CM 2 Article, with Screens

[Soddball]

Hurrah for BTS! Death to the chimps that bleat about stupid stuff! Long live the revolution!

Or something.

---------------------------------------------

This was a public service announcement from the Broadminded Broadcast Society. Please do not adjust your attitude.

[Triumvir]

Hmm... JMcGuire, I'm a programmer. I do this stuff for a living too. I know the temptation to get pissed off at the client/end user (BTW, if your corporate drone software writing doesn't involve some end-user interaction, you're lucky -- mine does.)

I don't think Steve's doing a bad job. I don't think anyone else at BTS is doing a bad job. I'm simply saying that as far as I am concerned -- and this is not expected to change anyone's behaviour patterns -- Steve overreacts to modification requests.

Does everything I say have to be either laudatory or condemnatory? I think they do a good job; I think Steve gets pissed off a bit too quickly; I don't expect him to change, but I do expect him to acknowledge my right to that viewpoint.

[Michael Dorosh]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Triumvir:

Does everything I say have to be either laudatory or condemnatory? I think they do a good job; I think Steve gets pissed off a bit too quickly; I don't expect him to change, but I do expect him to acknowledge my right to that viewpoint.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Whether or not he gets pissed off to quickly is not the point; it does seem he lets his frustration out on the board - not often, but once in awhile. I don't suppose we can blame him; many of the regulars do it, and he has more invested in Combat Mission than any of us. Though it seems silly to talk about his emotional state since none of us really know him, anyway. I just wish people would stop baiting him here in public and let him concentrate on what he's doing.

[Username]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Triumvir:

I don't think Steve's doing a bad job. I don't think anyone else at BTS is doing a bad job. I'm simply saying that as far as I am concerned -- and this is not expected to change anyone's behaviour patterns -- Steve overreacts to modification requests.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

No way!

He will over react initially, followed by long drawn out tit-fer-tat threads (that he may or may not close down), then he might acknowledge another poster who basically is saying the same thing (only differently) in another thread. Thats the evolutionary process.

Its all for the best I am sure. Dont take any of this too seriously.

Lewis

[André]

HELLO!!!!!!!!!!!

Why are you giving Steve a hard time, let him get back to working on CM2 for Christ sake!

:mad:

[JAK]

HI MOM!

Jake

[Vanir Ausf B]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by M Hofbauer:

Steve:

We released a "hardcore" wargame a while ago that was knocked pretty hard (webzine, not big mag) because they got someone who was more of a RTS fan to review it.

That's just the kind of thing I was talking about.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Notice he said "(webzine, not big mag)". There are countless little podunk online review sites of various quality. We're only talking about the Big Three magazines here.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>My only complaint would be the perhaps too opimistic previews but that is a pervasive issue with both websites and magazines.

exactly my point. Everything's gonna be goody-goody-goody.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Notice he said preview, not review. I have seen many games get glowing previews and then negative reviews when it came out from the same mag.

[ 06-01-2001: Message edited by: Vanir Ausf B ]

[Enoch]

Free Erubiel Durazo!! Oops, wrong forum. Anyway, I would hope that whatever apparent criticism comes from some people over the behavior of BTS (all of 4 guys) wouldn't really bother them. Most of us recognize BTS for what it is and appreciate it. Don't let the buggers get you down. I for one appreciate the work BTS has done, the way they listen to their customers, and enjoy their product a great deal.

[Battlefront.com]

Just some quick comments...

Yup, I am not totally emotionally detracted from discussion here. There is no way that I can be without having a dispasionate associating with Combat Mission. And since Combat Mission is what it is because of the passion and energy we throw into it, there is a tradeoff. If someone crosses a line I might get ticked off.

If you want us to hire a suit to answer questions, I am sure he would flair up less. But then again, he wouldn't know squat about the game or probably even WWII itself which increases the likelyhood people would get personal with him and make him flair up for some other reason not related to the game So if I get bent out of shape because some numbnuts has crossed the line... that is the price the discussion must pay for the rest of the good.

And let us not forget that the majority of the discussions here are good. I have posted here roughly 6,000 times in the last two + years. That is something like 7 or so posts a day on average. How many of those have you seen me go nuts about some issue? And how many of those situations would a reasonable person think of as being an overreaction? I personally think it is few and far inbetween.

As for not having a thick skin, I doth protest Put yourself in my boots and have a couple thousand people "nagging" you day in and out about this or that little or big detail, or even how we run our business. There are over 250,000 posts here, which is no small number. Now... can you honestly tell me that in over two years with this sort of level of attention to everything you say or do that you wouldn't get hot under the collar a few times? Remember, I'm not a suit, I'm human

Now I used the word "nagging" simply as a catch all. The vast majority of posts here are not in any way shape or form thought of in a negative way, even when they are critical. But understand that everybody, even the most dedicated Combat Mission fans, are looking for flaws and quite rightly discuss them when found. This is fine, but there are some rather reasonable rules for doing this. The more these flaws are based on opinion, the greater the chance for disagreement, which means a higher level of discussion is needed. Some people are incapable of that, and so they just dig in their heels and toss insults our way. Even when I get upset, I try VERY hard to still discuss the issues. In fact, I think some great suggestions have been implemented even during rather heated exchanges because SOMEONE keeps the discussion on track inspite of another's rudeness or inability to discuss things rationally.

Hoffbauer... your point about engaging you folks in CM2 designs is totally valid. It is also what we have been doing for the last year since Combat Mission was released For example... Rarity has been something we have discussed a HUGE number of times here on this BBS. It has helped us flesh out a really solid design. This BBS has already done its duty as a great sounding board. There is no need to discuss Rarity any more until you guys have actually got a chance to take a look at it (most likely not until 1.0 release). Then if you guys feel it needs improvements/tweaks, we'll go in and do just that like we did with the patches put out for CM1.

The way I think you guys should look at it is the last year or so much of the conversation has helped us, in no small way, to design Combat Mission 2. At the moment, we are generally breaking away from discussion so we have some time to actually code the stuff up. If we need your input on a design decision, then we will ask (I just posted something about Ferdinands/Elephants in fact). As things progress we will report back as to how the game is shaping up. It is just too early to do this right now. But in a few weeks I will post something for you guys about were development stands.

Steve

[Triumvir]

Heck Steve, I don't blame you for flaring up once in a while (though since I'm a dual-class programmer/suit, my suit side takes exception to the imprecation that all suits are kl00l3ss...), especially given provocation from people like Lewis.

You guys are doing a damned great job, and I don't expect you to go Atomic (koff) on us. I've never seen a game as neurotic about detail as CM -- and I _love_ it.

Now if you could just take some of our suggestions about artillery in hand for CM II.... 8) The Red God of War demands his fill.

[aka_tom_w]

GREAT Reply Steve!

All the rest of you can either consider that I'm just sucking up (which BTW I'm not) or that most of us here know that Steve and Charles and BTS have designed the BEST wargame (PERIOD!) we have ever played and some of us have a great deal of faith that they KNOW what they are doing, sans CM2 screen shots here and all. I'm sure we will all see them soon enough!

Lets all just enjoy CMBO and let them build their next delight (CM2) in peace

-tom w

[Pvt.Tom]

Well I learned about CM1 from CGW so everyone who thinks sending info to a mag is a waste of time can stuff it.

[kipanderson]

Hi,

I thought I would just add that watching the discussion on this thread has me puzzled. Why anyone would get hostile and angry with Steve is beyond me.

I have had a number of discussions with him, as many of us have, and had a number of suggestions turned down. One example is that I believe that the MG42, in its heavy form, is overstated in CM. Should be about 120 not 150 firepower at point blank. However, Steve came down against me. I still think I am correct and feel I can justify that claim, but Steve said no. This does not put me off Steve or CM one jot.

I disagree with him but am 100% certain he came down against me “not” because he is biased but because he thinks the evidence supports his view.

The fact that we all disagree sometimes I see as part of the fun!

The important thing is that everyone at BTS clearly is trying, and in my view succeeding, in building stunningly realistic simulations of WW2 combat.

No one could ask for more.

Looking forward to CM2, and some lively discussion of the Soviet armour penetration figures,

All the best,

Kip.

[Pzman]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by aka_tom_w:

GREAT Reply Steve!

All the rest of you can either consider that I'm just sucking up (which BTW I'm not) or that most of us here know that Steve and Charles and BTS have designed the BEST wargame (PERIOD!) we have ever played and some of us have a great deal of faith that they KNOW what they are doing, sans CM2 screen shots here and all. I'm sure we will all see them soon enough!

Lets all just enjoy CMBO and let them build their next delight (CM2) in peace

-tom w<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well said.

[von Lucke]

Come on now folks! It's pretty much assured that 99.9% of the people who read this board will buy CM2, so doesn't it make more sense for Steve & Co. to expend their limited PR energies in hyping their new product to those masses still uninitiated in the Dao of CM?

And it's a bit self-centered to say that Steve doesn't spend his time here soliciting opinions on how CM2 should be done, isn't it? It's BTS's baby, I'm sure they know what they want to do with it, and if they really need an opinion on something, they'll ask.

Now have another Jack & Coke and relax, ferchrisesake!

[stic.man]

bts rocks! yah!

-stic the bts groupie

[Simon Fox]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>I think Steve gets pissed off a bit too quickly; I don't expect him to change, but I do expect him to acknowledge my right to that viewpoint.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I totally disagree with you there. My general opinion has been one of amazement at his patience but I guess you may have missed out on earlier discussions (the good old days). I would acknowledge that he has been a little more testy of late but that may relate to the "dredging up of dirty old topics syndrome". Also a significant proportion of testy episodes seem to be restricted to a few individuals. After all it is hard not to get testy with Lewis and even more annoying when you are forced to agree with him. Boy that would really make you cranky

I take that back. To hell with this bootlicking, after all where's it got me. No doubt back in the good old days when Steve and Charles were knocking together CM in their backyard it was all sweetness and light to the potential customers. But now rampant success has gone to his head. Ensconced in their corporate bunker, knowing the CM junkies will pay almost anything for CM2, it's kick the customer time. Hell, I'm suprised he doesn't just detail some corporate lackey to sink the boot. Probably enjoys it to much himself I guess. We should have known the corporate culture was about to change when they employed a couple of big canine boofheads called Madmutt and KwazyDog as enforcers. Geez, we've been taken for a ride folks but now we're hooked, we're stuffed.

[ 06-04-2001: Message edited by: Simon Fox ]

[Panzer_Meyer]

Hey Steve is simple as not making the game.

God, I am fed up just readin 2 or 3 post of people bitchin'. I would just say "yep, game is cancelled since you people bitch so much"

I guess you can't satisfy everyone, but the best thing is to ignore people that bitch so much.

Nice work Steve!

People just remeber: "When it's DONE!!!"

P.s. Steve you should pull a prank and post that the game is cancelled, 2-5 days later, post again saying that was a joke. Would be funny, and maybe get some poeple thinking.

Just a suggestion.

[420]

hey man, what's with all these negative waves concerning "suits?"

[Michael Dorosh]

mein liebe Rommel22 - how do you know that the entire "CM2" thing isn't actually the prank?

[gunnergoz]

Reading all this is a trip!

Some people clearly need to get a life or a wife...Steve seems to have led the way on this one,guys. Find a gal who brings you beer while you play CM and know what heaven is like

I'm a big CM fan in part because of the grogginess of it and the fact that I adore small business and do anything I can to support them. BTS may sell a million of the damn things, but as long as there are just 4 guys smackin' keys behind it, well then it's a small business.

It's amazing how the internet has enabled us to vent our rage the way we occasionally see here. I've fallen prey to my emotions at the keyboard once or twice and am ashamed of that fact. Like road rage, it's not pretty nor is it something to be proud of. Fortunately, most posters here are quite civil and well-spoken. This forum remains my home page precisely because of that display of values.

Enough babbling. BTS, if you bothered to read this drivel, whythehell ain't you busy coding CM2???? Git! We'll cover ya!

[Franko]

For what its worth, BTS, I'm perfectly happy with you guys. Great product, Great mission statement. You'll get my money so long as you make a superior product..end of story.

I'm a little distracted by the fact you only got four people working on the product, though. DELEGATE! It helped ME get rich.

Franko

[Conscript Bagger]

I got my copy of CGM in the mail today so I was able to actually read the article we've made over 120 posts about

File these under "pleasant surprises," and maybe I've just been reading the wrong posts lately and missed it, but relative spotting and 39-40 Winter War action were news to me...

[Col Deadmarsh]

Is it just me or has Charles never posted on the board? Steve, how come you do all the talking?

Apparently this board has its own version of Penn and Teller...

[Fenris]

Haaa, this discussion of 'Steve' sounds exactly the same as one about ROF or armour penetration values. The guy's another human - get some perspective, he can say and do what he feels. The thinkness of his skin is as immaterial as the length of a piece of string - he's another person and he'll react how he reacts, so deal with it.

Also, if the fact that CMBO is such a huge success is not creditials enough to have faith in BTS's ability to make/market a winning product in CMBB then WTF is?

Cliche - All things come to those who wait...Would people agree that this was true with CMBO?

So the moral here is...