lookeylou Posted May 31, 2011 Share Posted May 31, 2011 lol are we getting into ooo look at the physics on the way a table leg splinters. that's going back a little 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunnergoz Posted May 31, 2011 Share Posted May 31, 2011 You have to smack it smartly with your Bren tripod first. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WillLight Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 I think BFC should concentrate all their effort on correctly modelling ammo vs trees, after all the next module is in even more forested areas I would love to watch trees splintering under fire. Maybe it can be called CM:MT (Combat Mission, Man vs Tree) On a more serious note, glad you're looking at it, and hopefully a compromise between dev time and realism is found. Your rest time should be almost over and us non-americans are waiting for the Commonwealth module! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eniced73 Posted November 27, 2014 Share Posted November 27, 2014 Any word on fixing or adjusting this? I can handle trees blocking shots due to abstraction of the round losing velocity and not doing much damage after the fact but I have had two or three games recently where bushes are blocking AP rounds. No need to submit a file as all you have to do is setup some tanks in a field of bushes and let loose on them. You will see AP rounds exploding when they hit some bushes. I have not noticed an overwhelming frequency of this happening but it does happen. Reading this thread I see the trees were being worked on since CMSF? Have bushes been looked at also? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Lee Irked Posted November 27, 2014 Share Posted November 27, 2014 I don't mean to be a sap but it seems the root of the problem is that the game might be bush league. Battlefront might need to branch out it's resources to rectify this problem. However splintering the work groups wood cause tensions to rise and possibly have Steve barking at his various branches. I think BF should stay laminated and keep itself firmly planted on repairing the problem as a whole. No need to cause seeds of discontent. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjkerner Posted November 27, 2014 Share Posted November 27, 2014 Way to spruce up this thread, General. Plant your feet, take a stand. I like that. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ASL Veteran Posted November 27, 2014 Share Posted November 27, 2014 Any word on fixing or adjusting this? I can handle trees blocking shots due to abstraction of the round losing velocity and not doing much damage after the fact but I have had two or three games recently where bushes are blocking AP rounds. bushes detonating tank ammunition isn't necessarily inaccurate. Even grain can cause an HE shell to detonate prematurely. We all like to make assumptions about what we think would happen, but when the actual participants comment on what actually happened many of these assumptions that we hold are shown to be questionable. One Panzer IV crew that I knew had experienced a bad scare when one of their HE shells shot mistakenly into the ears of ripened grain at the side of the road, had exploded not many meters in front of the muzzle brake of their gun. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletpoint Posted November 27, 2014 Share Posted November 27, 2014 Yep, there are plenty of issues with trees (and hedgerows) in the game. I'm still hoping they will be worked on a bit. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletpoint Posted November 27, 2014 Share Posted November 27, 2014 I don't mean to be a sap but it seems the root of the problem is that the game might be bush league. Battlefront might need to branch out it's resources to rectify this problem. However splintering the work groups wood cause tensions to rise and possibly have Steve barking at his various branches. I think BF should stay laminated and keep itself firmly planted on repairing the problem as a whole. No need to cause seeds of discontent. It is Normandy after all, and as they said on D-day: "Get off the beech!" We're all 'pine'ing for a solution.. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanonier Reichmann Posted November 28, 2014 Share Posted November 28, 2014 We're all 'pine'ing for a solution.. What.... not the fjords? Regards KR 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oddball_E8 Posted November 29, 2014 Share Posted November 29, 2014 I don't know if this has been pointed out yet (and I'm not gonna bother reading the entire thread for it), but trees are abstracted in the game. They are NOT where they are portrayed in the game, so HE shells are NOT detonating when hitting foliage. When you fire through a wooded area there is a certain % chance that the shell will hit a tree (which isn't modeled) and detonate. So while it might look like it's hitting leaves, it's actually hitting a tree. Furthermore, this is abstracting several trees in depth, so it's really not that difficult to figure out that shells would be relatively effectively stopped by a wooded area. Although, an attritional effect would be nice so that if you pour enough hot lead into a wooded area (especially large-caliber hot lead), eventually the trees would go away (and heavy woods would turn into light woods before that). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LukeFF Posted November 29, 2014 Share Posted November 29, 2014 I don't know if this has been pointed out yet (and I'm not gonna bother reading the entire thread for it), but trees are abstracted in the game. They are NOT where they are portrayed in the game, so HE shells are NOT detonating when hitting foliage. Eh, no. This isn't CMx1. I've never, ever seen a shell stopped by an invisible tree or invisible tree branch. If you have proof to the contrary, then please upload a screenshot or video showing this in action. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletpoint Posted November 29, 2014 Share Posted November 29, 2014 Invisible trees? That wouldn't be oak-ey.. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
womble Posted November 29, 2014 Share Posted November 29, 2014 Just to point out that trees do go away if you throw enough destruction at them. I've seen several trees vanish entirely when subjected to 150mm arty hits. It really does take a lot of damage to entirely reduce a mature tree to irrelevant-to-the-game sawdust and stump. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eniced73 Posted November 29, 2014 Share Posted November 29, 2014 +1 what Luke said. There are no forest tiles or trees in my example. I am not talking trees here but bushes. I can understand a tree slowing down an AP round somewhat but not small bushes. I am just curious if bushes have to be handled by the programming in a similar manner as trees in order to have the LOS or LOF function. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfhand Posted November 29, 2014 Share Posted November 29, 2014 Invisible trees? That wouldn't be oak-ey.. Sadly I have seen invisible trees (if that is even possible) many a time. They have the darnedest knack of blocking what should be a clear line of sight leaving me to think the game is fatally flawed. Then I remember <alt-t>... doh! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyD Posted November 29, 2014 Share Posted November 29, 2014 Judging from screenshots players have developed the general habit of paying with trees toggled. Which kind'a throws off your perception of what's happening. Those endless complaints about not getting decent LOS on an opponent then you notice from the screenshot that he's surrounded by bare tree trunks. Along the same vein, we're now starting to get situational 'awareness complaints' about a new CM feature, the bright screen toggle for playing night time. Players toggle on the extra illumination, forget they have it on, then complain that their forces can't see the enemy right in front of them. That's because its after midnight on a moonless night! Toggle the brightness thing off and your screen practically goes black. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warts 'n' all Posted November 29, 2014 Share Posted November 29, 2014 I have to say that I rarely turn Trees "Off", and that playing with "Trunks only" makes it look like I'm playing in a forest of telegraph polls. I think that playing with trees full on is more pleasing to the eye, and of course, more realistic. Even if I occasionally turn them off during the command phase to give myself a better idea of what my troops might be advancing into I'll always switch the trees back on again before hitting the go button. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c3k Posted November 29, 2014 Share Posted November 29, 2014 I tend to plan my turns with "trunks only" and toggle to "full" before hitting go. That's usually when I find that I'm in a jungle, not a Home Depot lumber aisle. The foliage makes a huge difference... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sailor Malan2 Posted November 30, 2014 Share Posted November 30, 2014 Me too. Same at night... Set up screen to make the orders easy but watch with immersion 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletpoint Posted November 30, 2014 Share Posted November 30, 2014 Problem being that playing with trees ON can give you a completely false idea of possible threat areas.. you'll likely believe you're safe in a certain area, not realising that the enemy can sometimes shoot at you through a whole forest canopy. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warts 'n' all Posted November 30, 2014 Share Posted November 30, 2014 You are probably right. But, to me it seems pointless having someone go to the trouble of designing a great looking realistic map and then turning all the tress off. I'd rather get beat in "Normandy", than win in "Telegraph Pole Land". Of course, that is just my preference. We all like CM for different reasons. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletpoint Posted November 30, 2014 Share Posted November 30, 2014 You are probably right. But' date=' to me it seems pointless having someone go to the trouble of designing a great looking realistic map and then turning all the tress off. I'd rather get beat in "Normandy", than win in "Telegraph Pole Land". Of course, that is just my preference. We all like CM for different reasons.[/quote'] I tip my hat to that argument And I think we are on the same page. What I wish for is more "what you see is what you get" - if you as the player of the game cannot see through a dense mass of leaves, then your soldiers shouldn't be able to, either. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eniced73 Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015  Just watched the first part of ChrisND's new video on CMBS. I am pretty sure I seen a similar situation earlier in the video but this one is of a AP round being stopped by a tree. Does not look like this was worked on for the new game. For the beta testers----are bushes stopping AP rounds too? Just curious if this is even being looked at or is it a limitation of the game engine where nothing can really be done about it. I do recall seeing an earlier vid from him showing how trees will be destroyed a lot easier so hopefully this is getting some attention. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baneman Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 In a recent game ( just yesterday ) a 105mm round that was on target to destroy my vehicle, hit a tree. The tree survived, but the foliage was totally eliminated, leaving a bare trunk. Seemed pretty reasonable. In my experience, a tree is generally totally obliterated by 3 hits. Â I have never seen a round stopped/detonated by a bush, but that may be because any round likely to hit a bush is generally on track to land pretty close behind the bush anyway. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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