AXIS : Gustav Line BETA AAR Round Two - Eye of the Elefant

[Bil Hardenberger]

Fantastic stuff, Bil...the HQ unit rush up to the slopes of Tame seemed a bit ballsy to me...but it's all good when it works! What's your plan for this team?

"Ballsy"? I don't know.. I have prepped for this move for a long time now.. clearing the shoulders of enemy influence (ATG, Tame M10, etc.) I am dropping artillery on the Hill 126 reverse slope and on where I suspect the other ATG is, firing smoke on Tame itself this turn...

I think I had a high percentage chance of success when I ordered this move. My main concern was anything GaJ might have had lurking in the grass on the front slopes and on my approach route... but that was highly unlikely IMO and I probably would have seen a hint of that by now so I rolled the dice.

As for what the plan is for this team moving forward.. well.. that's going to have to be a surprise.

[Bil Hardenberger]

This is a strange sight.. I don't think I've ever seen a crew mixed like this before. Could this be from the SPAA vehicle I spotted last turn? Was it knocked out by a lucky shell burst?

Regardless, obviously they are hunting my lone scout.. they are off the scent a bit.. but if they find him his days are numbered. he only has 15 rounds left, no grenades and he is a long way from help.

After reviewing the images from my turn report and thinking about it I think what I have here is the crew from the M10 that was destroyed in Tame. I noticed that the M10 I killed this turn has individuals with steel pots rather than tanker helmets.. I suspect the guys in the hull have regular tanker uniforms while those in the open turret are dressed as infantry.

I do not think it was the SPAA vehicle as I don't believe any of my rounds have gotten danger close to it... and unless I am mistaken the other tank (M10?) that is on the Hill 126 reverse slope hasn't even had a round come anywhere close to it... of course I only have sound contacts on that vehicle and it could be anywhere.

So there you have it.. the crew from the Tame M10. Interesting that GaJ has placed them in a counter-recon role... or are they simply scouting trying to get a picture of how I am arrayed on the other side of the ridge?

Food for thought.

[John Kettler]

Bil,

You're welcome! There's doubtless more material out there, but that's what I was able to dig up in reasonably short order. That same 749th Tank Battalion piece also talks about those TCs hit by artillery fragments and worse, but I'm not sure that's directly relevant to what we're addressing here. No doubt Tanks For the Memories has more of this kind of material, but I think the real meat is likely to be found in physical books. What's for sure is that I can't do much there, since my pertinent books are in unknown status presently.

As for the battle, it's looking more and more like GreenAsJade should've stayed home. Other than zapping two halftracks, inflicting a few infantry casualties, killing a TC and planting three solid, practically useless hits on the Elefant, that's pretty much all he's done. You, contrariwise, are grinding him to quarks. He seems unable, by and large, to catch a break, which only makes his plight worse. At the rate you're going, you'll have Eichenlaube to go with your Ritterkreuz.

Nor does it hurt that he's stuck with Shot, M79, A.P., which, vs. face-hardened armor, is markedly inferior. At 500 yards, it penetrates 3.2" at 20 degree slope, whereas A.P.C. M62 will pierce 4.5" of face-hardened armor plate. This effectively improves the potency of every full tracked AFV you have, for all have face-hardened armor. Things would be marginally different were you running such AFVs with RHA, since there the M79 performs a bit better (0.4") than the M62A1.

Regards,

John Kettler

[Bil Hardenberger]

Here is the SITMAP for turn 40. Sorry it's been a while since I provided one of these.. its been way overdue. Hope it's helpful.

[Bil Hardenberger]

The Forty First Minute

The other M10 near the ridge road did the long reverse this turn... spotted by a mortar on the Left Tit.. with any luck he'll be able to put a round in the turret next turn.

The kubelwagen has dismounted and will begin to scout the entrance to Tame next turn.

On Hill 126, I have one team that can now see into the area between Hill 126 and Hill 128.. I still cannot spot the ATG that I know must be in this area. Behind that house perhaps? Another team is making its way through the fields towards Tame.. it received no fire from the MG bunker at all.

I am also loading up a few halftracks and will be pushing those towards Tame in the next few turns. My armor on the S-Ridge objective will all re-deploy next turn as well now that the M10 on the ridge road has departed.

1st Platoon in the center loses a halftrack to what I think must have been a rifle grenade. Okay, I have been pushing the armor in this sector forward a little too rashly.. time to dial that back. I can take my time here.. the goal for this platoon is to tie up as many enemy forces as possible and keep them from reinforcing the defenses on the Spur.

Also in 1st platoon's sector an MMG team opens up on the Platoon Leader's halftrack...

...only to receive overwhelming fire in return. The enemy team loses this exchange I'm afraid.

The Spur

I don't have a n image to share, but my two halftracks and one infantry team have finished sweeping the tip of the Spur clear of enemy forces. The last team ran off the position this turn into the valley between the Spur and Hill 153.

The attack force is moving to its jump off positions now, and the Pioneer Platoon will reorganize and mount in 3rd Platoon's halftracks for the assault.. they will be overwatched by the Brummbar, the Jpz-IV and the mortar team.

The Jpz-IV will move into position overwatching the Hill 153 objective and that objective will start to receive some mortar fire starting next turn. I have my other kubelwagen starting a deep scouting run now as well. they will be testing a route to the base of Hill 153.

[Vinnart]

I think GaJ has too much confidence in tall grass as cover. I do not know what else was available for some of the placements for the kills you have got on him like the latest MMG, but most seem to be out in the open in tall grass rather than from better spots like behind trees.

[Bil Hardenberger]

Grass as cover? Surely you mean concealment.

[Michael Emrys]

You haven't heard about the Mark VII armored grass, Bil?

Michael

[Vinnart]

Grass as cover? Surely you mean concealment.

Yes, that is what I mean. He is not using covered positions for some of his ambushes. Concealment alone only goes so far once the ambush is sprung.

[Vark]

I'm wondering if units should be able to have support/heavy weapons automatically dug in, or at least in a shallow shell scape. Looks like GaJ's forces were doing a SPR and wittering away telling funny anecdotes, when they should have been hard at work with the entrenching tools!

[John Kettler]

Vark,

Field scrapes would definitely be an improvement. I read an account from the PTO in which a Marine rifleman's astounded to see a Japanese soldier keep digging while he's shooting at him. The digging becomes frenetic, with earth really flying, as the Japanese attempts to dig his way out of the line of fire. Bang! Thus ended the race. I believe there should be provisions for digging filed scrapes and maybe foxholes during the game.

Regards,

John Kettler

[Vark]

I think in game might be too much, but a unit who has a couple of hours before an assault will have improved their positions. This could be shell scrapes, removal of small trees blocking the LOS of a key holed position, knocking out firing loops etc. If engineering assets were available the unit could be far better prepared. If the defender has to pay for field defences, the attacker has an advantage.

All I'm suggesting is that defenders get an automatic bonus defensive position if it is determined they have had time to prepare. Obviously a hasty attack is another matter.

[Michael Emrys]

If the defender has to pay for field defences, the attacker has an advantage.

So give them a few more points. Foxholes and other defensive works strike me as actually pretty cheap. The trick is to get them to function realistically in the game.

Michael

[pnzrldr]

I tend to agree with John. Any veteran combat infantryman worth his salt will have at least a shallow scrape complete in his first 15 minutes in any location he thinks he might have to stay in beyond a half hour. Most attended to this before their feet, equipment or food. In soft ground you can have a good chest-deep hole in less than an hour and a full fighting position in less than two. "Fox holes" in the game are grossly inadequate, and the lack of viable fortification for infantry, guns and armor seriously overbalances the game in favor of the attacker, especially with the fairly accurate simulation of artillery. Dug in infantry and AT guns and even (less prevalent in WWII than modern times, but still done some historically) tanks are MUCH harder to see/spot (camoflaged), and MUCH harder to suppress or kill than the folks laying around in the tall grass. I know I am preaching to the choir here, but in game it seems to me that foxholes are EASIER to spot than infantry in the open in the same terrain, and that is a major problem. I am hoping that improved defensive and even in-scenario fortification is something we can look forward to in future builds.

[Bil Hardenberger]

Pnzrldr, sounds like a good quest for a young unproven BETA tester. Don't you think?

[Bil Hardenberger]

The Forty Second Minute

On the outskirts of Tame my HQ unit has begun to circle around the village to see/hear what it can before I commit my 2d Platoon to an attack.

As they come close to the edge of a ridge they can hear two vehicles just on the other side.. this is the SPAA and the UI armor (M10?) that were on the rear slope of Hill 126. They have moved this turn... guess my kubelwagen got his attention. I also expect he will totally abandon the hill 126 reverse slope with the majority of any infantry he has back there and also move it to the Tame, S. Maria Infante defenses.

My left side Brummbar is now area firing the location next to the bunker in Tame. Its first shot hits a building which collapses, the second hits just in front and to the side of the bunker's location.

I also have the Elefant with a very narrow covered arc on the bunker's location. It has LOS but no spot to that position. I will now widen that arc as I expect GaJ to bring his tank (or TD) and SPAA into or close to Tame soon.

In the center, 1st Platoon's infantry takes out the team that killed my halftrack last turn. but another halftrack got into trouble against a lone gunman that it could not spot.. even though I knew he was in that general location. Oh well.. I have a one man team that I can mount into this track so it can get it's gun back.

As the pioneer platoon convoys to its assembly area on the Spur ridge, the Jpz IV is already on location and moving into position to overwatch the Hill 153 objective.

Not shown, the kubelwagen on this flank has driven pretty deep into the rear area between the Spur and Hill 153.. it has taken no incoming fire, nor has it spotted anything. I think I have discovered a beautifully covered approach. Next turn will tell whether it can successfully move in to the base of Hill 153 totally safe or not.

This does not happen as often as it should in this game IMO.. the KG commander's halftrack bogs down on the way to the Spur assembly area... the Brummbar bypasses it and continues on. I really don't need the KG commander on location for this assault, but I wanted his MG to help with fire support as well as the C2 advantages of having the HQ close.

[sburke]

Oh man, that driver has got to be sweating. The only vehicle to bog is the commanders? Hey driver, "Russian Front" carry any significance for you?

[Fenris]

Oh man, that driver has got to be sweating. The only vehicle to bog is the commanders? Hey driver, "Russian Front" carry any significance for you?

Just picturing the commander as Col Klink

-F

[pnzrldr]

Try picturing him as the SS guy in "Schindler's List" for a more visceral reaction.

[Bil Hardenberger]

The Forty Third Minute

My Elefant spotted and fired at the Tame Bunker this turn.. two shots two hits.. no noticeable effect. Obviously I am going to have to think of another way to tackle these things.

On Hill 126 my 2d Platoon starts to assemble for their run into Tame. This will include the Pz-IV section that was previously located near Hill 109.

Also supporting the move on Tame is my support group on Hill 109 consisting of 2 HMGs and a mortar team. The second mortar team in this area is moving up to locate on Hill 126 for the assault.

On the Spur - Hill 153 sector my kubelwagen did in fact make the move all the way to the foot of Hill 153 without taking any enemy fire. They wil dismount next turn and start to scout the approach up the hill.

In the lower image you can see the route they took, which seems to be totally masked from anything he has on the Spur and possibly to anything he has on Hill 153 as well. My attack group will use this route as well, then proceed generally up the route outlined by the Phase 2 arrow on the map. This should serve to isolate anything GaJ has on the backside of the Spur. Note where my initial support group will be located. This will shift in stages down into the valley to better enable them to engage the Spur units. This later movement will be coordinated with 3rd Platoon coming over the Spur to add their firepower to the attack from a different direction.

The Jpz IV is in position and will start some area fire preparation on Hill 153 next turn. Also, the Pioneer Platoon has started to leave their trucks for the 3rd Platoon halftracks. This will take a few turns, then they are going over the top.

[Lethaface]

Great updates! I love the sneaky HQ team circling the village screenshot

[c3k]

Mounted armored infantry? Ooh, nice... Will they FAST into SMI and conduct a coup de main? And I'm glad to see that the Elefant has decided to join the fight. 200mm of frontal armor has to be USED to be appreciated...

Nice shots.

Ken

[Bil Hardenberger]

The Forty Fourth Minute

While my lead team starts to investigate Tame the support on Hill 109 start to lay MG fire into the buildings and also starts to fire a smoke screen behind the town.

In other news in this sector my Elefant finally penetrated the bunker.. it takes a casualty but still looks like it is functional.

Beyond Hill 126 my lead team now has eyes on the area where I expected to find the ATG (the one that fired on my Elefant many turns ago).. but alas it is nowhere to be seen. Where can that thing be?

In the center 1st platoon continues to push forward.. well lead by the infantry this time.

While the Jpz-IV and a mortar starts to lay down suppression fire on Hill 153...

...the Pioneer Platoon starts to load up on 3rd platoon's halftracks.

It looks to me like the AI cancelled my artillery mission on the Spur reverse slope even though I still have the spotter in its original position on Hill 130... sigh.. guess I'll need to move without that covering fire. Edit: the mission was not cancelled after all. but it is taking a loong time to fall... rounds for this mission are in very short supply so I am adjusting a bit to a) push it deeper into the valley away from my advancing 3rd Platoon (they are moving further into the Spur objective next turn) and in hopes that the replan will shake off the mortar section's lack of commitment and get them to actually fire the damned mission.

First Pioneer units will be moving next turn. Oh, and for the guy who asked several turns ago now how many grenades the Pioneer Squads carry.. they carry on average 17 grenades and several satchel charges. Good shock troops.

[Bil Hardenberger]

The Forty Fifth Minute

Well, it appears GaJ had the ATG gun on the backside of Hill 128 just on the outskirts of Tame. One of my scouting teams finds it as it comes around the base of the hill. It appears as if he expected me to come around through the Hill 126 reverse slope area so it is oriented in the wrong direction to be effective.

At the end of the turn one of my Pz-IVs is at the top of Hill 128 and swinging around to take the gun out next turn.

As my Pz-IV section take up its overwatching position on Hill 128 the lead panzer spots a mortar team that is setting up in the distance.

Meanwhile 2d Platoon begins its mounted approach to the village.

In the center, 1st Platoon's only action comes when its lead two man team gets taken out by a Ranger team lurking in the grass... however GaJ loses that team as well. 1st platoon has taken a lot of casualties.. but they are gradually getting to a point where a breakthrough is imminent on this sector. I can feel it... I am encountering fewer and fewer enemy units in the center.

The pioneer Platoon starts its movement towards Hill 153.. the scouting team from the kubelwagen is working its way up the mountain and has run into no enemy units. I suspect that this rear objective is sparsely manned probably with support units so should be easy pickings if I can get to it before GaJ can reinforce it. My mobility should help.

The bottom image is a nice view showing my two main support units in position ready to take out any enemy encountered on the Hill 153 objective.

[PanzerMiller]

Bil,

Nice work, as always -- with your pixeltruppen and with Photoshop.

So GaJ's ATG didn't appear to spot your scout team when it set its eyes on the gun?