the knocked-out T-90M:

Someone is really intense with his aquarium: 

[danfrodo]

54 minutes ago, akd said:

What Russia really needs right now is a new Beria:

Also Russia:

What I find most interesting here is that state TV is openly concerned about riots.  That is most telling.

[Vanir Ausf B]

16 minutes ago, Machor said:

Ukrainian M777s in action:

Close-up video of the knocked-out T-90M:

There's lot of guys standing around watching. I'd guess this is training.

[akd]

[Battlefront.com]

6 hours ago, Grey_Fox said:

We can already call in arty anywhere on a map during the setup phase of a scenario.

This is off topic here, but...

6 hours ago, Grey_Fox said:

So far it's worked out fine with gentlemen's agreements to not call in arty on spawn zones, or that defender doesn't get to use pre-planned arty, both of which are common and well-adhered to in my experience.

I'm specifically asking if it'd be possible to call in artillery without a TRP on a location which is out of LOS in modern titles in the middle of a scenario.

Again, you are asking for something that is 100% applicable to WW2, so you are asking for this to be present in all games.  Which is fine, but still not going to happen.

In 22+ years of Combat Mission development I can promise you that we've heard every argument for this capability and we have repeatedly debated it and VERY deliberately not added it.  It's not a coding or User Interface issue, it's that we see it being negative for the overall historical accuracy and gameplay experience.

This is not the place to debate it and even if it were the answer is still "no".

Steve

[asurob]

2 hours ago, Machor said:

Ukrainian M777s in action:

Close-up video of the knocked-out T-90M:

Someone is really intense with his aquarium: 

That's top level  trolling

[chuckdyke]

32 minutes ago, Battlefront.com said:

I'm specifically asking if it'd be possible to call in artillery without a TRP on a location which is out of LOS in modern titles in the middle of a scenario.

You can already do that in SF2 as anybody of the blue forces can call in arty. Put on your thinking cap and experiment. My tip is to study IO and apply it in the game. Like @Battlefront.com said it is off topic. Replies won't be answered. IO is Information Operations. 

Edited May 8, 2022 by chuckdyke

[Battlefront.com]

2 hours ago, Elmar Bijlsma said:

With North Korea, the Taliban, or the Lord's Resistance  Army, I at least understand what disagreeable game is being played. This however, I just cannot place. Don't they know their history? Are they clowning around for ratings? Or are they such monsters that they think Beria's abilities (horrific and counter productive in themselves) outweigh his tendency to fill his rose garden with the bodies of young women? Russia has more than it's fair of brutal dickheads but you'd be hard pressed to find a greater villain. Yet they went with saying that.

My guess is these guys are part of the hardline nationalists who have worked to rewrite Soviet history to provide modern Russia with a proud history from which to tie the current regime directly to.  This is akin to social conservatives (of any nation, BTW) creating a very distorted view of their own history to promote themselves.  "Here is our glorious past and only with our leadership and guidance can we again return to better times!"

From my own country this is similar to the movement of social conservatives in the 1970s and 1980s to promote a return to the 1950s "Family Values".  A time, as they argued, when the American family was strong and cohesive.  Never mind that women were expected to be submissive and stay at home.  Never mind that men cheating on their wives was culturally acceptable as long as they didn't get caught.  Never mind that wives and children were systematically abused mentally and/or physically without much recourse.  Never mind that a large portion of the marriages were loveless and the wife stayed only because she felt she had no choice.  Never mind that families that were mixed race or religions were discriminated against, if not outright illegal.  Never mind... well... I think you guys get my point.  In case you don't, movements like Putin are not dissimilar from other hard right movements in pretty much any country out there.

And if any of you are thinking I'm picking on the political right, you are wrong.  Putin's government is Fascist and Fascism is the extreme personification of what is generally classified as "conservatism".  The two are not separable.  In fact, if you look at Putin's government's stance on Russian family you will see that it is nearly identical to the American "Family Values" movement.  That is not a coincidence.

Now, if if Russia was an extreme Socialist (left) state then I'd be talking about how it mimics the hard left movements in other countries.  They rewrite history as well, but not in the same way.  Left extremes tend to spend most of their time envisioning the future instead of dwelling on the past.  Rewriting the past is generally done to justify major change to the status quo.  It is, in no small way, the exact opposite of conservatism.  Which is why it is not applicable to this conversation.

Steve

[chuckdyke]

2 minutes ago, Battlefront.com said:

the hard left movements in other countries. 

If I recall correctly, they were described as useful idiots. 

[Battlefront.com]

4 minutes ago, chuckdyke said:

If I recall correctly, they were described as useful idiots. 

An interesting point about Putin's Russia vs. the old Soviet Union.  The Soviet Union felt that the best way to control the world was to have Communist governments tied together to form a much larger co-dependent confederation.  Putin, on the other hand, really doesn't care what form of government a country has as long as its leadership is corrupt enough that Russia gets what it wants when it wants.  Generally more extreme right or left wing governments are preferable, but that's more a function of those regimes being more easily corruptible rather than some sort of ideological preference.

In a sense, extreme right or left wing governments are "useful idiots" for Russia.

Steve

[dan/california]

29 minutes ago, Battlefront.com said:

This is off topic here, but...

Again, you are asking for something that is 100% applicable to WW2, so you are asking for this to be present in all games.  Which is fine, but still not going to happen.

In 22+ years of Combat Mission development I can promise you that we've heard every argument for this capability and we have repeatedly debated it and VERY deliberately not added it.  It's not a coding or User Interface issue, it's that we see it being negative for the overall historical accuracy and gameplay experience.

This is not the place to debate it and even if it were the answer is still "no".

Steve

Are you ready to start a thread on what the next modern game might look like? In particular, and related to the above, do most scenarios just have to assume that both side unmanned ISR bubbles have more or less annihilated each other in order to have an interesting game? The lesson of the Ukraine War seems to be that if one side has a drone in communication with 155/120mm mortars, and the other side doesn't that pretty much decides a given tactical action right then and there. So to build a decent scenario, either both sides have it, and things play rather quickly, or neither side does. And it is worth pointing out that for the most part neither side in the current war are using drones that are anywhere close to the state of the art. 

https://www.economist.com/science-and-technology/the-spy-in-the-sky-that-sees-backwards-in-time/21809102

There are MUCH better sensor packages out there that to my (limited and public only) knowledge have not been deployed in Ukraine by either side. The Nato strategic level ISR that is being supplied to Ukraine is a different question. But for the most part they are not circling directly over the Donbas and passing intelligence in real time. 

 

[chuckdyke]

6 minutes ago, Battlefront.com said:

Generally more extreme right or left wing governments are preferable,

the two opposing versions of socialism. National Socialism was socialism only for Germany Soviet Socialism was global. It failed because free enterprise-based economies produced better products.