AXIS : Gustav Line BETA AAR Round Two - Eye of the Elefant

[Bil Hardenberger]

Hey Phil, I draw the arrow, symbol, whatever (usually by hand using the lasso tool), then apply a drop shadow to that layer.. adjust it for orientation and distance. Usually I give the layer about 50% transparency so you can see the terrain beneath it.

Not sure if you have that capability in your graphics program.

[pnzrldr]

Bil,

Is that in Photoshop or some other program? I want to begin setting the stage for the AARs I would like to do and such pretty scribbling on screenshots will be needed for a quality product. ;-)

[Bil Hardenberger]

Yep, Photoshop. There is a free version running around the internet somewhere.

[sburke]

Yep, Photoshop. There is a free version running around the internet somewhere.

My wife might be distressed to hear that, she works the beta forum for Adobe Japan on photoshop.

[Bil Hardenberger]

Steve Adobe uploaded CS2 for free download themselves. So there is nothing illegal about it.

[sburke]

Steve Adobe uploaded CS2 for free download themselves. So there is nothing illegal about it.

woohoo! I still remember taking her with me on a trip to Shanghai a few years back during a CS release. There were tons of CS manuals on sale at the bookstores, but they actually "sold" very little product in China.

[kohlenklau]

Bil,

dropshadow! OK, thanks, I am a noob and do not have a handle on the vernacular.

I dl'd a free plug-in for the drop-shadow effect for my free paint.NET and here we go.

I think a little better. and this time the little bends I did as separate lines versus pulling the drag point boxes on a single line.

[Michael Emrys]

Yep, Photoshop. There is a free version running around the internet somewhere.

There is also, as I am sure you know, PS Essentials. You have to pay for that, but not nearly as much as the full version, and it does nearly everything the full version does.

Michael

[Bil Hardenberger]

The Twenty-Seventh Minute

I placed my Elefant and a Brummbar in good hull down positions on a ridge in front of the Pz-IV platoon and behind 1st platoon... it did not take long for the Elefant to get a spot and open fire...

First round.. first hit.. penetration...

Kill.

GaJ will not be happy with that result I'm guessing. The M10 never even spotted my Elefant.

[John Kettler]

Bil,

Swatting a fly with a sledgehammer, I see!

I've watched, in awe and admiration, how you run your battle, but I believe there is altogether too little Clausewitzian friction on your side in this clash. You know an awful lot your historical counterpart wouldn't have known. Your fearsome behemoth isn't subject to breakdown and fears little but a lucky hit in a vulnerable spot. Nice screenshot of the wee beastie as it blasts out a present for GreenAsJade

Your fight's so orchestrated that to me it more nearly resembles the Soviet/Russian concept of battle as numbers, norms and nomograms. There is no chaos for you to have to work around or, optimistically, attempt to manage, so it's rather like watching a chess match. Would warfare were so easy to plan and execute!

I'd rate your losses so far (won't specify them) as minor, but his (known losses as seen by you) as smarting. Further, it's easier to locate, target and harm his men because the terrain modeling doesn't provide the right defensive options, for it lacks microrelief, and that's not on you. Of course, we know foxholes are altogether too visible, too. With the kind of firepower you bring to the table, these issues, not to mention beneficial to you detailed hostile unit intel allow you to figure out and unhinge GreenAsJade's defenses much more readily than was historically the case and with far lower ammo expenditure. To me, it seems ridiculously easy for you to find and go after his fixed positions and weapons. Equally, your high velocity weaponry outclasses anything thus far seen on GreenAsJade's end of the battlefield.

I am not at all sure there will be an effective counter for the Elefant in this kind of fight when Gustav Line comes out. Unless the Elephant is attacked by Pheasants when it comes rampaging through. TRPed 155s, naval gunfire and tacair would seem key, too, so be sure to stay close to the coast! So far, the Elefant reminds me of a sniper with a powerful and excellently scoped rifle, who is ensconced behind a thick protective shield. You can dish out punishment while being largely immune to return fire. So, GreenAsJade needs to be lucky and have excellent timing. Of course, he could use harsh language! Hoping for a gun barrel hit is a poor battle plan, right?

Regards,

John Kettler

[Freyberg]

Ouch!! Vivid screen grabs...

[c3k]

^^^

Great pix, and great use of the long gun.

[Wodin]

Hmm..actually I just think Bils is a superb player and well trained tactics..the reason he doesn't suffer chaos is because he plays well.

Your comments belittle how good he is and how versed in tactical warfare he is..he is a tactical wargame Rommel. I could have played this with the same forces and got destroyed with the same tools on hand as Bil has.

Bil,

Swatting a fly with a sledgehammer, I see!

I've watched, in awe and admiration, how you run your battle, but I believe there is altogether too little Clausewitzian friction on your side in this clash. You know an awful lot your historical counterpart wouldn't have known. Your fearsome behemoth isn't subject to breakdown and fears little but a lucky hit in a vulnerable spot. Nice screenshot of the wee beastie as it blasts out a present for GreenAsJade

Your fight's so orchestrated that to me it more nearly resembles the Soviet/Russian concept of battle as numbers, norms and nomograms. There is no chaos for you to have to work around or, optimistically, attempt to manage, so it's rather like watching a chess match. Would warfare were so easy to plan and execute!

I'd rate your losses so far (won't specify them) as minor, but his (known losses as seen by you) as smarting. Further, it's easier to locate, target and harm his men because the terrain modeling doesn't provide the right defensive options, for it lacks microrelief, and that's not on you. Of course, we know foxholes are altogether too visible, too. With the kind of firepower you bring to the table, these issues, not to mention beneficial to you detailed hostile unit intel allow you to figure out and unhinge GreenAsJade's defenses much more readily than was historically the case and with far lower ammo expenditure. To me, it seems ridiculously easy for you to find and go after his fixed positions and weapons. Equally, your high velocity weaponry outclasses anything thus far seen on GreenAsJade's end of the battlefield.

I am not at all sure there will be an effective counter for the Elefant in this kind of fight when Gustav Line comes out. Unless the Elephant is attacked by Pheasants when it comes rampaging through. TRPed 155s, naval gunfire and tacair would seem key, too, so be sure to stay close to the coast! So far, the Elefant reminds me of a sniper with a powerful and excellently scoped rifle, who is ensconced behind a thick protective shield. You can dish out punishment while being largely immune to return fire. So, GreenAsJade needs to be lucky and have excellent timing. Of course, he could use harsh language! Hoping for a gun barrel hit is a poor battle plan, right?

Regards,

John Kettler

[herr_oberst]

The Twenty-Seventh Minute

I placed my Elefant and a Brummbar in good hull down positions on a ridge in front of the Pz-IV platoon and behind 1st platoon... it did not take long for the Elefant to get a spot and open fire...

First round.. first hit.. penetration...

Kill.

GaJ will not be happy with that result I'm guessing. The M10 never even spotted my Elefant.

Nice shooting, but where's the gaping hole on the back side of the turret?

[Bil Hardenberger]

John, you make some valid arguments for sure... but the spotting is a two edged blade... for example I have still not spotted the ATG that fired on the Elefant several turns ago.. even though I have many eyes on that area, and most of GaJ's defenses remain a mystery to me, or simply educated guesses.

As for his fixed defenses.. I really don't have solid spots on the majority of his defenses, Hill 109 of course, but I am focused on that piece of ground so nothing out of the ordinary there. The bunkers... bunkers take a long time to build and in many case were in place for years, so really I see these spots as more confirmation of intelligence rather than a spotting error... foxholes.. yeah you got me there.. but again I could see where the mortar fire was coming from so when my forces focused on that area of course the foxholes were identified. Same on the other side when GaJ displaced his MMG team into the foxholes on the sunken road.... focus attention on one area and of course signs are obvious.. this goes in real life as well. I have spotted no other foxholes than these two.

As for the M10.. I simply took advantage of the fact that GaJ was simply driving that TD back and forth.. it was a matter of time before I spotted him in that area. Those vehicles should really be used from hull down positions. I carefully maneuvered my Elefant and Brummbar into the position they now hold using terrain masking etc.. I doubt GaJ knew they were there until the Elefant opened fire.

So.. some of what you say is true but much of it, well I don't see the issues as serious as you do.

[noob]

You know an awful lot your historical counterpart wouldn't have known.

If you compare CM to reality it falls short in many ways, so don't, regard it as a game, and not a simulation.

Also, long as both players have access to the same type of information, there is no problem IMO.

I am not at all sure there will be an effective counter for the Elefant in this kind of fight when Gustav Line comes out.

If you take away the Elefants support units, a grenade could render it useless.

[Bil Hardenberger]

The Twenty-Eighth Minute

The assault on Hill 109 has made significant progress. Note that my two mounted reserve squads are moving up and so is a two tank section of pz-IVs for fire support if needed.

The halftrack and one team has gone over the ridge into the NAI 4 area (which seems clear) and are taking the MMG team in the flank with fire.

The scout team is within shouting distance of the foxholes that held the mortar team... GaJ's MMG team must be hurting.. haven't heard from them in a while and they have taken a lot of on target mortar rounds.

Notice how deep I have pushed this turn. Hill 109 is almost mine.. a few more turns and I will have it in hand.

1st Platoon in the center recover from their brush with the enemy team. This is interesting.. . this team only had two men... so... where was all the fire coming from that pinned this entire platoon? Not from a two man team that's for sure. I rewatched that turn and I now think GaJ was area firing on this platoon with his AA gun.. the sound was distinctive and it carried on after this enemy team fell. I still can't see it.. nor can I tell where the fire was coming from. Ouch. What I do know however is that the upper elevation squad seemed to have been hit harder and i now think that the one casualty I had in that squad was from that area fire, not the enemy team.

This platoon is now reorienting, staying on the back side of the ridge and overwatching my next target, Hill 126.

On my right 2nd Squad, 3rd platoon bounds forward, spots the enemy sniper I spotted several turns ago but had lost contact with... they engage and kill at least one. I suspect both members have been hit as the icon disappeared at the end of the turn.

This squad will be entering the sunken road from the flank next turn.

Also on my right, I have started resupply of my fire support units... one team resupplied last turn, another mounts this turn, will resupply and exit next turn. I might not need to commit my Pioneer platoon to relieve this platoon. I'm holding off on that for now.

[Vark]

Can you restock grenades? A pet hate of mine in CMSF, given their prodigious use during FIBUA. Do your pioneers carry more grenades? Simulating this http://www.mp44.nl/t/rgb01.jpg

[Bil Hardenberger]

Can you restock grenades? A pet hate of mine in CMSF, given their prodigious use during FIBUA. Do your pioneers carry more grenades? Simulating this http://www.mp44.nl/t/rgb01.jpg

I wish you could. I have never seen grenades when using the Aquire command. My pioneers have satchel charges, not sure how many grenades they carry but I suspect they don't carry more than a normal squad.

[Sublime]

John means well, and his historical knowledge aint bad. However that doesnt exactly translate into excellence at playing CM, and if you even just read his thread titles he's had an extremely hard time playing single player against the AI in CM. I guess my point is he isnt the best person to take tactical gameplay advice from, nor the best person to declare elefants unbeatable in CM. I for one have effectively worked around, or dealt with the 'game breaking' issues he mentions.

Against a human is way different and harder, and it's easy to monday morning quarterback these guys.

[Michael Emrys]

Of course, we know foxholes are altogether too visible, too.

In addition to which, they may not provide historical levels of protection (I haven't made up my mind about that) and the troops are often reluctant to use them; all of which reduces their value in the game.

Michael

[Freyberg]

Real Life is difficult thing to simulate, and CM doesn't model every possibility (I'd like to see purchasable camouflage and a few variations on movement orders, like 'find hulldown', 'spread out' and more area fire/fire splitting commands), but with what it does model, I think it's very realistic.

[Vinnart]

Can you restock grenades?

+ 1 for wishing we could, and as always wishing for more availability of 45cal to be more balanced against the over abundance of 9mm the Germans have for their smg.

[womble]

+ 1 for wishing we could, and as always wishing for more availability of 45cal to be more balanced against the over abundance of 9mm the Germans have for their smg.

Amen to the .45cal thing. Especially in FI. Half tracks don't seem to carry .45 ACP, even when the unit in them has tommy guns. Jeeps carry a whole 100 rounds (and you can almost buy another scout team for the price of a jeep). Resupply boxes, call them trailers, that can be towed around by other vehicles, or just parked in the back lot seem like just another "crew-serverd" unit to get a skin. Give them half a dozen crew spots so big teams can "get on board" to Acquire, but they don't increase troops transport capacity because, like any towed piece, the crew has to be able to mount the prime mover. Such a shame crew served weapons can't have changeable crews like vehicles can.

[Baneman]

...Resupply boxes, call them trailers, that can be towed around by other vehicles, or just parked in the back lot seem like just another "crew-serverd" unit to get a skin. Give them half a dozen crew spots so big teams can "get on board" to Acquire, but they don't increase troops transport capacity because, like any towed piece, the crew has to be able to mount the prime mover. Such a shame crew served weapons can't have changeable crews like vehicles can.

If BF could solve/workout some code to allow vehicles to tow other vehicles, they could redesignate ATG's as vehicles - which would then allow them ( code's already there ) to have dismountable crew AND reverse without turning. Would be Win-Win-Win.

I'm guessing 'towing' code is a bear to make work