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CM2: Comrade Mission

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Fairbairn-Sykes Trench Knife: *Cough*... [pitiful cry for discussion] can't Username even make an appearance to ridicule me? i've already done the groundwork - by simply posting...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Too busy snickering. Dont want to piss off the brits anyway. Might need them soon enough, crappy infantry weapons or not! Lewis

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by MrPeng: [QB]I also shave in the shower - without a mirror. QB]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> So do I, but usually finish up my chin by shaving in the toilet. I immerse my bleeding mug into the murky depths. I then scrape any gnarly scrub off the edges of my face. Finish up with readily available TP against any spurting wounds. It may be wierd but at least I am not bald. Thats the real horror. Especially when you shave your head in a desperate attempt to look cool but people see the demarcation of nubs and skin way back on the head. Speaking of which. Did they drain ModMatt dry? He gave blood for almost 4 days it seems. Lewis PS Oh yeah, its miller time heah.

Rexford is in complete agreement with himself and wins his own arguments.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by nijis: Look, those are sick reactions, but it happens. The Palestinians have been on the receiving end of a fair number of American munitions lately. Lebanon has been hit by US-made munitions for well on three decades, including white phosphorous and cluster bombs, yet folks are still friendly to Americans. Don't let a few creeps on the TV make you want to wipe out a country. I can tell you that nobody seems to be dancing or shooting off firearms in the streets of Cairo. And there's a lot of Afghans that don't care for OBL and his Taliban hosts, too.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Nah. This isnt going to happen ever again. I am sick of the peace process. The world is going to seperate all these clowns from each other. Bunch of ****ing babies. I am sick of the mid east, terrorism, israel, arabs, persians, bloodshed and bull****. Lewis

Anyone in NY?

Those buildings hold thousands of people. I used to work in the stock market. Theres probably ten thousand people dead.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Priest: Username, Your brother worked in WTC or NY. It actually does not matter my prayers are with you either way and your family no matter the outcome.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Chinatown. Between the lower bridges and the collapse. Fireman.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Pvt. Ryan: As the reality of terrorism sets in, the people in my NY office don't know what to do. They don't know if they should stay in the office or go home. They were told that if they leave the building they can't get back in. The subways are shut down and probably other forms of rail transporation. People want to leave but they can't get out of the city. They are afraid to take buses because they fear the bridges may be targets. My company is an insurance agency and many insurance companies are located in the WTC. We fear that the people we know are gone.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Sorry to hear that. If my brother was working then he is gone too. I cant reach anyone in NY on phone.

**** the beer. I need a real drink. My brother is a fireman in chinatown nyc. Hes probably dead.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by PzKpfw 1: I would question how any of us here can empirecly challenge the claimed 'tank' kills of any nation in WW2, as their is no way to verify any of the data, not thru formula, guestimates, etc. ]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> That is also what I am saying. The origional question is tank-vs-tank battles. Jason loves to try to take people down paths where he feels that discussions must go. In answer to the origional question, I think I have already answered it. Unless people start posting after action reports of tank units fighting other tank units, then overall numbers can be taken anyway you want. Lewis

More encyclopedia jasonica. jasons arguments come down to "See? alot of T34/85 in Berlin, ergo, they won the war.". (I thought that was Maximus' line.) Again, for those that think they can blow smoke out thier butts and impress people, unless tank on tank battle data can be offered up, alot of the numbers you see here are open to interpretation. When tank-on-tank data is put here, it is poo-poo'd by the self proclaimed "analyzer". So I am posting data on the combatants OWN claims against themselves. That is, total writeoffs reported by the side losing the tanks. Perhaps jason will explain how these are understated just like the kill claims are overstated. Just for the record, I was refering to T34 and KV manhandling the early panzers. Most of the tank kills were against other soviet tanks because the T34/KV1 were minority vehicles during 1941 (maybe 42 also). Anyone can see through the rest of the jasons blather (hes desperately trying to put words into others mouths). He wont address previous points like the fact that Tiger and panther numbers steadily increased but thats to be expected. I said it before, arguing with jason is an exercise in futility. Lewis

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JasonC: And German fleet size was not growing. Production was in the ratio 2.2-2.5 to 1 favor the Russians. Losses probably were ijn that ratio as well, favor the Germans of course. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> This isnt true for the Tiger I fleet. It rose in 1943 even with Kursk. It did not fall during a month till early 1944. It finally declined during the summer of 1944. This is also true for the Panther. The summer battles of 1944 being the worse for the german tanks overall. The panzer IV fleet followed a trend of barely keeping up with the pace of loss (with some close months). But the Panzer IV fleet also gradually continued to grow. It also took a beating during the summer of 1944. I think this thread has taken the typical JasonC route. He wants so desperately to make his point that he gets away from the initial interest. I think the question initially asked was about tank on tank battles. This scenario will be (hopefully) more common in CM2 than CMBO. CMBO being more an infantry game/combined arms game. So, when the germans are defending in tank battles (1942-1944), they will have better kill ratios most of the time. This all depends on time frame, ratio of attacker to defender, terrain, etc. In attacks by german armor, unless they have Tiger tanks against weaker gunned defenders (45mm gun vehicles, T34/76), they can expect to have lesser kill ratios and even be on the losing side of the ratio. No big whoop but thats they way it was. But dont worry, more numbers and math and strange logic will follow this post. Unless someone can produce tank-on-tank battle data, It is really up to people seeing the overall numbers how they want to. Lewis PS I am using Panzer Truppen 2 as a source.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Roksovkiy: Tanks kills were always confirmed when the situation allowed. During July 12th prokhorovka the Leibstandarte division alone claimed 192 Soviet tanks destoyed. II SS Panzer Korps General Paul Hausser thought this was scarcely credible until he visited the battlefield and walked around the hulks, each was numbered in white chalk to confirm the kills. This was only in the Leibstandarte sector during Prokorovka. Leibstandarte combat report 12 July losses: Total lossed: 18 Tanks Repairable: 14 Tanks Unrecoverable 4 Tanks Romitrov’s own admission of his tank losses tally with German figures, his tank charge was a slaughter.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Heres a pretty good site that lists RUSSIAN claims about RUSSIAN losses. http://history.vif2.ru/library/archives/losses/losses3.html The russians seem to be feeding in armor. The losses being greater than the starting TOE during battles. I believe this meant that the russians would sacrifice tanks in slaughters to try to achieve their goals. Operation Availability of AFVs at the start of operation Total losses Details Battle casualties Tech fauilures Other From report of 1st Guard Tank Army. Kursk-Belgorod operation. Defensive period 5/7-20/7.1943 631 (511) 954 (783) 854 (716) 100 (68) - (-) Kursk-Belgorod operation. Offensive period 3/8-31/8-1943 542 (418) 1040 (889) 706 (646) 334 (243) - (-) The 1st guards tank army lost 1.5 as many T34 during the offense then they possesed in the beginning! There must have been stores of T34 in tank parks waiting to be delivered to these slaughter hauses.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JasonC: [QB If every German tank and PAK KO'ed 5-10 Allied AFV, which is often claimed, the Allied AFV total at the end of the war would be negative, and a larger number in absolute magnitude than total Allied production. Leaving aside breakdowns, mines, artillery HE, tankbuster aircraft, and infantry weapons. .[/QB]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> You miss the point. It was at certain times that the germans achieved this and higher. It was not every german vehicle for the whole war. Thats the part that you are missing. The T34/76 were not that great in the attack after 1941. Actually most tanks arent but ALL the weaknesses stand out in the attack. They were slaughtered. But I take it you will see what you want to see. Lewis