scottie Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 Just to be picky, naval artillery would not have have been able to reach the Falaise pocket. Michael understood , i meant in general. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottie Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 "Should Tigers be Rare?" I prefer mine "well done" (apologies couldn't help myself) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaws Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 Since you ask, most of my play has been of situations not strictly historical, but historically plausible. In other words, there may have never been this exact lineup on this exact terrain, but there could have been. So by that logic, while it would be plausible for US troops to be fighting SS in BN (if they were included), it is not plausible for them to be fighting against SS Tigers. Michael I can agree with that In my case I would like to see if the Germans used the remaining Tigers to defend the Falaise perimeter from the Montormel high ground (like the Polish did later) the US still were able to close the Cap. Btw my weather conditions would be set to very cloudy 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sequoia Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 This is like the third time I have re-posted this post from Battlefront artist Dan "Kwazydog" Olding: "Originally Posted by Kwazydog Hey guys. Just for comparison I did some research on this myself based on a couple of sources, primarily the book Panzers in Normandy. Below is a summary of the info, though of course accuracy of these numbers is debatable. Pz-IV - 422 Panther - 374 Stug - 205 Jpz-IV - 30 H-35 Assault gun - 24 Sdkfz 7/1 - 14 Flakpanzer 38t - 12 Pz-III - 12 Renault B-1 - 5 Lorraine Assault Gun - 3 (AT variety) Tiger - 3 Befehlspanzer III - 3 Somuas S-35 - 3 Sdkfz 10/4 - 2 Tiger II - 0 JagdPanther - 0 These numbers represent the vehicles in Panzer units contacted by the US before they reached Failse. Of the IVs it seems that almost all were H and J models, though a few Gs were still around (and we will be including). Of the Panthers is seems that most were As and early Gs, though probably some later Ds around. There were very few IIIs left on the western front by the invasions. Of the handful that were available most were actually older models being used for training, etc (same as most of the french stuff). And yup, keep in mind that these numbers were units which engaged US troops before Failse. Total numbers of panzers available on the day of the invasion are listed below...according to the sources i referenced. Panzers Available in Normandy (1st June) Pz-IV - 680 Panther - 304 Stug - 243 Tiger - 68 H-35 Assault gun - 67 Lorraine Assault gun - 48 (105mm and 75mm AT versions) Jpz-IV - 40 (should be 60 in total, 20 missing?) Somuas S-35 - 26 Tiger II - 24 Sdkfz 7/1 - 23 Pz-III - 18 JagdPanther - 12 Flakpanzer 38t - 12 Sdkfz 10/4 - 15 Befehlspanzer III - 6 Renault B-1 - 5" 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottie Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 awesome thanks, debate settled then 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaws Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 awesome thanks, debate settled then Nope... now I want to know where the US troops engaged the 3x Tiger 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocky Balboa Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 This is like the third time I have re-posted this post from Battlefront artist Dan "Kwazydog" Olding: Yes and you'll probably have to re-post it another 3 times until this game is released . I mean its still a month or more away, what are we supposed to do with ourselves? Wait don't answer that!! :eek: 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocky Balboa Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 "Should Tigers be Rare?" I prefer mine "well done" (apologies couldn't help myself) Press here!! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
womble Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 Pardon my history, but didnt the US first encounter the Tiger in Africa? Am I wrong to remember it was in the Kasserine Pass? "A Tiger? In Africa?" 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottie Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 "A Tiger? In Africa?" seriously that's got to be worse than my attempt Nope... now I want to know where the US troops engaged the 3x Tiger ... darn now im intrigued too Press here!! lovin that ! (just recently realised how to grin by the way) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrath of Dagon Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 Why would you want a Tiger when you can have a Panther? Unless you like to expose yourself. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 For some guys, size is important. Over-compensation maybe? Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battlefront.com Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 The US ran into them as they were closing up the southern side of Falaise Pocket. Remember, at this point combat was constricted down to a very small geographical area and units were attempting to fight their way out. At that point the traditional unit frontages that had existed for many weeks became extremely haphazard. Armored units, in particular, were shuttled around for the "greater good" of the pocket. This was standard German operating procedure for defending a pocket. Sooooo... Technically speaking the US forces did run into Tigers. Enough to warrant putting them in from a purely historical perspective? No. But does anybody here think it would be good to not include them? I suspect another "no" would be the resounding answer As you guys know, we're very reluctant to add super rare things to our games. And that philosophy is still alive and well. The Tiger itself is not super rare for the Normandy setting, therefore adding it now isn't a big deal because we would be adding it for the British Module anyway. Steve 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Secondbrooks Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 I myself have reached conclusion that German side is not German side if it can't have Tigers at -43 and later. It would be Half-German side. Simple as that. Wrath Of Dagon: I like to compensate my lacks as a man with big Tigers. And i simply like to ram in without boring foreplay. So Tiger is must for me. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sequoia Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 I think I found the rarest of all WWII vehicles that actually saw combat yesterday while reading. It's the Canadian Skink 20mm quad AA tank. Only one saw action. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flammenwerfer Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 Very rare to medium rare. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongLeftFlank Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 Also, at some point players will get sick of hedgerows and rolling hills and start doing Italy. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WillyPete2171 Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 I saw a documentary last night that claimed only 90 tigers fought in Normandy, and Im guessing a good percentage of those Tigers were SS vs Brits which is not in.So how rare were Tigers against Americans in the first 3 months? That's a good question/observation. Extremely rare is the answer. A lot happened during those three months that leads right up to Market Garden though, so they definitely met up. At the beaches I say the Americans didn't see any, but as they started to move across France, they must have met a few. Since just a little over 1,300 were produced and the fact that at least half(most?) were in Russia, very few Americans fought against one. No doubt they were deployed to all the "hot" sectors where they were needed the most. As a side note, 21 Tiger II's saw action against the Brits in Normandy. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destraex1 Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 really ? are you sure ? they were around since last 1942 IIRC , stating the obvious they were kicking aboot africa for a while. CMBN scope it up to Sept 44 ? , US must have come across a single Tiger in this time period. Not that it matters , they are in the first release thankfully , would be madness to leave them out , its a selling point. I'm sure he means, in normandy during this period. You would have to check german records for tigers in the area as I'm sure a lot of american soldiers "spotted" un-confirmed tigers What I am sure of is that most of the german armour was facing the British. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonS Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?f=54&t=176141 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GhostRider3/3 Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 I don't think US forces clashed with tigers within the timeframe of this release, so rarity should be set at 'non-existant' I think you are right.... but that would leave out "What If Scenarios" which would suck. I believe most times the US forces saw Pz IVH's not Tigers. If you look at their silouette profiles they are similar. I dont beleive the US saw their first Tigers until "Market Garden".... But I doubt it. I think they mostly saw those destroyed by the British as they moved through Normandy. However Panzer Lehr Funklenk-Panzerkompanie Kellerman did fight around St. Lo vs the US 83rd Div. However the 101st SSsPzAbt had a compliment of around 49 Tigers I's. And if you have not heard of Villers Bocage... I highly recomend you read about it. 7th UK Armored "Desert Rats" encounter with M. Whittmann and a few Pz IVH's. The 2nd SS, along with the 17th SS GBV when engaged with the US in Normandy only brought a handfull of TD's, Panthers and Pz IVH's All the Tigers from the I and II SS Pz Korps were tied up with the Commonwealth forces. Even in Market Garden there were only maybe a handfull of Tigers as most units were being refitted. I believe that the Battle of the Bulge would have really been the first time that the US was truly engaged by mix Tiger I and II's. At Normandy the sPzABT 503 had 45 Tigger II's with the Porsche Turret, this was the prototype version (early) of the Tigger II's they were positioned around Cagny. They fought well but took a beating from bombardment. Panzer Lehr would have had a mix I believe, as there are pictures of both types of Tiger II's. TO any Allied soldier looking at one of these beasts.. it must have been disconcerning. The Allies can thank alot of Air crews for many Tanks destroyed, and the Navy. @Sequoia... not sure where you got those numbers but I would say some of the numbers would be incorrect. On another Note: If you want to talk rarity, it would be the Heavy Armored Car of Germany. "Puma" as only 200+ were ever produced, but their 50mm High velocity AT gun was formidable even being able to take out Shermans from side and Rear maybe even a lucky front shot... after all it was the taken from the PzIII. and the L/60 was the latest 50mm gun that destroyed alot of Commonwealth tanks etc in North Afrika, the Common wealth called those Tanks 'Mark III Specials". 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sequoia Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 As I indicated, the numbers are from an old post by Battlefront artist Dan Olding mostly taken from the book "Panzers in Normandy", but it is quite an old post and the staff's "official" numbers may have changed since that time. If you like the Puma you're in luck because it's on the list for the initial release. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GhostRider3/3 Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 As I indicated, the numbers are from an old post by Battlefront artist Dan Olding mostly taken from the book "Panzers in Normandy", but it is quite an old post and the staff's "official" numbers may have changed since that time. If you like the Puma you're in luck because it's on the list for the initial release. Thats good to hear Sequoia. If anyone is looking for some good reads, I highly recommend the British Author Michael Frank Reynolds "Men Of Steel"(Ardennes offensive) Steel Inferno ISS PzKorps, and Sons of the Reich IISS PzKorps.. Awesome Objective opinion and lots of Facts backed up... Not like the bloody info you see on the Military channel or History Channel. The Devils Adjuant is another good read on Jochan Peiper if interested. I have probably read about 50+books on Normandy and Market Garden era and The two books from Frank Reynolds is rather good, and offers an objective view, which is sometimes hard to get. I have also had the priveledge of talking to a Hungarian who served in a Reserve Garison Unit in Ninjmegen and another Vet from the Waffen SS who served with the 2nd SS... both men let me read their short autobiographies.. it was really something I will never forget.. God bring them Peace to their souls....and to all the many other vets who fought in that Horrific campaign of destruction. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingfish Posted March 20, 2011 Share Posted March 20, 2011 At Normandy the sPzABT 503 had 45 Tigger II's with the Porsche Turret, this was the prototype version (early) of the Tigger II's they were positioned around Cagny. Only one Kompanie of the 503rd had the IIs, the rest were Tiger Is. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoolaman Posted March 20, 2011 Share Posted March 20, 2011 At Normandy the sPzABT 503 had 45 Tigger II's with the Porsche Turret, this was the prototype version (early) of the Tigger II's they were positioned around Cagny. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.