The pricing strategy is interesting but not ethical

[A Canadian Cat]

Ten 2012 dollars won't even buy you ten Canadian dollars!

LOL - that made me laugh. And yet when I bought it yesterday I could not get $10US for my $10CDN. It cost me $10.41CDN. Damn those currency converters

[thejetset]

But V2.0 payment 10 usd is outrageous. And it's not logical and fair trade

Hi Togi,

I could not disagree with you more. This is an upgrade, not a patch. Also, $10 bucks won't even buy a six-pack of micro-brew!!!

Since you have also played CM since the "Overlord Days", you will fully agree that the team at BattleFront has always delivered on incredible products!!

I have a hunch that they have some pretty impressive plans up their sleeves!! (Bulge! ... EASTERN FRONTx3!! .... New Modern Combat Series!!!) All of that is going to take some cash to make happen.

Money spent on Combat Mission has always had a great return on the investment. .... Steve and gang need to make a living ... but they have ALWAYS given A LOT in return!!!

I have a feeling that a decent percentage of this 10 bucks is going to be invested for launching future projects.

[Aragorn2002]

I'm as critical as the next guy, but I think that improving upon your released products and upgrading them is very ethical. I also think it says a lot about BF that they polish their games to perfection, instead of quickly moving on to the next superficial wargame, like most companies do. I realize some of us have limited means, but 10 bucks...Dear people, it is nothing nowadays and it buys you perfection or something close to it for your favorite wargame.

[sburke]

Has anyone actually LOOKED at what version 2 gets you before you get your panties in a twist?

Check out the editor- new stuff- stuff not even in CMFI. I just love when folks start complaining about what they get for their money- and they haven't even looked at what they get for their money. Why that almost strikes me as.... unethical.

[Lt Belenko]

$10 bucks geez... Eat off the dollar menu a McD's for the next week or so.

Skip a double latte frappe grande at starbucks with 2 shots. Drink Bud instead of Sam. Smoke a short panetela instead of a grand corona.

It's just $10 bucks.

[sfhand]

For me this is really simple... either I think paying the upgrade fee sucks and I don't buy the upgrade OR I think the idea of upgrading earlier versions to the most advanced engine state is an awesome idea and I buy the upgrade... I see no reason for the wailing and gnashing of teeth.

Fortunately, the folks at BF seem committed to providing those who wish to keep their games up to date, feature wise, the opportunity to do so. They didn't have to do this. As a non-grog gamer I can tell you that it is almost unheard of, e.g., Call of Duty series, which is one of the most popular game series ever sold yet never offers a free engine update to allow earlier versions to be played with the improved features of the most current. And, I've never read one complaint about it (maybe I'm living under a rock).

So, as one who considers BF customers lucky to have the upgrade option, I don't mind the complaining because I know it will have no effect on BF's business choices and BF has a history of making sure its customers get value for their money. Even when things don't go well they hang in there and make the game right - the effort put into CMSF after release was extraordinary (based on results not first hand knowledge). Sure they are in business to make money but I really believe that making a good game is vastly more important to them than milking their customers out of a little extra cash.

[JasonC]

MikeyD "$10 won't buy you a white cotton t-shirt". It will buy 2 colored or white cotton t-shirts, in fact.

Will this $10 buy me MG behavior as accurate as in a contemporary board and counter wargame (Panzer)?

[LongLeftFlank]

Ten 2012 dollars won't even buy you ten Canadian dollars!

HA ha! (/Nelson]

[Nidan1]

Ten 2012 dollars won't get you out of the grocery store with a bag of snacks for the day. Ten 2012 dollars won't buy you a white cotton T shirt. Ten 2012 dollars won't even buy you ten Canadian dollars!

BFC is not 'demanding' you do anything. They're 'providing' you with an opportunity. If you want you can happily play v1.11 until you're old and grey. Apparently some people are still happily playing CMBO a dozen years on.

...Except the Market Garden module won't work unless you've upgraded.

I dont know what grocery store you shop in, but $10, will get me a large bag of potato chips, a box of oreo cookies, and couple of bucks left over for some milk to dunk the cookies in. No one wears plain white cotton t-shirts anymore, and its winter time, no one is going to Canada.

Some folks just are not not always able to shell out money for hobby related stuff. Their complaints should not be minimized. We accept the fact that BFC is a business, and commerce requires cash.

[Arnoldio]

I'd be upset about paying if I found another game that gave me as much enjoyment and playing time as this.

Well, many years ago, i have found Project Reality mod for Battlefield 2, and despite the game costing about 25€ back then, plus recieving (late) patches, wich really reworked the game, the last one even included two booster packs, the mod is free, hence it being the mod. That mod for me isnt worth 60€, but 100€/year easily, yet it is free... the team, (mods and community managers included) has about 150+ members, all coming from their own time and pocket. The ammount of contet is mindboggling and they aren't stopping anytime soon. Well, im sure, if it was their engine, theyd charge for it, but just to tell you there is some "free" games out there.

I can see though, BF isnt EA/DICE/Ubisoft etc tht makes millions and every penny counts...

[LongLeftFlank]

Exactly, Arnoldio -- thing is, folks like you and me who frequent the Forums and grok the difference between BFC and EA aren't the problem.

The demographic that matters here are gamers who bought, play and enjoy the CMBN games enough to buy the expansions but don't follow the details. A large chunk of them are going to feel gouged and misled when they buy the module but then find they need to buy something else to get it to work.

And they're not going to come to the Forums to investigate why this is the case and more than fair and they should feel lucky and yadayada. They're simply going to be pissed and perhaps will never buy again. This is basic Customer Psychology 101. Mocking them for not reading the fine print will help nothing -- the result that matters is that you've lost a prime (module buying) customer. A small gaming house serving a niche market simply can't afford to risk these kinds of communications breakdowns -- it's just bad business.

K.I.S.S. -- bundle it all and charge a little more, then make nice with the core community who already upgraded later on.... Most of us will be fine with it.

[dieseltaylor]

Its all quite interesting garnering people's reactions.

Just to say BF have had $247 from me since March 12 2011 for the CMBN series, and I am not including CMFI. So its not like I am taking cheap shots. I have multiple copies of CMx1 series apart from CMBO and have been playing since 2000 so my interest is not casual.

My view is that since March 2010 is we have been involved in a mass playtesting whilst they worked on V2.0 . And it seems a lot of bugs have been teased out with three fixes. Having said that some remain and I have no idea if V2.00 has killed them but judging by the CMFI board certainly HMG's suppressive effects are causing concern. And ammo sharing is bizarre.

SO my position is I was a paying playtester for BF on CMBN V1.00 and now I am being asked to pay for the finalised product which is substantially improved over the original. My point of view is no more or less correct than anyone elses. It also may be a minority view but that also does not make it less tenable.

If I were in charge of customer relations for BF I would have made more of the amount of man-hours worked required to retro-fit it to the 2011 CMBN version. But the real kicker is I would have charged $10 but given the option for punters to pay the collected sum to BF or to Wikipedia, or Save the Whale. Self interest would have guaranteed BF 99% of the pot but made some people feel they had not been put over a barrel and they had an element of choice.

P.S.

As to the auto motif I did not introduce it. However as I get multiple reports on the US auto industry I was happy to carry it through. As some poster has concentrated on looking at mandated recalls I should highlight the more relevant non-mechanical side. Perhaps this on Ford trying to put right non-lethal problems - they are not NHTSA mandated.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MyFord_Touch

There is also reputational risk

Consumer Reports cites unreliability and safety concerns as its reasons for not recommending Ford and Lincoln vehicles equipped with MyFord Touch and MyLincoln Touch systems. CR does recommend that all current owners take advantage of improvements offered by the March 2012 upgrade. In addition to requiring repeated trips to Ford dealerships for repairs, owners contend that system malfunctions are quite distracting and could contribute to accidents causing loss of property, injury and death.[3][4][5][7][8][12][13][14]

Wikipedia

When Ford do sort it out satisfactorily, if ever, but say in 2014 models, they will have the interesting decision as to whether they should make good the 2013's or take the goodwill hit and leave them as lemons for the second hand market. !

[thejetset]

K.I.S.S. -- bundle it all and charge a little more, then make nice with the core community who already upgraded later on.... Most of us will be fine with it.

That's a good point LongLeftFlank. I personally have no problem upgrading since I purchased the game when it was originally released.

However, if I were to buy CM:BN today ... and then find that I need to upgrade to 2.0 immediately for $10 bucks, not only would I find that confusing, I might also be a little bit peeved.

Therefore, I agree with you that it would be wise to just have all new versions of CM already be 2.0 versions. .... maybe kick up the price $5 bucks until the MG module is released or something like that.

-------------EDIT------------------------

I re-read the BF post regarding the 2.0 release ... and they are going to upgrade the original CM:BN and CM:CW to 2.0 very soon upon their original purchase. So I guess that this is kind of a mute point.

[sburke]

Well, many years ago, i have found Project Reality mod for Battlefield 2, and despite the game costing about 25€ back then, plus recieving (late) patches, wich really reworked the game, the last one even included two booster packs, the mod is free, hence it being the mod. That mod for me isnt worth 60€, but 100€/year easily, yet it is free... the team, (mods and community managers included) has about 150+ members, all coming from their own time and pocket. The ammount of contet is mindboggling and they aren't stopping anytime soon. Well, im sure, if it was their engine, theyd charge for it, but just to tell you there is some "free" games out there.

I can see though, BF isnt EA/DICE/Ubisoft etc tht makes millions and every penny counts...

dpabrams just delivered a huge CMSF mod that takes it into a European environment. We get a bit of that love here too.

Exactly, Arnoldio -- thing is, folks like you and me who frequent the Forums and grok the difference between BFC and EA aren't the problem.

The demographic that matters here are gamers who bought, play and enjoy the CMBN games enough to buy the expansions but don't follow the details. A large chunk of them are going to feel gouged and misled when they buy the module but then find they need to buy something else to get it to work.

And they're not going to come to the Forums to investigate why this is the case and more than fair and they should feel lucky and yadayada. They're simply going to be pissed and perhaps will never buy again. This is basic Customer Psychology 101. Mocking them for not reading the fine print will help nothing -- the result that matters is that you've lost a prime (module buying) customer. A small gaming house serving a niche market simply can't afford to risk these kinds of communications breakdowns -- it's just bad business.

K.I.S.S. -- bundle it all and charge a little more, then make nice with the core community who already upgraded later on.... Most of us will be fine with it.

This all supposition. For all we know the "silent majority" might actually spend more time reading the announcements and less time listening to this community confusing the crap out of what is frankly fairly straightforward. Read the patch notes, read the announcements and read the instructions and 99% of the time you won't go wrong. The problem seems to be mostly that people start griping and raising questions that have already been answered and never go back to check the announcements cause it is too hard or sumfink.

As an example - in the announcement which we JUST got it says

Lastly, the Combat Mission: Battle for Normandy v1.0 base game remains available at a special sale price of $35. A new full package upgraded to v2.0 will be made available shortly at the regular price, and v1.0 eventually phased out entirely.

Future buyers will not have to patch or upgrade to get to v2. Yeah that means those of us here had to pay a few dollars more, but hey we have had the game for over a year, that has to be worth 5 or 10 bucks. Which by the way seals it for me. I am not ordering a disk copy of CMBN version 2. What I will likely do is when the fully loaded CMBN version 2 comes out I may just go buy a download copy of that so if I ever need to reload I don't have to upgrade and patch it back to version 2.

[Nidan1]

content clipped for simplification

dieseltaylor, with all due respect, I'm sorry but I have no fecking idea what you are talking about.

What is you are trying to say....in a nutshell please.

[thejetset]

Its all quite interesting garnering people's reactions.

Just to say BF have had $247 from me since March 12 2011 for the CMBN series, and I am not including CMFI.

How is that possible??

CM:BN - $55

CM:CW - $35

v2.0 -$10

---------------

Total: $100

Did you buy everything 2.47 times?

Are you referring to dollars?? or Mexican Pesos???

It just plain does not make any sense. ... Oh, and if your are including Shipping and Importation Taxes ... BF does not get that money you know ... so that should not be included in your total.

[Nidan1]

dieseltaylor, with all due respect, I'm sorry but I have no fecking idea what you are talking about.

What is you are trying to say....in a nutshell please.

[cireland65]

I am getting tired of everything being "a small charge". Just like my property taxes "it is only a small increase of 2%", yes but 2% over 10 years is 20%! And what is 2.0 adding that is so much better? Oh wait, I can have an SS soldier stand beside a FJ soldier...WOOT.

Why doesn't BF offer something new instead of the same junk over and over again, 1944 West and 1941 East. Why not early western war years, something that hasn't be covered by anyone? It boils down to $10 here, $35 here and there and when all is done the will come out with CMBN V3.0, a brand new standalone game for you to buy.

[Rocky Balboa]

Its all quite interesting garnering people's reactions.

Just to say BF have had $247 from me since March 12 2011 for the CMBN series, and I am not including CMFI. So its not like I am taking cheap shots. I have multiple copies of CMx1 series apart from CMBO and have been playing since 2000 so my interest is not casual.

My view is that since March 2010 is we have been involved in a mass playtesting whilst they worked on V2.0 . And it seems a lot of bugs have been teased out with three fixes. Having said that some remain and I have no idea if V2.00 has killed them but judging by the CMFI board certainly HMG's suppressive effects are causing concern. And ammo sharing is bizarre.

Diesel, your paying to playtest analogy doesnt hold water either. You say you have been playing CM since 2000 as have I. Unless you consider CMBO, CMBB or CMAK perfect then I guess you could say your were paying to playtest those games as well?

True you paid for the games and you voluntarily came to the forums and posted your opinions on issues you have with them, but your weren't forced to give any feed back were you? Where you promised any compensation or special consideration for your services as a "playtester"?

The bottom line is you paid for the games in their current state because you tried the demo (or you should have) and you liked it and you continue to purchase upgrades because you enjoy it and see value in it. This doesn't classify you as a play/beta tester. Just sayin

[dieseltaylor]

thejetset

Three copies of CMBN, one of the Commonwealth, none of the CMFI and one V2 upgrade. Do you see a sign of diminishing willingness to buy. And as for getting mates to buy, or giving the game as presents - NEVER AGAIN.

And no I have not counted the postage, import taxes, and the exchange rate costs.

Nidan : )

I have no idea which bit you don't understand. My cunning ruse over paying $10 and making people feel good? That is subtle.

Rocky

I ordered CMBN and paid up before the demo was released. Check the dates : ) Now why the demo came out after the rush for the metal box edition might just show how savvy BF are! : )

As for the games you mention I think if you check closely they were spread over a number of years and were in completely different areas and had the same fundamental engine. So we could play them and have tournaments and all that stuff for a couple of years at least.

Now if they had produced CMBO in 2000 then CMBB in 2001 with a different and improved system and then a new version of CMBO V2 also in 2001 you might well think your comments and work on playing CMBO V1 were being used in the new version. And of course the kicker comes when the patches only work with V2.0!

As for CMBN I have not touched it since March I think because I think it very fecked and tediously micro-managing. Hopefuly .......

[ridethe415]

But V2.0 payment 10 usd is outrageous. And it's not logical and fair trade

Dude, define fair trade?

Battlefront spends hours tweaking their code, do you have any idea how much work that entails?

Quit whining...$10 buys virtually nothing today.

[sburke]

thejetset

Three copies of CMBN, one of the Commonwealth, none of the CMFI and one V2 upgrade. Do you see a sign of diminishing willingness to buy. And as for getting mates to buy, or giving the game as presents - NEVER AGAIN.

Nidan : )

I have no idea which bit you don't understand. My cunning ruse over paying $10 and making people feel good. That is subtle.

Rocky

I ordered CMBN and paid up before the demo was released. Check the dates : ) Now why the demo came out after the rush for the metal box edition might just show how savvy BF are! : )

As for CMBN I have not touched it since March I think because I think it very fecked and tediously micro-managing.

So you bought 3 version of CMBN without actually making sure whether you really liked the game, which you apparently don't as you don't play it anymore? WTF, I don't even know how to comment on that without it sounding extremely insulting. And it took you near a year to figure out? I think you need to talk to John Kettler, he at least took the time to make sure he really wanted it before buying it.

Hard to blame BF for the fact you didn't do your shopping homework... and it begs the question- if you think so poorly of BF management AND you don't like the game, why exactly are you here? That isn't meant as a "get lost" kind of insult. I am seriously asking. Why would one inflict the pain of something they don't like on themselves? :confused:

[JRMC1879]

thejetset

Three copies of CMBN, one of the Commonwealth, none of the CMFI and one V2 upgrade. Do you see a sign of diminishing willingness to buy. And as for getting mates to buy, or giving the game as presents - NEVER AGAIN.

And no I have not counted the postage, import taxes, and the exchange rate costs.

Nidan : )

I have no idea which bit you don't understand. My cunning ruse over paying $10 and making people feel good? That is subtle.

Rocky

I ordered CMBN and paid up before the demo was released. Check the dates : ) Now why the demo came out after the rush for the metal box edition might just show how savvy BF are! : )

As for the games you mention I think if you check closely they were spread over a number of years and were in completely different areas and had the same fundamental engine. So we could play them and have tournaments and all that stuff for a couple of years at least.

Now if they had produced CMBO in 2000 then CMBB in 2001 with a different and improved system and then a new version of CMBO V2 also in 2001 you might well think your comments and work on playing CMBO V1 were being used in the new version. And of course the kicker comes when the patches only work with V2.0!

As for CMBN I have not touched it since March I think because I think it very fecked and tediously micro-managing. Hopefuly .......

Well the point is I dont really give a toss what you think. that is what battlefront are doing - and more importantly what they need to do. Seriously - 10 $ is a box of friggin soap powder to put in my washing machine. No. really thats what it is. I probably buy 20 of those a year if not more I really dont see any of your points. So thats 200 bucks on soap powder and 10 bucks on a game that gives me hours of enjoyment. the soap powder gives me none. Seriously dude - get some friggin perspective on it.

[sburke]

Well the point is I dont really give a toss what you think. that is what battlefront are doing - and more importantly what they need to do. Seriously - 10 $ is a box of friggin soap powder to put in my washing machine. No. really thats what it is. I probably buy 20 of those a year if not more I really dont see any of your points. So thats 200 bucks on soap powder and 10 bucks on a game that gives me hours of enjoyment. the soap powder gives me none. Seriously dude - get some friggin perspective on it.

But WE are really glad you spend the money on soap powder. just sayin....

[Rosseau]

So whatever the cost of the MG module is, just add $10 to it. Or pay your $10 now and enjoy CMBN with the enhancements. Does anyone have a quick link to exactly what 2.0 will bring to the table for CBMN? Thanks.