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The pricing strategy is interesting but not ethical


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Of course I'm not sure how many they have sold, but every sold copy has potential of 10 usd added tag

good trade

regards

So what - your point was that they will make 3/4 of a million dollars from this - otherwise - what was your point. In case you hadnt noticed they do this as a living and therefore to make money - is that what you are objecting to ?

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The CMBN/CW vehicle and soldier textures had to be modified or partially redone for 2.0. Artwork is expensive to produce. It is usually the most expensive part of making a game. The idea that the 2.0 upgrade was effortless for them to produce is not true. BFC has no obligation to give it away for free.

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"So yeah, $10 now or $10 later if you want to play MG"

Is the pricing confirmed, it will be $10 more for MG + V2.0? If it is i might as well buy the upgrade now and get the benefits straight away

I don't know - that was a guess on my part I'm afraid - I was getting a bit obsessed with arguing the toss with togi! Until BF comment on this 'officially' this is yet more wild speculation from yours truely :D

Edit to add: BF may well discount the price of the MG + V2.0 bundle, but then again they may not - as far as I'm aware this hasn't been 'officially' stated yet. Or if it has, I've not seen it.

Maybe I should just keep schtum on this until better informed types can fill in the blanks!

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Of course talking of choices BF had the choice to use the old engine for CMFI and CMMG so the question might be why was V2 necessary less than 20 months after the launch of CMBN.

The reasons are probably BF and many players are not totally happy with V1.1.

By making CMFI the defacto standard it is hard not to realise the pressure to pay up - to remain compatible with other players and actually understand the forum comments in future - is immense. One might almost view it as coercion; if you want to remain in the "community" pay up and move to the latest version.

I am sure there are lots of benefits on the map-making side, scenarios etc for V2 and so togi is right that work is done and dusted. As most players do not do scenarios, modding, and mapmaking its a moot buying reason.

Just to respond to weapons2010 point:

Outrageous?10$?Let me ask you something togi?Do you have to pay for a new transmission to make your car run better?Is a new roof for your house free?

You are probably familiar with car recalls in the US where due to faulty design cars are recalled for a better or different part to be fitted. Or on a software note the problems that Ford has had with its electronic dashboards/infotainment system. You do not see Ford suggesting that the new improved system is going to cost owners $10. They bite the bullet and realise that the first iteration was not really up to scratch.

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I almost downloaded the v2.0 until I noticed the $10 charge. I bought the boxed version when it came out and I rarely play the game. I have all the original games plus most of the strategic command games. I did buy all the expansion packs from matrix games regarding the Panzer Corps game and those packs cost $5 apiece.

At first I thought "What the heck" Then after reading the posts and most of us throw away 10 bucks so easily, that with the time spent with these games its worth it. I mean, go to a movie for 2 hours and it costs that much, McDonald's meal about the same.

The only thing I won't do in the future is buy the boxed editions of games, I'll just wait until the sales come around and then buy the games.

I am waiting for this game to be Eastern Front - Is that in the development stage?

Maybe, I will start a game but I didn't like the shock force much and I'll have to try again.

I still like the work this company does and thanks for making the patches for games.

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Of course talking of choices BF had the choice to use the old engine for CMFI and CMMG so the question might be why was V2 necessary less than 20 months after the launch of CMBN.

The reasons are probably BF and many players are not totally happy with V1.1.

Where has BFC ever said they're totally happy with the game. They built the architecture of BN so that it can be upgraded. They've always said that every release is a compromise of getting something "good enough" out the door in order to pay the bills for future development. An upgrade every 2 years or so is pretty standard for professional software.

By making CMFI the defacto standard it is hard not to realise the pressure to pay up - to remain compatible with other players and actually understand the forum comments in future - is immense. One might almost view it as coercion; if you want to remain in the "community" pay up and move to the latest version.

And the alternative is that BFC improve the game for free?

You are probably familiar with car recalls in the US where due to faulty design cars are recalled for a better or different part to be fitted. Or on a software note the problems that Ford has had with its electronic dashboards/infotainment system. You do not see Ford suggesting that the new improved system is going to cost owners $10. They bite the bullet and realise that the first iteration was not really up to scratch.

Oh dear. The automobile analogy again. Really?

Generally, automobile recalls are done for safety-critical reasons to fix what software calls "bugs". Not to add a different, prettier, graphic to the in-car display, or let you control the heater from the steering wheel control buttons, or to add sat-nav. BFC do patch their games for free to fix bugs. Did you have to pay for 1.11? No. The bump-mapping reskin is more akin to the manufacturer offering you a cut price deep gloss pearlescent respray with changes to the self-coloured fenders and other parts thrown in. And that's just part of the upgrade. Can you imagine a car maufacturer doing that for any price.

You do have one tiny point and one larger one. The tiny one is that currently, the patch level for CMBN is inadequate. Game-breaking and game changing bugs (at least some of which can be fixed cos they have been in FI) remain in the [Edit: 1.11] code for BN. If that remains the case, I'll be pretty ticked off. The larger one is the point about the community. Unfortunately, that's going to be the case with any upgrade. It was the case with the change from x1 to x2, and made worse by the change in theatre/period. The saving grace is that the degree of the split will be dictated by the quality of the product. If v2.0 is rubbish, people won't go there. If it's adequate, people will fork out the upgrade price because it's inherently worth it and then the slowpokes will be dragged up to SotA by opponent-finding pressure.

Still, the fact remains that BFC don't really have an option but to charge us for the work that they do, and moaning about a 20 month upgrade cycle is frankly churlish. Not many companies can go 20 (more) months with no new customers, which is what BFC would have been looking at if they'd not released BN when they did.

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My main concern is that I like to have hard copy disks of games and upgrades that include disks, and that will cost NOT $10 (which is reasonable), but $30(!) incl s&h which I think rather a lot for an upgrade.

Now, if MG will include a disk that has the v2.0 upgrade, that will make me happy and I will simply get the $10 download now and wait for the MG disk that includes the v2.0 upgrade.

But, there seems to be confusions as to exactly what MG will include. Will there be a disk with MG that includes the v2.0 upgrade??

Would someone who actually know what they are talking about plz confirm/deny?

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This is an interesting thread which does more to highlight posters' world-view regarding entitlement than it does to discuss ethics in a free market.

For an example of what many would consider UNethical, how about game company releasing a game with an internal "death clock". One day it just stops working. You have to send in $10 to get the clock reset so you can play for longer. (Actually, that'd be kind of interesting...)

To dieseltaylor's example of Ford's infotainment debacle, that's a poor analogy. Unfortunately, I have firsthand experience with the excrescence known as "MyFord Touch" (MFT), the touchscreen version which utilizes their Sync architecture. Ford has released many FREE patches. It's still garbage. They have not released a new product. If they did, I cannot imagine it'd be free. If the 2014 model has a new dash, do you really think my 2011 should get it for free? That's a spurious strawman argument you presented.

So, you don't want to spend $10 to upgrade your CMBN to the level of play as CMFI? Okay, enjoy the FREE v1.11.

Free market: producer offers a product at a price they set, consumer decides if the offer is acceptable. That is the single MOST ethical method to recompense one party for their labor that has ever been developed.

Unless YOU have changed the CMBN code from v1.xx to v2.00, I would suggest that you have absolutely no idea how much labor was involved. One could say that you are talking out of your ass, were you to do so.

togi, to your original post. Okay, you've hit your threshold. You're not going to spend $10 for v2.0. I have no knowledge how Market Garden's install will work. I don't know if you MUST have v2.0 installed PRIOR to installing it or not. Shrug. If you want MG, you'll see if you can afford it and take appropriate action. If not, don't.

The high emotional content seems a bit out of place.

It's ten bucks. These days, that's just two cups of high fallutin' coffee.

Ken

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Of course talking of choices BF had the choice to use the old engine for CMFI and CMMG so the question might be why was V2 necessary less than 20 months after the launch of CMBN.

The reasons are probably BF and many players are not totally happy with V1.1.

Eh, V1 of the engine made it's debut with Shock Force, which was released over 5 years ago.

By making CMFI the defacto standard it is hard not to realise the pressure to pay up - to remain compatible with other players and actually understand the forum comments in future - is immense. One might almost view it as coercion; if you want to remain in the "community" pay up and move to the latest version.

Yeah... kind of like how Windows 95 users are probably feeling coerced these days. This is how the world works. Companies release improved versions of their products all the time, no matter if that product is software or cars or anything else.

To dieseltaylor's example of Ford's infotainment debacle, that's a poor analogy. Unfortunately, I have firsthand experience with the excrescence known as "MyFord Touch" (MFT), the touchscreen version which utilizes their Sync architecture. Ford has released many FREE patches. It's still garbage. They have not released a new product. If they did, I cannot imagine it'd be free. If the 2014 model has a new dash, do you really think my 2011 should get it for free? That's a spurious strawman argument you presented.

Yep. The stereo in my 2007 Toyota does not have an AUX port. The stereo in the 2008 version of the same vehicle does. In dieseltaylor's world Toyota should be offering me an upgraded stereo for free, because I'm not "totally happy" with it. But that doesn't appear to be happening :mad:

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Ten bucks is a very reasonable price for what is a very worthwhile product. I hope Battlefront gains a great deal of revenue from it and that a good part of that revenue is profit. The profit will help maintain their motivation and the revenue in general will give them the resources to keep producing ever-better CM products.

To me, Battlefront is a prime example of capitalism at its best--a small company, owned by individuals who work in it, making a unique product that they love and believe in.

Contrast that with the parasite CEO's, boards and financial vampires who float at the top of the economy and suck the life out of the companies they choose to temporarily feed upon. They are the worst of capitalism.

And I'm not a blind fanboy here. I'm skipping CMFI because my game time is limited and I much prefer the Normandy theater. For me, buying CMFI would just be a donation to Battlefront because I wouldn't really play it. However, the v2.0 upgrade and everything else they've got slated to do (MG, East Front family, Bulge Family) look right up my alley and I intend to get them all and consider the prices to be an excellent value (and so is CMFI--just can't justify that one due to personal taste in theater).

Oh, and a final thing. I'd be willing to pay 30-40 bucks for a standalone direct-connect WEGO upgrade. I understand why they can't do it and as a customer who wants that feature, would be willing to help make it happen in that way.

And BTW, I am a small business owner.

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Hello everyone.. You're all missing the point here...

The development costs for the 2.0 upgrade were NOT payed by CMBI.... Even if the coding changes to made CMBN into 2.0 were minor, the graphical enhancements to CMBN were absolutely NOT. And in no way were any of them payed for by CMBI. All of the textures for all of the units, tanks, other vehicles, and terrain had to be redone for the 2.0 upgrade. That is what took the bulk of the time. In addition, the QB maps and all of the scenarios had to be upgraded to 2.0. NONE of that was 'payed' for in CMBI and only had to be done so that CMBN could be upgraded to 2.0.

So yes, not only is $10 trivial, but it is ENTIRELY justified...

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I would like BFC to offer a subscription model now that releases arrive at a predictable rate. Just send me all CMx2 WW2 stuff, or all CMx2 stuff in a different subscription.

Ideally combined with a new DRM that has a simple "yeah I'm online anyway" authentication alternative and just allows one login per account.

Time to make things simpler. It's really not the money and 10 bucks more or less I worry about. Heck I pay $90/month for cable TV that I almost never use.

Grow some balls, people.

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I'm sure that the codes had been easily adopted to CMBN from CMFI

So it's not very big effort, if they had demanded 65 usd for CMFI forsake of the new engine , I could understand but now I couldn't understand.

As I said before I will wait MG module for upgrading with no price

Regards

LOL sorry , had to laugh at that too (no offence intended Togi) being involved in the dev world too there is no way its that simple.

Personally I am on the fence on the $10 issue , agree BF need to be paid for their efforts but its difficult as a consumer to get use to paying for what I would class as minor features.

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5 pages over $10. $5 dollars if you wait to bundle with MG Module. Sounds to me like too many people have too much time on their hands. Why aren't you all working on scenarios? :P

$5 bundled with Market Garden ? ---SOLD---

Whats the ETA on MG (been a while since i have looked sorry)

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