db_zero Posted February 26, 2022 Share Posted February 26, 2022 I’m hearing the Ukrainians are letting captured Russian troops to call home and talk to family… 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baneman Posted February 26, 2022 Share Posted February 26, 2022 1 minute ago, db_zero said: I’m hearing the Ukrainians are letting captured Russian troops to call home and talk to family… Smart move. It shows they're not the monsters they're being painted as and gets that info spreading via word of mouth amongst ordinary Russians. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan/california Posted February 26, 2022 Share Posted February 26, 2022 35 minutes ago, Battlefront.com said: Back to the fuel discussion. A point I forgot to make... Fuel consumption is heavily influenced by what you're doing with the vehicle. If you're driving off road, you use more fuel. If you are constantly starting and stopping, you use more fuel. If you need to keep the engine running because you might need to move within seconds, you use more fuel. If your adrenaline is pumping you're less likely to change gears appropriately, you use more fuel. Etc. Russian logistics planners who were told to anticipate X amount of road marching and Y amount of tactical activity over Z days would make their fuel calculations based on that information. This dictates how much fuel is kept in what state of readiness. Changing any one of those variables and their calculations could be thrown way off. It's pretty clear that all three are off the mark by a lot. Upshot is... Russian forces have consumed more fuel than anticipated. Add to this that if they were anticipating that the 2nd and 3rd waves would be driving relatively short and direct distances, then parking for extended periods of time, their logistics headaches just got soooooo much worse. Steve Steve there are a lot of medium sized countries that would be a lot better off if you were the new defense minster. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holien Posted February 26, 2022 Share Posted February 26, 2022 Just now, Baneman said: Smart move. It shows they're not the monsters they're being painted as and gets that info spreading via word of mouth amongst ordinary Russians. Each Russian soldier has at least 6 family members on average and maybe many more that will be influenced by that contact. Really smart move. Public pressure inside Russia will help... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan/california Posted February 26, 2022 Share Posted February 26, 2022 5 minutes ago, Baneman said: Smart move. It shows they're not the monsters they're being painted as and gets that info spreading via word of mouth amongst ordinary Russians. OK Putin is bleeped, this beyond brilliant. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vet 0369 Posted February 26, 2022 Share Posted February 26, 2022 44 minutes ago, The_Capt said: Hey I get tactical context but that weapon system is normally in a DAG - probably pushed down to a lower level in this one no doubt. One does not simply drop ones MLRS, by my count 3 systems with 120 tubes can do a good job of suppressing a grid square, this would be a equivalent of a BTG dropping its rifle. Sure conditions exist where you would but none of them are very good. You are either out of gas, out of ammo or the enemy have overrun your rear area to name a few. More precisely - What would drive a commander to drop those weapon systems? Sorry for any misunderstanding. My comment was meant to apply to the question of why the UKR hasn’t destroyed them. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
db_zero Posted February 26, 2022 Share Posted February 26, 2022 (edited) 18 minutes ago, Holien said: Each Russian soldier has at least 6 family members on average and maybe many more that will be influenced by that contact. Really smart move. Public pressure inside Russia will help... Not only that but imagine if Putin does decide to use a weapon like the TOS-1 in a urban area and Russian prisoners are present there will be hell to pay back home. Edited February 26, 2022 by db_zero 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battlefront.com Posted February 26, 2022 Share Posted February 26, 2022 21 minutes ago, George MC said: Interesting summary re effectiveness or otherwise of RU ops and BTG. Not sure on accuracy or sources. Not really my field of knowledge but would be interested in take from those who do? Thanks George! That was an amazing all in one place kicking down of propaganda perception one point at a time. This is half the reason I've been saying for years that Russia would get it's arse kicked if it tangled with Ukraine again, not to mention NATO! Russia's military is simply not built for this sort of war. The other reason it was pretty easy to predict Russian defeat is, obviously, Ukraine's morale and military preparedness. One point about the corruption he mentioned ties in with wondering where all the fancy Russian equipment is. Sold off to make some money, never purchased and money pocketed, broken but never repaired because that involves effort, etc. There's also the propaganda problem where the government only shows you what it wants you to see. So when you see a Russian unit on maneuver, you can bet someone made sure they had all the fancy stuff for the cameras. Steve 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danfrodo Posted February 26, 2022 Share Posted February 26, 2022 So weapons, including panzerfausts now, are being shipped from Poland to Ukraine. But how do those weapons get to those in the big fights I wonder? By truck it looks to be ~200 miles to kyiv, ~300+ to the east. So one day truck trip but can they get the weapons those last few miles to the troops in need? I sure hope so. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletpoint Posted February 26, 2022 Share Posted February 26, 2022 I'm hoping Ukraine wins this war, but on the other hand, I'm starting to worry about what might happen if Putin loses. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
db_zero Posted February 26, 2022 Share Posted February 26, 2022 3 minutes ago, Bulletpoint said: I'm hoping Ukraine wins this war, but on the other hand, I'm starting to worry about what might happen if Putin loses. If I were NATO I would say we heard you and extend a guarantee that Ukraine stays out of NATO. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarjen Posted February 26, 2022 Share Posted February 26, 2022 1 hour ago, DesertFox said: Not really. They only allow the Netherlands to hand over 300 Panzerfausts out of german production to Ukraine. No. This time Germany will deliver 1000 Panzerfaust3 and 400 Stinger Manpads. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battlefront.com Posted February 26, 2022 Share Posted February 26, 2022 6 minutes ago, Bulletpoint said: I'm hoping Ukraine wins this war, but on the other hand, I'm starting to worry about what might happen if Putin loses. I've always been worried about this. The best we can hope for is a sudden heart attack, an accidental fall out a window, or lead poisoning of the blood. It would be as ironic as it is just. Anything other than a quick removal of Putin from power is frightening. Steve 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vet 0369 Posted February 26, 2022 Share Posted February 26, 2022 36 minutes ago, Kraft said: Every video of captured / dead russians I see makes me wonder why they are sending their 2nd or 3rd best troops first. Often no optics, no body armor. The guys look like they are starving and their vehicles, with some exceptions, look like they've had the honor of visiting afghanistan some decades prior. Unless some major confrontation after the fact is planned, why save the best and accept higher casulties, bolster Ukr morale and give the western politicans more time to be put under pressure to actually do something instead of sitting it out. They could be “bullet sponges” to depreciate the UKR weapons supplies before they send in the “elite.” 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danfrodo Posted February 26, 2022 Share Posted February 26, 2022 What's amazing to me about all this is how incredibly stupid it is for Putin. He is dictator for life and there's no conceivable way that changes unless he does something that unites the people and the elites against him. So he decides to do the one thing that could leave him swinging from a lamp post. And for what? To own a super hostile, wrecked country and the eternal hate of most of the world? Clearly he is having issues w risk/benefit analysis. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chibot Mk IX Posted February 26, 2022 Share Posted February 26, 2022 3 minutes ago, Vet 0369 said: They could be “bullet sponges” to depreciate the UKR weapons supplies before they send in the “elite.” That could be an explanation, but it doesn't seem very fit with traditional soviet military doctrine. You must achieve a clean breakthrough before send in the "elite" . So the first wave of the "Bullet Sponges" is better to be elite/crack. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haiduk Posted February 26, 2022 Share Posted February 26, 2022 (edited) The video of destroyed column of Rosgvardia (Russian National Guard) near Kharkiv - more than 30 burned and abandoned vehicles - BTR, Tigr, armored truck Ural Federal, different KAMAZ, GAZ personnel carriers, tankers, utility vehicles etc. Looks like airstrike. https://www.facebook.com/100000828276750/videos/467193031727608 Edited February 26, 2022 by Haiduk 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vet 0369 Posted February 26, 2022 Share Posted February 26, 2022 1 minute ago, Chibot Mk IX said: That could be an explanation, but it doesn't seem very fit with traditional soviet military doctrine. You must achieve a clean breakthrough before send in the "elite" . So the first wave of the "Bullet Sponges" is better to be elite/crack. True, but perhaps Russian planners grossly underestimated the training, experience, arming, and will of the UKR military. The truism “you always plan to fight the last war you fought.” I’ve been around a long time, and that seems to apply to all military planners. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan/california Posted February 26, 2022 Share Posted February 26, 2022 1 hour ago, The_Capt said: Oh, I am not so sure, the generals have all the guns. The "spirited resistance of Kyiv" is making mainstream news now [I am noticing that mainstream news is about 6-12 hours behind the live feeds]. We will no this is really over when the NATO has to get assurances that Ukraine will not counter-attack into Russia. Of course a completely upside down Russia is not great either. A better problem than a triumphant Putin having himself crowned Czar, as his army marches on the Baltic states. The fact you can even make this joke implies that Putin's best case scenario is an endless quagmire in Ukraine, and all of the other outcomes are worse for him. Biden, Macron, and the new German Prime Minister whose name I can't spell need to get a planning group going on how to let the Russians down easy if Putin suffers a sudden severe case of lead poisoning, and the new Russian government wants to talk sense. History is turning on hinge in the Kiev suburbs, it would great if some good came out of this god awful mess. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chibot Mk IX Posted February 26, 2022 Share Posted February 26, 2022 2 hours ago, Bulletpoint said: This could explain it, but then again, surely this obvious problem would have been apparent to Russian military planners? Also, haven't the Russians fought other wars with this BTG system in place? Because.... Home before the leaves fall? Ukr will surrendered in 48 hours? the Donbass war in 2014 is a great success for Rus BTGs. But I remember they stopped in 50km. Its' kind of border skirmish in which the BTG structure is excellent at. It is not a deep operation . 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battlefront.com Posted February 26, 2022 Share Posted February 26, 2022 6 minutes ago, danfrodo said: What's amazing to me about all this is how incredibly stupid it is for Putin. He is dictator for life and there's no conceivable way that changes unless he does something that unites the people and the elites against him. So he decides to do the one thing that could leave him swinging from a lamp post. And for what? To own a super hostile, wrecked country and the eternal hate of most of the world? Clearly he is having issues w risk/benefit analysis. This is where the speculation about Putin's mental health kicks in. The Putin of 2014 backed down from quite a bit, quietly and without most people noticing. He only got stronger domestically because he didn't over extend. It was reasonable to think that would be the case this time around. Dictators get used to always being right because saying "yes" is a primary job requirement for those who work under him. As they get older the get more used to it. Also, underlying mental health issues tend to get worse as one ages. The more serious the mental problem, the more serious it gets. Putin is known as being paranoid, which is a really good thing for a KGB agent so that makes sense. Over time, as the paranoia gets worse, the number of people that are able to speak truth without getting into trouble shrinks as the contrarians are viewed with suspicion. Which feeds into the "I can do no wrong" false narrative. I have no idea how this applies to Putin specifically, but I think he is more likely similar to aging dictators than dissimilar. Steve 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danfrodo Posted February 26, 2022 Share Posted February 26, 2022 Haiduk's video is amazing. That is a huge number of destroyed russian vehicles, mostly supply and support. No wonder the logistics are crumbling. Maybe that's the way to fight. Hold the cities and attack the soft supply lines via back roads. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Probus Posted February 26, 2022 Author Share Posted February 26, 2022 MANPADS/Stingers at work: 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danfrodo Posted February 26, 2022 Share Posted February 26, 2022 Hopefully Ukranian ambushers were able to loot some good stuff from the vehicles that were abandoned, maybe medical supplies, hopefully lots of RPGs. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aragorn2002 Posted February 26, 2022 Share Posted February 26, 2022 (edited) If they hold out for a couple of days more, they will have Panzerfausts and Stingers. That will make a difference. Edited February 26, 2022 by Aragorn2002 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.