Final Blitzkrieg stream Jan 17

[AttorneyAtWar]

Just incase anyone missed it here is Chris's stream from today!

Enjoy and thanks again Chris!

http://www.twitch.tv/chrisnd

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 17, 2016 by Raptorx7

[MikeyD]

YES! Sturmtiger 3-D shells!

[AttorneyAtWar]

YES! Sturmtiger 3-D shells!

Definitely a highlight

[gnarly]

Can anyone who watched the whole thing summarize anything new not already mentioned in existing threads? 150 minutes is a lot of watching time!

[Cobetco]

summery: gebergjagers have alot of automatic firepower, long 75mm will only tickle a jumbo, flame hetzers are mean in the city, and the KT commander is getting alot of medals. and something in chat about moon nazis. then a mortar half track duel that ends poorly for the americans

[akd]

summery: gebergjagers have alot of automatic firepower

Yeah, this is a mistake, or rather a case of paper TO&Es having nothing to do with reality.  I've put in a request to reduce number of MP40s in favor of rifles across the board, as well as number of MP44s (unless "excellent" equipment quality is selected), but I don't know if it will get addressed before release.

Edited January 21, 2016 by akd

[Ts4EVER]

I hope they didn't make the classic mistake of thinking that the "MP" in an "MP-Zug" in the earlier iterations of that concept refer to the MP40. Cause these always meant the MP44/StG44. There was to my knowledge never a German unit supposed to be equipped with a large number of MP40s "out of the box" and if you look at Ardennes era divisional status report, the number of MP40s is diminished greatly, while the number of StG44s, especially in VG divisions, often approaches thousands. In fact the production of MP40s was cut back significantly by the end of 1944.

 

Some examples from status reports:

183rd Volksgrenadier Division from September 1944
I. Deutsche Waffen
(in Kriegsgliederung nicht eingezeichnet)
6.720 x Karabiner
49 x Zielfernrohrgewehre
765 x Gewehre 43
440 x Gewehrgranat-Gerät
1.230 x Maschinenpistole 44
60 x Maschinenpistole 38/40
1.925 x Pistolen 08/38
120 x Pistolen 7,65

 

363rd Volksgrenadier-Division from December 1944
I. Deutsche Waffen

6.196 x Karabiner
25 x Zielfernrohrgewehre
481 x Gewehre 43
313 x Gewehrgranat-Gerät
910 x Maschinenpistole 44
138 x Maschinenpistole 38/40
13 x Maschinenpistolen (i)
1.538 x Pistolen 08/38

 

246th Volksgrenadier Division from November 1944
I. Deutsche Waffen
6.183 x Karabiner
109 x Zielfernrohrgewehre
208 x Selbstladegewehr 43
230 x Gewehr-Granat-Gerät
143 x Maschinenpistole 38/40
268 x Maschinenpistole 44
1.093 x Pistolen 08
120 x Leuchtpistolen

 

6th Volksgrenadier Division from November 1944
I. Deutsche Waffen

5.059 x Karabiner 98k
1.130 x Karabiner 43
162 x Zielfernrohrgewehre
1.531 x Pistolen
1.042 x Selbstladegewehr
356 x Gewehr-Granat-Gerät
15 x schwere Wurfgerät 41
12 x schwere Granatwerfer

 

Edited January 18, 2016 by Ts4EVER

[snarre]

is that some gind new river terrain type ? because ditch is sou small ? 

[akd]

I hope they didn't make the classic mistake of thinking that the "MP" in an "MP-Zug" in the earlier iterations of that concept refer to the MP40. Cause these always meant the MP44/StG44. There was to my knowledge never a German unit supposed to be equipped with a large number of MP40s "out of the box" and if you look at Ardennes era divisional status report, the number of MP40s is diminished greatly, while the number of StG44s, especially in VG divisions, often approaches thousands. In fact the production of MP40s was cut back significantly by the end of 1944.

 

Some examples from status reports:

183rd Volksgrenadier Division from September 1944
I. Deutsche Waffen
(in Kriegsgliederung nicht eingezeichnet)
6.720 x Karabiner
49 x Zielfernrohrgewehre
765 x Gewehre 43
440 x Gewehrgranat-Gerät
1.230 x Maschinenpistole 44
60 x Maschinenpistole 38/40
1.925 x Pistolen 08/38
120 x Pistolen 7,65

 

363rd Volksgrenadier-Division from December 1944
I. Deutsche Waffen

6.196 x Karabiner
25 x Zielfernrohrgewehre
481 x Gewehre 43
313 x Gewehrgranat-Gerät
910 x Maschinenpistole 44
138 x Maschinenpistole 38/40
13 x Maschinenpistolen (i)
1.538 x Pistolen 08/38

 

246th Volksgrenadier Division from November 1944
I. Deutsche Waffen
6.183 x Karabiner
109 x Zielfernrohrgewehre
208 x Selbstladegewehr 43
230 x Gewehr-Granat-Gerät
143 x Maschinenpistole 38/40
268 x Maschinenpistole 44
1.093 x Pistolen 08
120 x Leuchtpistolen

 

6th Volksgrenadier Division from November 1944
I. Deutsche Waffen

5.059 x Karabiner 98k
1.130 x Karabiner 43
162 x Zielfernrohrgewehre
1.531 x Pistolen
1.042 x Selbstladegewehr
356 x Gewehr-Granat-Gerät
15 x schwere Wurfgerät 41
12 x schwere Granatwerfer

 

No, Volksgrenadier Battalion and VG Fusilier Company have 2x Sturm-Zug per company with proportion of MP44s actually held determined by equipment quality.  As you can see above, this reflects the reality that some VG divisions had large number of MP44s, while others had much less (and some none).  If you select "excellent" you will get a TO&E allotment (or nearly so) of MP44s.

The Gebirgs Division 44 organization was enacted in mid-44 based on KStNs issued in March, which remained in effect through the end of the war.  I haven't seen anything that indicates whether the MPs listed in these KStN were intended to be MP-40 or MP-44, but they did not include MP / Sturm-Zug like in later KStN for other unit types, and it seems early compared to other orgs to assume that MPs listed were intended to be MP-44.  Perhaps there are some supplementary orders to the KStN out there that make this clear?  But it doesn't really matter because actual status reports show that the Heer Gebirgs divisions didn't have very large numbers of either MP-40 or MP-44.  I agree, however, that if they received larger numbers of automatics late in the war, they were more likely to be MP-44s than MP-40s given the decline in MP-40 production.

The picture for some of the independent battalions and the SS 6. Gebirgs Division "Nord" is less clear.  The author of Lost Battalions: Going for Broke in the Vosges Autumn 1944 implies that the newly raised Gebirgs Batallion 202 was armed with numbers of (defective) MP44s before commitment to the Vosges in October 1944, and some anecdotes suggest that "Nord" had large numbers of automatic weapons as of early 1945.  I haven't seen status reports for these units, so hard to draw firm conclusions.

[lordhedgwich]

Man after using JuJus UI the vanilla UIis just so awful lol Let us pray for swift UI modding

[Ts4EVER]

AKD that is what I meant: before they were renamed to "Sturmzüge" in autumn 1944, they were called "MP-Züge", which lead some games to assume that they were supposed to be equipped with MP40s. There is however no evidence to suggest this, instead one has to conclude by production numbers, pictures and circumstantial evidence that they were always supposed to have MP44s. This was probably also the case for Gebirgsjäger, although if this was ever achieved is a different question altogether.

In fact, to me it seems that there was a bigger shortage of MP40s than of MP44s in the last months of the war, with many sources suggesting that Beretta MPs were substituted instead.

[AttorneyAtWar]

is that some gind new river terrain type ? because ditch is sou small ? 

That is a stream and yes it is new to Final Blitzkrieg.

[akd]

This was probably also the case for Gebirgsjäger, although if this was ever achieved is a different question altogether.

I don't dismiss the possibility, but don't see any firm reason to think that MP-44s were intended.  In fact, the MP allocation in the gebirgsjager KStNs mirrors that found in the December 1943 jagerkompanie / battalion KStNs, which would have been a very early allocation of thousands of MP-43/44 to a division (unprecendented in any other unit.)

In fact, to me it seems that there was a bigger shortage of MP40s than of MP44s in the last months of the war, with many sources suggesting that Beretta MPs were substituted instead.

Yes, MP-40 production lines were turned over to MP44s, while German-controlled factories in Northern Italy started turing out Beretta SMGs for the Wehrmacht.

[Ts4EVER]

I don't dismiss the possibility, but don't see any firm reason to think that MP-44s were intended.  In fact, the MP allocation in the gebirgsjager KStNs mirrors that found in the December 1943 jagerkompanie / battalion KStNs, which would have been a very early allocation of thousands of MP-43/44 to a division (unprecendented in any other unit.)

Actually, it is not unprecedented. These pictures of a ski units were taken in February 1944 and show that there was an effort to mass equip them with MP43s (and G43s, for that matter):

 

This is from a time where the first light infantry units were supposed to get "MP-Züge" and the pictures indicate that this always meant MP43s. Considering that ski units were called "Skijäger" I wouldn't be surprised if they used the December 1943 Jäger kstn or a slight variation.

Edited January 21, 2016 by Ts4EVER

[ChrisND]

That middle picture makes the old sergeant in me want to start yelling at people.

[Combatintman]

That middle picture makes the old sergeant in me want to start yelling at people.

Yeah I agree the guy 2nd from right has sideburns below the middle of the ear ...

[sburke]

Is the guy in the middle picture using his rifle as a bong?  Oh wait no this isn't from Nam.

[LukeFF]

Man after using JuJus UI the vanilla UIis just so awful lol Let us pray for swift UI modding

[Macisle]

Man after using JuJus UI the vanilla UIis just so awful lol Let us pray for swift UI modding

I wouldn't call it "awful" and personal taste plays a part as well. However, I think it can be generally agreed that it does suffer from a missed opportunity in terms of using colored silhouettes for weapons. As we all know, WWII weapons are among the coolest, most "photogenic" pieces of kit in human history. Therefore, there is an expectation that they will be presented in UIs and such in a way that takes advantage of that. Here's a heads-up comparison with Juju's on top and stock at the bottom:

As you can see, Juju's excellent illustrations really add positive impact and satisfy the eye's natural desire to have the coolness of the weapons highlighted in artistic detail.

As for the other elements of the UI, subjective taste comes more into play to varying degrees.

For my part, I'd like to see BF make illustrated weapon (and vehicle, etc.) icons a part of the stock package. I think it would be hard to beat Juju's, so perhaps they could just buy them.

Edited January 24, 2016 by Macisle

[Lille Fiskerby]

About the middle picture :

we had a saying in the danish military in the 80's when on a break :

You may smoke, fart and eat sour candy.

[lordhedgwich]

I wouldn't call it "awful" and personal taste plays a part as well. However, I think it can be generally agreed that it does suffer from a missed opportunity in terms of using colored silhouettes for weapons. As we all know, WWII weapons are among the coolest, most "photogenic" pieces of kit in human history. Therefore, there is an expectation that they will be presented in UIs and such in a way that takes advantage of that. Here's a heads-up comparison with Juju's on top and stock at the bottom:

As you can see, Juju's excellent illustrations really add positive impact and satisfy the eye's natural desire to have the coolness of the weapons highlighted in artistic detail.

As for the other elements of the UI, subjective taste comes more into play to varying degrees.

For my part, I'd like to see BF make illustrated weapon (and vehicle, etc.) icons a part of the stock package. I think it would be hard to beat Juju's, so perhaps they could just buy them.

Well vanilla UI isnt awful compared to other games like Achtung Panzer/Graviteam tactics those games have truly awful UI, but vanilla is awful after you have been playing with JUJUs for so long 

[BLSTK]

Is the guy in the middle picture using his rifle as a bong?  Oh wait no this isn't from Nam.

Too funny, Burkey. He's obviously been smoking something.

I would hasten to add that his colleague has apparently discovered a new form of birth control.

[A Canadian Cat]

It's all fun and games until some on looses a testicle

[womble]

 

It's interesting that JuJu's mod uses flat tone silhouettes of the PFs in that squad, with full colour drawings of the small arms, whereas BF's original has "proper pictures" of the AT assets, and flat tone silhouettes of the small arms. Is there a particular reason JuJu chose a different graphical idiom for the squad's supplementary equipment?

[Vergeltungswaffe]

Can't speak for him, but to me the PF's he uses are much sharper at a glance than the defaults with the fading background so it actually fits better with his weapon silhouettes imho.