About to be overrun at the 2 Fahrbahns

[CaptainTheDark]

After a few starts on a campaign and feeling overwhelmed (but in a good way), I decided to try learning these units' capabilities by getting overwhelmed faster, 'failing faster' they call it. Instead of agonizing for 10 or 15 minutes over a turn's orders, I'm playing some single battles in RT mode, but saving and even reloading if i reeeeeelly mess up. I'm having fun discovering how they move and shoot, and enjoying the spectacle. Usually I prefer to play turns because I like to watch the action, see the little things hitting each other, and replay it from other angles. All the pretty lights. I miss a lot of that in RT mode, but I think I'm learning more quickly how to maneuver and shoot with these units than I was learning when playing turn-based battles.

I think I'm about to be overrun, at 2 Fahrbahns, but it only took a couple hours instead of days. I'm enjoying this a lot. All the pretty lights. My 5 tanks have smashed about 10 of their AFVs, mostly T72s, using a fat slow 152mm round. Feel like I'm tossing flaming marshmallows at the bears. Sometimes, they hurt the tank. Sometimes, they tickle them. But 3 T72s are passing through their dead pals' smoking wreckage, Lord knows how many more are behind them. They're hitting my tanks and mostly degrading them (like a mobility kill or optics kill) first, missing often but eventually hammering my tank one more time for the kill. Been rolling up to hulldown, shooting, and reversing, held them out to 1500 m so far, at 26:36, but I'm down to one fully crewed tank and one that lost its commander. They all fought bravely. An immobilized tank took out several more and held back a few with great shooting till it finally got the zap.

At this time I finally realize that 2 M150s have arrived. Just about to rush them into position and trying to back my 2 remaining tanks downhill till these TOW carts can rush up to help. No one's come within range of my Dragons. My Redeye guys have taken some shots, and taken some hits. Because it's RT, I didn't see whether they ever downed a plane. All the pretty lights, though.

[Combatintman]

This is one of @MikeyD's scenarios - it was a very early one and typical of the stuff that he seems just to be able to conjure up.  It was the first scenario I tested and it was a whole bunch of fun and delivers that nail biting sense of 'am I going to win this?', despite the map and premise of it all being fairly simple.  I think for those aspiring to dip into scenario designing, his stuff is well worth a look.

[ekobloc]

Took the same approach as you, tried the training campaign first and got my arse handed to me rather quickly, so thought I'd try some quick missions. Managed to get a total victory on Direction Found, quite liked how simple it was and had some echoes of Team Yankee to it... a nice toe dipper.

Coming back to 2 Fahrbahns though – I'm about 10/15 minutes in. M60s in hull down positions on the slopes, so far we've picked off quite a few T72 that are making their way across the plains and I've only lost one of the M60 to a penetrating round right through the gun so basically combat ineffective now. Thought I would try pushing up 2 squads in the M113 to the north woods with the hopes of being able to stick a few LAW in the sides of anything down there. Other 2 squads with the dragon are holding up in the forward buildings, but as you say nothing to shoot at so wondering if that was best placement for them. 

Coming from the WWII titles and this being my first 'modern' title I'm not too clued up on how to make best use of mech. inf. especially in a defence situation so will be interesting to see if this was a bad move on my part  

[mbarbaric]

I'm in the same tank with you  

only advice I can give is to, in general, position the tanks on the flanks and not in the center so they get angled shots. in 2 fahrbans scenario, perhaps one tank in some keyhole position in the center where the tank is protected with buildings. I've tried to push one m113 into the woods to the right flank but that got toasted while travelling. the rest of the infantry and their transport in the forward buildings in the center but on the cover arcs to engage any infantry. tows/laws outside of the buildings, especially to cover the road on the right flank that can't be seen from your initial position due to that woods on the right. APCs in key holes behind those advanced buildings in the center. those, as their infantry, on cover arcs (not longer than 200/300 meters) to protect the open terrain if the enemy manages to slip tank protection and gets that far.

[Megalon Jones]

3 hours ago, ekobloc said:

Coming from the WWII titles and this being my first 'modern' title I'm not too clued up on how to make best use of mech. inf. especially in a defence situation so will be interesting to see if this was a bad move on my part

Use them EXACTLY as you would in the WW2 titles. M113's are just like the M3 halftracks... battle taxis that can become coffins.  Know that the tank isn't the undisputed champ of the battlefield, though.  Infantry now have access to ATGM's and just about anyone can carry a LAW or RPG (think about how the Germans passed out one shot Panzerfausts to as many squad members as possible from 1944 onwards.)

IFV's are slightly different in that both the BMP and the Bradley have the ability to dish it out.  They still lack the armor to shrug off some hits.

1 hour ago, mbarbaric said:

I'm in the same tank with you  

only advice I can give is to, in general, position the tanks on the flanks and not in the center so they get angled shots. in 2 fahrbans scenario, perhaps one tank in some keyhole position in the center where the tank is protected with buildings. I've tried to push one m113 into the woods to the right flank but that got toasted while travelling. the rest of the infantry and their transport in the forward buildings in the center but on the cover arcs to engage any infantry. tows/laws outside of the buildings, especially to cover the road on the right flank that can't be seen from your initial position due to that woods on the right. APCs in key holes behind those advanced buildings in the center. those, as their infantry, on cover arcs (not longer than 200/300 meters) to protect the open terrain if the enemy manages to slip tank protection and gets that far.

I'm highlighting this.  You have got to get flank shots.  Stick them hull down and watch out for Ivan's arty trying to blind you.  If those T72's gets past your WEZ (weapons employment zone) on the Shillelaghs you are going to have major trouble.  The 152mm shells fired by the Starship are low velocity....bad news for killing tanks.

 

....I'm doing an AAR of this battle on Youtube.  The majority of the action for the scenario is included here.  Part two is imbound and will be more or less a cleanup with general observations.

[ekobloc]

3 hours ago, Megalon Jones said:

Use them EXACTLY as you would in the WW2 titles. M113's are just like the M3 halftracks... battle taxis that can become coffins.  Know that the tank isn't the undisputed champ of the battlefield, though.  Infantry now have access to ATGM's and just about anyone can carry a LAW or RPG (think about how the Germans passed out one shot Panzerfausts to as many squad members as possible from 1944 onwards.)

Thanks, I suspected so but I'm no veteran of the WWII titles, only been playing around a year or so—still learning

As I expected, as soon as I pressed play for the next move what I assume was a T72 round hit a tree and wiped one of the 2 squads entirely. Lesson learned! Managed to get the other one back safely. Will watch your AAR once I'm done to avoid spoilers

Edited May 5, 2021 by ekobloc

[The_Capt]

1 minute ago, ekobloc said:

Thanks, I suspected so but I'm no veteran of the WWII titles, only been playing around a year or so—still learning

As I expected, as soon as I pressed play for the next move what I assume was a T72 round hit a tree and wiped one of the 2 squads entirely. Lesson learned! Managed to get the other one back safely. Will watch your AAR once I'm done to avoid spoilers

Learning through burning is the most fun.

[Green Clutch]

I enjoyed this scenario a lot.

I rushed one of the M60s and a squad of infantry in a M113 up to grab the woods on the right map edge at the beginning and their flanking fire on Soviet forces trying to grab. the central complex was key. The M60s I kept in the center didn't really pull their weight before getting brewed. But the one I had on the far left also did considerable damage. 

That said, without the TOW vehicles arriving the when they did, I would have been over run.

[ekobloc]

9 minutes ago, Green Clutch said:

I enjoyed this scenario a lot.

I rushed one of the M60s and a squad of infantry in a M113 up to grab the woods on the right map edge at the beginning and their flanking fire on Soviet forces trying to grab.

You know I just received the M150s and I was looking at the right flank forest thinking I should have moved or maybe I will still move one of my M60s up there. Already have a M113 squad heading to the forest to try get some sneaky dragon shots off but it may be too late now as the Soviets are at the barns.

I'll redo this one again some time with that in mind. I didn't really plan my defence much more than holding hull-down on the ridges as I didn't intend to complete this scenario this time around and I'm taking a bit of a bruising. Still have all but one M60 firing though so could be worse...

[FogForever]

I deployed 2 tanks on the highest ground on each flank and the platoon leader slightly left of center on high ground.  I was looking for the longest possible ranges to maximize the Shillelagh missiles.   The missiles are much more accurate and more deadly than the M60 main gun regular ammo and the Russians have difficulty hitting at those longer ranges.  So I was hitting and the Russians weren't.  Some Russian tanks managed to close the range but by the end of the battle, I still had one fully functional tank left while the Russians had nothing left.  And nothing Red came close to threatening the autobahn.

After several Cold War battles,  I have the general impression that ATGM missiles are more accurate in CW than Black Sea.  Both games have some of the same ATGM missiles but the Black Sea missiles just don't seem as reliable when it comes to accuracy when compared to CW.  

[MikeyD]

Fun fact, for most of the title's development Shilellagh range was limited to 2000m, the range of the original MGM-51A missile (Its currently firing MGM-51C out to 3000m). So retreating up the hill would've meant the Russians being out of range until until they were 1/4 the way down the map. Event the Russian tanks sitting on the road would've been outside the range of the roadway M60A2s. Giving M60A2 the MGM-51C missile threw off gameplay assumptions a bit.

 

[CaptainTheDark]

Finally got thru it. It was encouraging to know I still had a chance. I'm glad I mentioned it. I sometimes saved every few seconds (this is RT mode, Basic Training level) so that I could go back and see what just happened (as well as cheat like a Time Bandit, sometimes). I didn't even notice one of the aircraft kills my AA troops achieved. The Soviet air support expertly zapped an M150 a minute or two after it arrived on station. That was a dramatic explosion, but I didn't know what had caused it. Was totally absorbed. Still poking through the ashes. Fascinating. Now I'm gonna go back thru some earlier saves and watch some highlights, all the pretty lights.

[scarletto]

Was not expecting the second soviet airstrike, which my AA did not deal with, took out my last tank, in the end the Soviets got one tank onto the fahrbahn, only thing i had left was my aa units.

[ekobloc]

9 hours ago, CaptainTheDark said:

The Soviet air support expertly zapped an M150 a minute or two after it arrived on station.

Good job getting through it and interesting that your M150 got sniped. When they appeared I split them north and south to get hull down positions over the entire length of the map almost, and already had an AA team close enough to them. Think I must have got lucky taking down the air support.

In the end I managed a total victory, with no loss of M60 apart from the one that took a penetrating round to its main gun. I did lose an M113 and a full squad in my rather foolish push up the north flank good scenario! Time to try it from the Red side...

[Holien]

Just finished this mission and good to get my teeth into as a gentle (if painful) learning lesson that M60's are no Uber Tank...

Lost 3 Tanks and a TOW M150. Although the M150 was something I could not avoid...

I watched the beautiful sight of three Red Eyes streak upwards and converge, then a few moments later the not so beautiful Brrrrpppp as some rounds came back into the open top of my newly arrived M150 to devastating effect.

The Ying and the Yang...

For me I just get a big kick out of seeing the Red Eye Missiles streak upwards, like a little kid, yea!!!

Anyway still got a total victory despite my Piss Poor  management of my armour and the loss of three tanks.

Good lesson not to engage the Soviets at range as they seemed to pick me off and my AT missiles went high, short and when they did hit leave dents in those nasty T72 turrets!!!

Did not get any Dragon action so will be learning about those in another scenario.

Thanks for the Scenario MikeyD good job!!! Just think how many folk you are annoying and pleasing at the same time!!!

 

[FogForever]

Quote

Good lesson not to engage the Soviets at range as they seemed to pick me off and my AT missiles went high, short and when they did hit leave dents in those nasty T72 turrets!!!

Interesting.  My shillelagh missiles won the battle.

[Redwolf]

1 hour ago, FogForever said:

Interesting.  My shillelagh missiles won the battle.

I also trusted my missiles and set things up to fight at maximum range. Worked well.

[StieliAlpha]

That's the first scenario I played with CMCW. I just left the M60's in a hull down position in the sunken "Bundesstrasse" and sent an infantry squad forward into the small village in the center. The result: A total US victory after 40 minutes or so. It felt more like a target practice on the shooting range. One M60 killed, two badly damaged and else a M113 killed by an airstrike and some jeeps plus infantry lost to arty. Ah, plus 12 (or something) T72's burning... Only one T72 made it to the small hamlet in the mid field.

 

[Combatintman]

From a Beta test ... but can anyone match this ....

[CaptainTheDark]

[CaptainTheDark]

The editors of Place magazine would like to issue the following redaction to our story of the Battle Of The Two Fahrbahns, appearing in yesterday's issue. Typographical errors were corrected. The Place regrets these errors.
 

Edited May 6, 2021 by CaptainTheDark
The editors of Place magazine are malfeasant miscreants.

[FogForever]

I need to finish off Fleeing Altdorf, which is another good one, and then go back and replay this one as the Russians.  The 901s have thermals but not the M60a2.  Maybe some smoke and some shoot and scoot and close the range and see what happens.

[danfrodo]

I'll be darned, those awful M60A2s actually worked.  I just did a lot of hulldown, shoot & scoot.  Got total V w 16 minutes left.  Lost one tank, 3 dead and 2 wounded.  I suspect this will be high water mark of my CMCW career.  Like hitting homer in first MLB at bat and then striking out for the rest of a short visit to the majors.

[leon_2]

First playthrough i lost 3 tanks and about 8 or 9 men. Total V by Soviet surrender. A very enjoyable scenario. The NTC prepares you good

[Aragorn2002]

On 5/7/2021 at 4:28 AM, danfrodo said:

I'll be darned, those awful M60A2s actually worked.  

They do indeed. I've found them quite effective when deployed on the flanks.