Brand New Player, where do I start?

[Thundersnow]

Greetings! Thank you for taking the time to read this!

So, I came across the great Armchair General video series and was immediately hooked.

I'm hoping you guys can save me some time and put me on the right path to play the Combat Mission series. I have some questions.

Do they still sell the older Combat Mission games? Where?

Where should I start with the newer games?

Do I need the 2.0 version?

I heard there was a 300 page manual. Is it worth it to purchase the physical copy or is that just a disc?

Anything I should absolutely know before I dive headfirst into the series?

How strong is the multiplayer presence? Is the majority in a certain game?

Is there a "Must Have" mod for a particular game?

Thanks for any information you can provide! Looking forward to seeing you on the battlefield!

[Pete Wenman]

Others will be along shortly to provide lots of detail, but as a start get hold of and play the demos

CMBN

http://www.battlefront.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1889&Itemid=318

CMFI

http://www.battlefront.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=2028&Itemid=318

HTH

P

[agusto]

Welcome! The Armchair General tactics tutorial is already a great start.

Q: Do they still sell the older Combat Mission games? Where?

A: http://www.battlefront.com/index.php?option=com_virtuemart&page=shop.browse&category_id=26&Itemid=26

Q: Where should I start with the newer games?

A: This very much depends on your personal taste for the theatre and if you prefer modern day weapons or older stuff. My personal recommendation would be to get the free demos and see wich you like best.

Q: Do I need the 2.0 version?

A: From a technical point of view: No. Practically though i think that most potential multiplayer opponents have 2.0. I would recommend you to only get 2.0 if you like the base game.

Q: I heard there was a 300 page manual. Is it worth it to purchase the physical copy or is that just a disc?

A: I am sorry, i dont know. I only have the pdf manual.

Q: Anything I should absolutely know before I dive headfirst into the series?

A: CM can be kinda addictive. Also, be aware of these two pages that have hundereds of mods:

http://cmmods.greenasjade.net/

http://www.battlefront.com/index.php?option=com_remository&Itemid=314

Q: How strong is the multiplayer presence? Is the majority in a certain game?

A: I personally dont play MP so i dont know for sure, but judging by the forum activity, i would say CMBN has the strongest MP scene.

Q: Is there a "Must Have" mod for a particular game?

A: All of Aris' HD textures/special effects for CMBN/CMFI. Euroscape is also a great mod for CMSF. You find all of them at the Repository.

[c3k]

^^^

All very good points. If you enjoy the demo's, go with v2.0 of CMBN and/or CMFI. (CMFI v1 is the equivalent, in game engine terms, as CMBN v2.)

There are plenty of players available for multiplay. READ the manual. Really. (Multiplay is usually done via pbem turns. Dropbox is the 'preferred' method for swapping turns. Find the H2HH program listed in this forum. An individual, hugely talented, made it for the community. It REALLY helps keep many simultaneous pbem games sorted out.)

Now, just jump in and get on with it!

Ken

[Nelson 1812]

Always good to join some of the clubs out there:

Few Good Men: http://www.thefewgoodmen.com/

Band of Brothers:http://webandofbrothers.yuku.com/

and the Blitz....

Most will play with the latest version of CM:BN 2.01 though.

[Lt Belenko]

Just want to add:

The demos ARE the actual game with very few scenarios. Quick battles and other user developed scenarios give the game plenty of variety and can only be played with purchased game.

Some folks play agin the computer machine, some play in clubs - taking on all challengers. I play against my original Panzer Blitz opponent from high school. We graduated in 1975.

[Agua]

All good advice above. Personally, I haven't touched any over the older iterations of CM since CMBN, but CMBO/BB/AK kept many of us going for many many years so I couldn't say those older games wouldn't be worth your time, but the play is so different from CMBN/FI, very little would carry over.

Try the demos, and WELCOME. CM is addictive in the extreme.

[Pak40]

Do they still sell the older Combat Mission games? Where?

Where should I start with the newer games?

Do I need the 2.0 version?

I heard there was a 300 page manual. Is it worth it to purchase the physical copy or is that just a disc?

Anything I should absolutely know before I dive headfirst into the series?

How strong is the multiplayer presence? Is the majority in a certain game?

Is there a "Must Have" mod for a particular game?

Thanks for any information you can provide! Looking forward to seeing you on the battlefield!

I wouldn't bother with the older games. The newer games are better in every respect and there is a learning curve so I would spend the time learning the new system, unless you just have lots of free time to learn both games. And yes, buy the upgrade to 2.0 - it's worth it and most multiplayers will be using it anyway.

I don't think there are any more printed manuals, it's only on PDF from now on. The "Physical Copy" does not include the manual, just a disc and a box.

Advice: take time to read the manual & play the tutorial scenarios while reading the Walk-Thru in the manual. This will save you a lot of headaches.

Print out the manuals if you think it will help - there is a 'printer friendly version' that will look better on paper.

After playing the tutorials, play a couple of battles to get more familiar with the game. Then you'll be ready for a campaign - I suggest Road to Montbourg. It's a huge campaign and is challenging but not overly hard.

You will still have questions as you learn. Search the forums first because usually common questions have been answered a million times on the board.

For Mods, I recommend JuJu's UI - Desktop General Edition 2.0 mod for the user interface. It overhauls all graphics, buttons on the user interface.

The stock sounds aren't very good so get a sound mod such as RealGunsofWar2.0

There are also lots of game graphic mods for the terrain and buildings. Most terrain mods tend to desaturate the vegetation and most building mods offer better looking and more detailed buildings.

[The Steppenwulf]

What I would add to all the great points made above is don't be put off by the apparent lack of polish in the demo and the stock game. The sheer number of community mods and scenarios out there really lift the game onto a higher plane. There's so much that can be enhanced, discovered and created in the game that the demo provides a mere snap shot of the basic game. I now run more collective mod material than the size of the original game, taking me over a year to assemble. And that's not including the maps and scenarios of which I've probably played around a half of what is actually available.

[Wodin]

Download all of Aris mods for starters...

[Thundersnow]

This all sounds great guys thanks!

Btw, how do the campaigns work? Are they linear?

[Erwin]

Campaigns can have branches depending on your choice and also whether you win or lose.

[womble]

The learning curve is pretty challenging. Look in the manual for how to remap the shortcut keys; you might find the default setup unintuitive and difficult to work with.

[Doug Williams]

I don't use any mods, and I think the games (CMBN/CMFI) look great.

If you decide to purchase, I recommend CMBN+CW for starters, with the 2.0 update (probably a bundle now, haven't checked), then patch to 2.01.

Like others said, steep learning curve. Having experience with the older CMBO and sequels doesn't help as much as you might think, because the CM2 engine is very different from the old engine.

Play some scenarios and QBs until you can beat the AI fairly consistently, then you are ready to move on to the real game: PBEM. Although "Play By E-Mail" is a bit of a misnomer these days because almost everyone uses Dropbox for file exchanges. Join a gaming club to find decent opponents who won't drop games, and enjoy! CM isn't a game you play for two weeks then uninstall and throw the box in a rubbermaid container in your basement, it's a game system that you will enjoy for years.

[Lt Belenko]

I use 1 mod. Terrain with grid lines. It helps in determining distances, positioning troops, and also with highlighting slight elevation variances in the landscape.

[Wodin]

Aris vehicle mods are must haves..so are his other misc mods his terrain mod is superb (no more bright green grass)..JuJu's UI mod is great, Mords no music mod. There are some great voice mods for CMBN. The uniforms in Ver2 have improved dramatically and I don't use a mod for that anymore..Ramblers weapon mod. SOme good unit base mods around aswell.

[Doug Williams]

Aris vehicle mods are must haves.

No mods are must haves. The game will play well and look very good without any mods at all.

I applaud our modders, and do plan to install some mods once the base game is stable enough that I don't have to reinstall mods every time a new patch or "update" is released. My CM1 game graphics were highly modded.

With that said, the WW2 CM2 (CMBN/CW and CMFI) graphics are well done and quite sufficient, IMO, to play the game.

[womble]

...plan to install some mods once the base game is stable enough that I don't have to reinstall mods every time a new patch or "update" is released.

It's difficult to know whether that's ever going to be true, the rate BFC are chunking out content at the moment! Which bothers me, personally, not at all, as I could only care a tiny, weeny bit less about mods, but I feel for you guys who want the thing to look as spiffy as some of the screenies show it can be.

With that said, the WW2 CM2 (CMBN/CW and CMFI) graphics are well done and quite sufficient, IMO, to play the game.

The models are better painted than 90% of anything that ever got shoved around a table, that's for sure. Just not as good as something off a prize winning diorama...

[Vanir Ausf B]

No mods are must haves. The game will play well and look very good without any mods at all.

I agree. All my units are stock. I do use Aris's water mod, AKD's sound mod, and most of Veins effects mods but none of them are must-haves.

[Michael Emrys]

All my units are stock.

Same here. I used quite a few mods for CMBO and a few for CMBB, but I haven't modded CMx2 at all. Nothing in it looks so horrible that I am uncomfortable with the way it looks. In fact, I just wish I had a powerful enough system to show off the stock graphics to its best potential.

Michael

[The Steppenwulf]

Perhaps it's a matter of perspective. Having come to CM from other games with some pretty good graphics, slick UI's, award winning audio and having a decent machine that is capable of processing it all, its only natural that I'm interested in CM's community improvements of the stock game. Thus, I can see why, when new players coming to the game from that angle, might well under-appreciate the full beauty of CM particularly when underwhelmed by the graphics of the Demo and most of the youtube videos out there. Indeed, I've had one gaming associate and friend reject CM on this basis and I understand how he came to that rash judgement even if I think it's mistaken.

So how many more potential players do the same without realising that community mods can enhance the game to meet such a higher level of expectation?!? I even suspect that many players will come to CM without being aware that it is moddable - perhaps even what a mod is. Personally, I think it's a major selling point of the game, and like the scenario editor, I wouldn't even be playing now if it weren't for these capabilities.

Clearly some players don't share that perspective but I'll bet my bottom dollar that they are predominantly players who've been playing CM since CM1 days or hex based 2D games etc..

So yes, to mod or not to mod is a matter of taste for sure, but I hate to think that gamers, maybe coming mainly from playing mainstream games -like myself, might not be exposed to a modded graphical rep of the game that can win or keep their attention enough to see what the underlying game engine does.

At which point you're either sold, or you never will be.

[John Kettler]

Thundersnow,

Welcome aboard,

Since I have considerable experience as a newbie, perhaps I can be of service? How's it possible to be an experienced newbie? This occurs when one's normal learning curve keeps getting disrupted by other events, resulting in significant loss of acquired skills for want of practice. Even so, I feel I may able to offer some help.

Here's the link to the chronicle of my painful rise to some small degree of CMBN competence. If you read carefully, you'll save yourself a great deal of grief, starting with the fact that scenarios are alphabetical and not by size. The fewer men in the icon, the smaller and more manageable the battle. The exception would be an armor fight, in which case herding infantry no longer drives the decision, since there are far fewer elements to keep track of in such a fight.

http://www.battlefront.com/community/showthread.php?t=105379&highlight=John+Kettler+versus+CMBN

What we call CMx1 games are wonderful, with CMBO being a post-Normandy through the end toolkit and a having freewheeling style; CMBB models the Eastern Front-Berlin in the same scope, but with MGs made historically nasty, and overly fast and accurate artillery toned down. CMAK (which adds dust effects) covers North Africa, Sicily and Crete. Loads of fun and learning to be had in all the CMx1 games, but these games run abstracted squads and individual vehicles and guns.

CMx2 games (Shock Force, CMBN, CMFI) are altogether different, using a brand new game engine. Individual soldiers, their actions and are statuses depicted, a radically different approach to command is employed, discrete modeling of much that used to be under the hood, an wholly altered approach to handling morale, artillery fire patterns and more is employed. Spotting goes from 8 meter action square to action square, with some real issues that will probably drive you nuts when siting weapons and trying to put fire down on something clearly visible in reality (top of trees under which units are firing, but your FO has no direct LOS), but action spot constrained in game. Also, things like flames and flamethrowers have been temporarily lost, as a result, I believe, of the complex modeling and coding required when operating at such high tactical fidelity. Trenches and foxholes have real issues, because of grid penetration, and bunkers are altogether too easy to spot and are exposed as well. Hard and fast tricks from CMx1, such as how far into a woodline to be, simply don't work that way over here, as many have learned to their sorrow. And woe unto you if you don't learn to stay on top of LOS when running AFVs, for AI in vs AI games, and the AI when players chose to let it run gunnery for their armor, for it can and will thread the needle with amazing shots and kill you. Depression (unless it's player mental variety) and elevation limits still aren't modeled, and there's a raging debate on firing Panzerfausts, Panzerschrecks and bazookas from inside houses and buildings.

The workload and concentration requirements in the CMx2 games are much higher than for the CMx1 games, as most assuredly is the learning curve much steeper and demanding. As you can see from my sig, I do have considerable experience with CMx1, having played in the first such tournaments ever.

It's your call as to what and how many CM games you buy and play, but I'm sure you'll have a ton of fun and learn a lot. The wealth of information on the Forums is incredible, as is the expertise of the contributors. And just wait till you begin fighting live opponents!

Regards,

John Kettler

[mjkerner]

Perhaps it's a matter of perspective. Having come to CM from other games with some pretty good graphics, slick UI's, award winning audio and having a decent machine that is capable of processing it all, its only natural that I'm interested in CM's community improvements of the stock game. Thus, I can see why, when new players coming to the game from that angle, might well under-appreciate the full beauty of CM particularly when underwhelmed by the graphics of the Demo and most of the youtube videos out there. Indeed, I've had one gaming associate and friend reject CM on this basis and I understand how he came to that rash judgement even if I think it's mistaken.

So how many more potential players do the same without realising that community mods can enhance the game to meet such a higher level of expectation?!? I even suspect that many players will come to CM without being aware that it is moddable - perhaps even what a mod is. Personally, I think it's a major selling point of the game, and like the scenario editor, I wouldn't even be playing now if it weren't for these capabilities.

Clearly some players don't share that perspective but I'll bet my bottom dollar that they are predominantly players who've been playing CM since CM1 days or hex based 2D games etc..

So yes, to mod or not to mod is a matter of taste for sure, but I hate to think that gamers, maybe coming mainly from playing mainstream games -like myself, might not be exposed to a modded graphical rep of the game that can win or keep their attention enough to see what the underlying game engine does.

At which point you're either sold, or you never will be.

I rejected all the earlier CMx1 games simply on the basis of graphics. My only other dedicated comp gaming was IL2 Sturmovik, and even back in 2002, the graphics were head and shoulders above CMx1 at the time. I don't think modded versions back then would have made a difference to me, primarily because of Moe, Larry, and Curly. Modding just wouldn't help those guys! Plus, when I tried the demo and saw that the map was just sort of floating out in space, I just thought it was too wierd.

Fast forward to Jan 2009, first day (first hour!) of a vacation week, and I ran across a YouTube from CMSF of a Bradley AFV ripping up some Syrian p-truppen & light armor, and I bought it within 10 minutes; the Marine bundle within the hour; the Brit module as soon as it was released. I learned that game by essentially playing CMSF for 7 solid days. Been hooked on CM since.

It's all relative.

[Badger73]

An off-the-cuff reference in PC Gamer last January 2012 brought CMBN to my attention. Spent 3 months playing the demo and checking out the Armchair General tutorials trying to master the formidable learning curve for it. To me, CMBN is everything I never mastered in "Steel Panthers" but on steroids. A great computer wargame which applies and teaches the correct tactical lessons. Its the only game I make time to play anymore. Enjoy!

Good luck and good gaming.