DAR - Snow For The Hungry AXIS PBEM

[Sgt.Squarehead]

Yup, I'm settling in on a deck-chair with my field glasses.....This is about to get shooty! 

Edited November 4, 2021 by Sgt.Squarehead

[Erwin]

17 hours ago, Monty's Mighty Moustache said:

18 hours ago, Erwin said:

I will probably focus everything on the town and only have recon forces probe elsewhere along with some AT assets to guard the flanks while the town assault is implemented.

Only after the town is safely occupied will substantial assault forces be allocated towards other objectives. 

My experience (in CM) is that focusing everything on one attack at a time is (usually) the key to winning (in CM games).  Attempting multiple attacks is (usually) not a good idea as it enables the oppo to focus on one's weaknesses.

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That’s pretty much my strategy, albeit the recon forces are quite sizeable

Thanks again for doing this and for the great pics, MMM.

Inspired by your DAR, am fighting this scenario vs the AI at 1 hour and 45 mins (15 mins completed) (so 47 minutes behind: MMM).  Am not planning to do any other attacks (only cautious recon along the flanks) until the town is fully "liberated". 

My judgement is that the RHS woods gap is a trap and right now, don't see good reason to attack on the right or the left flanks.  Sent a scout unit towards the center-right hand side direction and the 2 men got KIA by a tank.  They never saw or heard the tank so it must be one of those stealth Soviet tanks with the new thermal sights (eh...).

The 2 Panthers are sent to guard the right flank vs the Soviet tank.  Other recon units go up the left side of the map so that the Tigers and one Stug (one in reserve) can focus on the town and not worry about their flanks.  (Stugs are no so great cross country so am keeping them on roads as much as possible.) 

Town recon units have spotted two ATG's and some inf and an MG situated at the closest edge of the town.  Tigers coming up to kill them from max LOS positions so that (Inshallah) the ATG's may not even see them.  

[Monty's Mighty Moustache]

1 hour ago, Erwin said:

Thanks again for doing this and for the great pics, MMM.

Inspired by your DAR, am fighting this scenario vs the AI at 1 hour and 45 mins (15 mins completed) (so 47 minutes behind: MMM).  Am not planning to do any other attacks (only cautious recon along the flanks) until the town is fully "liberated". 

My judgement is that the RHS woods gap is a trap and right now, don't see good reason to attack on the right or the left flanks.  Sent a scout unit towards the center-right hand side direction and the 2 men got KIA by a tank.  They never saw or heard the tank so it must be one of those stealth Soviet tanks with the new thermal sights (eh...).

The 2 Panthers are sent to guard the right flank vs the Soviet tank.  Other recon units go up the left side of the map so that the Tigers and one Stug (one in reserve) can focus on the town and not worry about their flanks.  (Stugs are no so great cross country so am keeping them on roads as much as possible.) 

Town recon units have spotted two ATG's and some inf and an MG situated at the closest edge of the town.  Tigers coming up to kill them from max LOS positions so that (Inshallah) the ATG's may not even see them.  

Great stuff, you'll have to do your own AAR when you're finished  I think you'll overtake me pretty soon, we're averaging about 1 - 2 turns per day at the moment.

MMM

[Monty's Mighty Moustache]

I'm a curious chap and I noticed the entry holes in the fence bordering the road that where the armour may have come through to the objective (left hand side under the red arrow - one of them is just visible).

I wondered "were those holes there when the scenario started" and I know it's gamey but I fired up a single player game and lo and behold the fence was intact. So when did he arrive because they did not disappear in this turn?

I still have a few saves from previous turns on my hard drive so I loaded them up. Those vehicles have been sitting in that field since the fifty-second minute - 6 minutes before he moved them. Hmmmm, what was the delay I wonder? Was he waiting for something else to arrive? The mystery!

MMM

Edited November 4, 2021 by Monty's Mighty Moustache

[Bulletpoint]

1 hour ago, Monty's Mighty Moustache said:

Those vehicles have been sitting in that field since the fifty-second minute - 6 minutes before he moved them. Hmmmm, what was the delay I wonder?

Waiting for permission from the commissar?

[Monty's Mighty Moustache]

5 hours ago, Bulletpoint said:

Waiting for permission from the commissar?

Haha perhaps, I didn't see any flares go up.

MMM

[George MC]

Excellent

[danfrodo]

thanks MontyMM for putting this out there.  Lots of work but lots of enjoyment for the rest of us.  I can't help but wonder if there's some nasty surprise back there somewhere.

[Erwin]

Am playing vs the AI WEGO on Elite around the 1 hr 30 min mark (30 minutes completed) so...

 

*** possibly some spoilers ***

 

Firstly the AI is giving a good game.  Very hard to winkle the Soviets out of the town.  Three ATG's died easily after causing minor damage to a couple of tanks.  Then all 3 Tigers one Panther and one Stug plus 3 of the 5 HMG's and several HT's firing at buildings held by Soviet troops.  But, the inf seem too often able to survive 88mm HE hits.  Using a lot of HE.  You think they're all KIA and then some brave sod starts firing again.  Tanks at about 2/3 HE ammo left.  

Right flank is protected by a couple Schrecks and a couple HMG's backed up by some HT's and one of the Panthers.  Killed a couple T-34/85's that tried to attack that flank.

On the extreme left flank have been cautiously reconning up the road.  No contact until the T-junction reached.  Then a T-34/85 comes barreling down the road then turns to threaten the town assault.  Tried to ambush it with the reserve Stug left on that flank.  But, the Stug gets ambushed instead and KIA.  The first German tank casualty.  Will have to redeploy a couple of Tigers from the town assault to meet this new threat.  

Still have all of the third platoon minus its 3 HMG's in reserve.

 

 

[Sgt.Squarehead]

3 hours ago, Erwin said:

*** possibly some spoilers ***

Dude.....FFS! 

[Erwin]

Yes, FFS he's 15+ minutes ahead of me and may well have already encountered the issues listed.  That's why it says "possible spoilers" as a warning.  

[Monty's Mighty Moustache]

It’s OK, as soon as I saw the spoiler warning I didn’t read it, no harm done. As long as you’re having fun @Erwinall’s good from my side although others may not want anything spoiled either. Hopefully they skipped it too

MMM

Edited November 5, 2021 by Monty's Mighty Moustache

[Sgt.Squarehead]

23 minutes ago, Erwin said:

Yes, FFS he's 15+ minutes ahead of me and may well have already encountered the issues listed.  That's why it says "possible spoilers" as a warning.

Threads are free.....If you were to say your piece in a new one, then there's NO chance of f**king anyone's enjoyment of this one up, is there? 

[chuckdyke]

My piece if it is DAR I don't comment anymore just read it. 

[Chip76]

On 10/15/2021 at 7:12 AM, Monty's Mighty Moustache said:

Thanks, glad you're enjoying it. I know what you mean about the mystery, it's like fighting at night but spotting is probably even worse as the wind and blizzard are making hearing things difficult too (I presume this is modelled). I think, much like night fighting, it will erupt into violent firefights when contact is made and muzzle flashes start giving positions away. 

MMM

     I would imagine that spotting muzzle flashes would prove very difficult in a snowy environment.  The snow reflects every bit of light & renders shadows pretty much gone.  This combined with the overcast sky & movement of a blizzard.

     Put this in combination with the way that snow absorbs sound.  Maybe it could help eliminate some of the sound reflecting around as much.

     I don't know how Battlefront models this & it would depend on how wet or frozen the battlefield is as well.  Fun to think about.

 

Still really enjoying your DAR.

 - Chip

[Chip76]

On 9/27/2021 at 7:46 AM, Monty's Mighty Moustache said:

Hans dropped a cigarette and burnt a hole in his trousers but mostly there's just a lot of grumbling.

Haha  He was smokin' Marlboros.  The cherry fell out.

[Erwin]

MMM's wonderful DAR and pics inspired me to see how effective the AI plan works vs playing a human.  (Is anyone else actually playing this xnt scenario?  Am continually surprised that folks seem to prefer reading DAR's than actually playing the game.) 

Am posting my vs AI game in parallel to what MMM is doing vs a human.  Playing vs the AI is obviously a lot faster.  

Overall, it seems like the AI plan has been well-designed to give the player surprises and challenges. 

 

***** Possible Spoilers *****

 

Am now at 1 hour 20 minutes (40 minutes played).  The T34 attack on the left flank caused some panic and necessitated pulling back a Tiger.  However, the T-34 became static and the Tiger soon hunted it down.  One of the challenges of AI plans is that units tend to move to their end spot and then sit there.  If the T-34 had kept moving it could have been a major PITA in the German rear.

The Soviets in the town are starting to surrender so probably it will be secured in the next 5-10 turns.  Located and killed 3 ATG's and one AAA unit and many MG's.  They were not problem for the Tigers or Panthers.  It seemed that leading with the tanks and blasting any enemy as they were spotted while leaving the inf safely in the rear or on HT's was the way to go.  Maybe 15 or so friendly inf casualties so far - many from friendly fire or harassing enemy arty fire.  Still have an entire company in reserve.  However, tank ammo may be an issue for future attacks as tanks now have less than 2/3 HE load.

 

[snarre]

Ervin ? why you dont make your own topic .

[Monty's Mighty Moustache]

7 hours ago, Erwin said:

Am posting my vs AI game in parallel to what MMM is doing vs a human.  Playing vs the AI is obviously a lot faster. 

The problem with that @Erwin is that while you may be behind me in time you may have seen more of the enemy forces than me so when you post updates you may be spoiling things for others (I am purposefully not reading your updates just in case).

This DAR is up to date, I know exactly as much as I’ve written about on here so if I haven’t mentioned it then I don’t know about it. I’d prefer there only be one DAR/AAR on the go at once tbh but if you are going to continue be aware that anything you write about stuff I have not yet revealed is likely to spoil it for those reading along, hence why they are getting annoyed. Perhaps it would be best to start your own?

MMM

[Sgt.Squarehead]

What a selfish ***** he really is. 

[BFCElvis]

12 hours ago, Erwin said:

MMM's wonderful DAR and pics inspired me to see how effective the AI plan works vs playing a human.  (Is anyone else actually playing this xnt scenario?  Am continually surprised that folks seem to prefer reading DAR's than actually playing the game.) 

Am posting my vs AI game in parallel to what MMM is doing vs a human.  Playing vs the AI is obviously a lot faster.  

Overall, it seems like the AI plan has been well-designed to give the player surprises and challenges. 

 

***** Possible Spoilers *****

 

Am now at 1 hour 20 minutes (40 minutes played).  The T34 attack on the left flank caused some panic and necessitated pulling back a Tiger.  However, the T-34 became static and the Tiger soon hunted it down.  One of the challenges of AI plans is that units tend to move to their end spot and then sit there.  If the T-34 had kept moving it could have been a major PITA in the German rear.

The Soviets in the town are starting to surrender so probably it will be secured in the next 5-10 turns.  Located and killed 3 ATG's and one AAA unit and many MG's.  They were not problem for the Tigers or Panthers.  It seemed that leading with the tanks and blasting any enemy as they were spotted while leaving the inf safely in the rear or on HT's was the way to go.  Maybe 15 or so friendly inf casualties so far - many from friendly fire or harassing enemy arty fire.  Still have an entire company in reserve.  However, tank ammo may be an issue for future attacks as tanks now have less than 2/3 HE load.

 

Yeah, you should probably start your own thread. Unless there was some demand for you to post a parallel AAR, I can see how people will find it distracting.  

[Erwin]

Fair enough.  I had thought it would be interesting for players to see how two approaches to the same scenario would play out.  (I would have found that interesting anyway.)  The easiest and most efficient way to do that is to post in the same thread and give "spoiler warnings".  It's a shame there are so few threads that deal with strategy and tactics in the CM2 game as opposed to the numerous technical issues re equipment accuracy etc.  

 

[BFCElvis]

2 hours ago, Erwin said:

Fair enough.  I had thought it would be interesting for players to see how two approaches to the same scenario would play out.  (I would have found that interesting anyway.)  The easiest and most efficient way to do that is to post in the same thread and give "spoiler warnings".  It's a shame there are so few threads that deal with strategy and tactics in the CM2 game as opposed to the numerous technical issues re equipment accuracy etc.  

 

It would be interesting. Maybe the solution is to start your own thread and link here to new posts as they come out. Or, write up your AAR and post it here at the conclusion of MMM's posts. That would avoid this:

 

Quote

The problem with that @Erwin is that while you may be behind me in time you may have seen more of the enemy forces than me so when you post updates you may be spoiling things for others (I am purposefully not reading your updates just in case).

 

[Monty's Mighty Moustache]

The Sixtieth Minute

A surprisingly quiet minute, this will be a quick update.

Objective ROT

The situation at the end of last turn:

The panzers are rearranging. The Panthers were over on the right flank, I'm moving them up next to the Tigers and I've opened them all up, there was that much fire flying around that it was easier just to keep them buttoned. They should be fine now I have fire superiority.

One of the Panthers has "issues" and is not in position by the end of the turn.

The infantry are holding position right now. The advanced troops get a new spot on what looks like an infantry squad in a building in sector D that had a Maxim in it. Have these guys just arrived in the AO perchance?

Over at the assault the infantry hold position while I bring the Tiger Zugfuhrer negotiates all the SPWs in its path.

1st zug are dismounting. The advance will continue next turn.

He moves the leftmost armour contact up, but not so far as to dare poking his nose out.

The other one appears to perhaps move at the end of the turn but I'm not sure if it's just the contact marker moving as it does.

The situation at the end of the turn (I've added my guys in as I realised they are now in the area shown on the diagram):

KT4

I pull the StuG back and start boarding some of the infantry on the SPWs, leaving a skirmish line out front with the two panzerschrek teams just in case anything with tracks comes flying down the highway. I'm going to send a SPW off to take out that pesky AT rifle team member that is still hanging on. He's getting intel from him and it also means I can keep an eye on the side of the trees in case he tries to sneak any tanks down there to fire on my left flank (will do a screenshot next time).

SITMAP

Now the Tiger has joined the infantry of 1 Ko. I'll start the push into the objective. It looks like he may have his armour there as security but we'll see if they move again next turn.

At KT4 I'm keeping the fire up on the trees and will let the infantry get on board and then move out to take out that AT guy.

MMM

[MOS:96B2P]

+1.  More interesting stuff. 

Do you have an SOP for when you dismount your halftracks?  Maybe so many meters away from the OPFOR or one terrain feature away etc.  

I'm often conflicted about if I should unbutton a WW2 tank (except in a tank on tank fight) since it may result in the loss of the TC and with him the binoculars.  I've come to a kind of compromise.  If possible I leave the HQ tanks buttoned and tanks I am using for area fire.  The others can be opened for targets of opportunity and the possibility of OPFOR tanks showing up.